Not sure if my plants are sick or not

[sirgrassalot]

When the lights turn on. At lights on. Not when the lights have been on. Hope that helps. It pays to read it correctly, maybe English is a second language for you?
You'd really be in a fix at 24 on. LoL
Watch the bulbs.

 

[MPL]

No wonder there were burns on my plants. I foliar fed at what was probably the equivalent of the plant's high noon. There was (and still a little bit) some residue on the leaves. I won't be doing that again.

My humidity is under control for sure, so I will foliar, if I do it again, before the dark.

Thanks Dirt!



I should also add that when I got home from work today my plants were showing a good bit of new growth and were looking a lot better. I really think they were starving. I bet the burns were caused by the concentration of the Mg and CalMag on the leaves due to the H2O evaporating off really fast. So, I ended up with starved and nute burned plants at the same time. At least, I believe this is the case.

In any case they appear to have improved quite a bit. They're slightly droopy now and the soil is kinda dry so time to water with plain H2O. Tomorrow I will feed again at the same strength I did yesterday.

Do you guys think the damage to the plants is going to permanently affect them? I hope not.

Thanks again!

Never use a foliar when the lights are on!!! When the lights are on, the water in the spray will evaporate quickly, concentrating the solution in spots on your leaves and causing burn.

The best time to foliar is about an hour before the lights turn on, or (if your humidity is under control) at the beginning of the dark cycle. This allows time for the plants to absorb the nutrients that you are applying without burning the leaves.


Pretty much just do the opposite of whatever sirblabsalot says, and you'll probably have the happiest plants you've ever grown. :wink:

 

[MPL]

Oh yeah, they're on a 20/4 light/dark schedule.

 

[MynameStitch]

Any affected leaves that were damaged are not going to recover, this is for your situation.

 

[Guest]

When fert concentration (salts - not table salt) in the soil is too high, higher than in the plant, water moves from plant to soil and mimics underwatering, but it is not from that. This is why your lawn burns when you dump a spot of fert on it.

BTW, you can LST them now (or as soon as they recover). Start bending and training them now, no need to wait. Plants bend best when they are thirsty.

Isn't nutrient levels almost always higher in the soil then in the plant?

Also why do they bend better when thirsty?

 

[sirgrassalot]

MPL it's little things like that you don't forget which makes you the more experienced grower. Congrats if you have your grow in check now. Remember I use no magic bullets, really hard to mess up. The plants love it.
I would compare freshly watered Cannabis with fresh celery easily snapped but when dried out a little it's quite flexable. The water in the stems make them brittle. Don't bend after waterings.

 

[MPL]

I really think this would have gone better if I had picked better clones from the beginning. Trying to figure out what was wrong with the plants was difficult because there were so many different things going on.

I'll have some pics up tonight. I am taking some now but have to get to work.

MPL it's little things like that you don't forget which makes you the more experienced grower. Congrats if you have your grow in check now. Remember I use no magic bullets, really hard to mess up. The plants love it.
I would compare freshly watered Cannabis with fresh celery easily snapped but when dried out a little it's quite flexable. The water in the stems make them brittle. Don't bend after waterings.

 

[MPL]

Alrighty, here are some pics. These were taken this morning, around 15 hours ago.

Whaddya think?

 

[MPL]

Oh, the curling almost completely straightened out after I fed them a couple of days ago.

 

[sirgrassalot]

They're looking great, amazing when you look back at your other pictures. Keep it simple & you'll be harvesting in no time.

 

[MPL]

Man that is exactly what I needed to hear. They look even better today with lots of new growth. I'm going to give them a few more days then I'll start pruning off the dying/dead/necrotic growth.

Should I be concerned about hermies or anything from the past few weeks of stress? I just need to keep an eye out for any male preflowers and cut those off right?

I'm hoping I can get them to grow 2cm - 3cm a day so I can start flowering them in a couple of weeks. I'm already a month behind in their veg, but I guess that's how you learn. In a way I'm glad they had so many issues when I got them. It's taught me a lot in a short amount of time.

We'll see how they look in a week or two and then we'll know for sure how their recovery is going.

Thanks so much to everyone for their advice so far!

They're looking great, amazing when you look back at your other pictures. Keep it simple & you'll be harvesting in no time.

 

[MynameStitch]

They are looking a lot better mPL that they are bro!
The plants are stretching there leaves outmore and they have lots more vigor than they did before!

 

[MPL]

Alrighty, another update. I trained them down a day or two ago and they're bushing out even more than they were. They are starting to look a bit droopy and they are both getting yellow/orange tips. Maybe I'm underfeeding them? Also some of the leaves are starting to curl under. I'm giving 1/4 tsp. per 1 gallon of RO/DI water every other day, with plain water in between feedings. pH going in is still around 6.3. I haven't checked the runoff in quite awhile.

I'm going to transplant to 2 gallon pots in about 10 days.

So, what do you guys think? I think overall they're much improved.

 

[MynameStitch]

How often are you feeding? everytime you water?

How often are you watering?
What is the dosage you are using, what is DI?

Looks like you may be feeding them too much. Feeding every watering is not good, salts buildup in the mixture from left over stuff the plants did not use.

You should always try to alternate water/feed/water/feed

If you can't do it that way you can do this feed/feed/water/feed/feed/water

So alternate every other other feedings with plain water.
Are you giving them any micronutrients?
I can't tell if it's from lockout or deficient until I know more information......
in the 4th picture I see possible potassium/calcium problem occuring and newer growths are coming out incorrect coloring which indicant either a micronutrient lockout or deficiency, lockout due to either pH or over feeding.

You need to test your pH before you do anything else, water and collect it at the bottom of the pots and test before you do anything else, don't feed anymore either until you test the pH.

 

[HeadyPete]

Isn't nutrient levels almost always higher in the soil then in the plant?

Also why do they bend better when thirsty?

While the nutrient levels are usually higher in the soil, the plant's roots still take up water and nutrients. When that level crosses a threshold, from overfeeding, the plant cannot compete with the force of the water moving to the area of higher salt concentration, or lower water concentration. This is called osmosis.

The plant's cells are made up of water and when there is a lack of water, the cell walls become flaccid and stems become more flexible.

 

[MPL]

I put all the answers to this in the last post.

I don't feed every day. I feed every other day. I water with plain water in between. DI = DeIonized. 1/4 tsp. per gallon, every other day. GH MaxiGro. So, I'm doing feed/water/feed/water. Growth has been quite slow the past week.

I tried a 1/2 tsp. per gallon dose yesterday and the plants seem a bit better for it.

As far as micronutrients go I thought the GH was fairly complete. I don't have any micros outside of CalMag. I do have Dark Energy and Supernova. Dark Energy is 2-0-0 and Supernova is 2-2-2.

I checked the runoff last night before I fed them. The pH is right around 6.6 or so.

Thanks as always for the great advice!

How often are you feeding? everytime you water?

How often are you watering?
What is the dosage you are using, what is DI?

Looks like you may be feeding them too much. Feeding every watering is not good, salts buildup in the mixture from left over stuff the plants did not use.

You should always try to alternate water/feed/water/feed

If you can't do it that way you can do this feed/feed/water/feed/feed/water

So alternate every other other feedings with plain water.
Are you giving them any micronutrients?
I can't tell if it's from lockout or deficient until I know more information......
in the 4th picture I see possible potassium/calcium problem occuring and newer growths are coming out incorrect coloring which indicant either a micronutrient lockout or deficiency, lockout due to either pH or over feeding.

You need to test your pH before you do anything else, water and collect it at the bottom of the pots and test before you do anything else, don't feed anymore either until you test the pH.

 

[MynameStitch]

See the problem is they both have vitamins and minerals...... I would use one or the other, not both. a buildup can cause issues very quickly to that of superthrive, even though there is more stuff in there, cannabis does not like high levels of vitamins and minerals it does something to the plant I do not know...... but it causes growth and nutrient absorption issues.

Because of the nature of these products and how strong they are; they should be used wisely rather than like a regular nutrient solution. People use them because of the other beneficial stuff in there, but there is also the vitamin and mineral content they do not take in account for, so you are giving your plant and overdose.

Are you using the dark energy and the supernova?
I am not saying that is your problem now, I am just letting you know about them.

If you did not tie them down, how tall would they be?

 

[MPL]

Ok, I see what you're saying.

I am not using the Dark Energy or Supernova yet. I'm trying to feed carefully as I don't want to stress the plants. They've just really recovered ya know.

I tied them down when they hit 5". They would probably be 6.5" now. The growth over the last 7 days has been a lot slower than the growth for the 7 days previous to them. They were showing what looked to me like signs of NPK deficiencies, and since the pH was fine and they weren't overwatered I thought they might not have enough nutrients. The symptoms I'm seeing now are much like the last ones they had before, and those were all deficiency related.

I plan on repotting in about 10 days so do not want to go nuts with the LST.

I am very happy the growth is dense and the node spacing is really short. Apparently my CMH is working out nicely.

At least they are looking a lot better than they were a couple of weeks ago.

See the problem is they both have vitamins and minerals...... I would use one or the other, not both. a buildup can cause issues very quickly to that of superthrive, even though there is more stuff in there, cannabis does not like high levels of vitamins and minerals it does something to the plant I do not know...... but it causes growth and nutrient absorption issues.

Because of the nature of these products and how strong they are; they should be used wisely rather than like a regular nutrient solution. People use them because of the other beneficial stuff in there, but there is also the vitamin and mineral content they do not take in account for, so you are giving your plant and overdose.

Are you using the dark energy and the supernova?
I am not saying that is your problem now, I am just letting you know about them.

If you did not tie them down, how tall would they be?

 

[MynameStitch]

Ok, first I would stop using DI water and use tap water, they are suffering from lack of bnutrients and some nutrients are needed for a balance for others to work, so stop using DI and use tap water.
Why are you not using it? Is it too hard? It would have to be over 250ppm for it to be too hard to use for growing.

 

[MPL]

I don't know what the ppm of the tap water is. I do know I have very, very little waste water from the RO/DI unit. The pH is around 7.2 - 7.4 straight from the faucet. It takes less than 1/4 tsp of GH pH down to bring a full gallon to the low 6.x range.

I might have the money for a decent pH meter next week to replace the strips I'm using. I have great eyes and have double-checked my pH with a friends meter. Is a combo pH/EC/PPM meter much more? If not I'll grab one and test my tap water. I'm usually not off more than .2 or .3 with the strips, and often I'm <.2 off, so it's not a huge concern of mine yet.

What about the chlorine? I don't have a container to premix in (yet) so I mix my water and/or nutrients right before I'm about to use it. I guess I can remix directly after I use some water and then let it sit for 24 hours to evaporate the chorline... Do you recommend any particular digital pH meter or combo pH/PPM meter?

Thanks, as always, for the great advice Stitch! What micronutrient would you recommend to use in conjunction with the nutes I have now? What's the best way/dose to use with it? What about during flowering?

Ok, first I would stop using DI water and use tap water, they are suffering from lack of bnutrients and some nutrients are needed for a balance for others to work, so stop using DI and use tap water.
Why are you not using it? Is it too hard? It would have to be over 250ppm for it to be too hard to use for growing.