Nitty-gritty on true organics Qs

[Nifty]

a

 

[Ganico]

Silicates are found in clay, if you're doing outdoors. There's also "mica" which is a silicate mineral. Depending on where you live, it may be fairly easy to find in nature.

As far as PH goes, just use some dolomite lime.

 

[petal]

advanced nutrients

do a wetting agent called Wet Betty .

it comes in two versions , one organic .

 

[petal]

General Hydroponics

have a product caled Mineral Magic

Natural Silicon

Mineral Magic contains ancient seabed deposits of biologically transformed organic matter, plus naturally formed silicic acid clay. The broad spectrum of elements in it stimulates beneficial microorganisms to grow in the root zone further enhancing a natural environment to healthier plant growth. This naturally soluble form of silicon also assists the plant against disease and insect attack. Naturally occurring colloids improve caton exchange thus enhancing nutrient availability.

 

[gromer]

Hey brutha cool thread and nice post.Yeh Ive put some serious thought into this as well and I came to the conclusion that it like the others things mentioned can be found in nature although the products are produced by man.I use potassium silicate and have noticed no ill effects on my living organics soil structure.As far as a surfectant the before mentioned Wet Betty organic is hard to beat.I use it in all my foliars and I love it,the plants love it.Its all around good stuff.Dont know of any other products like it so thats what id reccomend.Good luck and good growing,glad you found your way back to the organic luv.Its the only way to be!!

 

[Nifty]

a

 

[Nifty]

a

 

[gromer]

Fulvic acid all natural ph down.Best there is and wont fry your microlife doesnt take much a little does alot.When I r/o my water 5 mils per 5 gallons brings me from 7.7 to 6.3 just like that.If its tap it takes a little more like 20 mils pr 5 gallons but thats due to ph resistanc from the minerals in the water.That and add some dolomite lime to the soil to buffer and bring it to 7 and your golden.Plants will eat like mofos so watch out.Once your ph is in the correct range buds will get HUGE!!What a difference the little things make.Hope this helps.Peace ,Gromerr Pott!!!

 

[Nifty]

a

 

[gromer]

Hmmm sorted,that means youve got it taken care of,figured out right?And Cheers is a friendly greeting or a goodbye.Kinda like Aloha in Hawaii is it not?You must be from the UK,right?I read Weed World all the time,religiously so I kinda use the surrounding text to decipher some of the terms and sland you guys use deciphered.Im proud to say cus of that mag I now know wellies are rubber boots and a jumper I believe is a shirt.Cant say Ive yet to figure out what a bifter is,maybe you could shed some light on that one.LOL!!So cool I can talk with folks from different continents on here,god love the internet.Cool man Im glad yer happy with the info.Sounds like you are just as goofy about organics as I am.Shame you guys dont have the same plethora of organic goodies readily available to you as we do.Prolly general hydro fulvic acid will be what youll be able to get right?

 

[billyba79]

great info

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The minerals you are talking about using are inorganic salts... Epsoms, dolomite, etc...
The ionic elements that plants uptake from any source are Identical... your 'refer madness from chem fert's' theory makes no sense, if you understand how plant's uptake nutrients...

Here's a great thread on understanding these mineral salts, and nutrients derived from chemical salts...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=64696

 

[Relik]

Inorganic salts such as Epsom salts or Dolomite lime appear naturally in nature, we need Mg and pH buffering so I see no problem using them in an organic grow. They are some of the few non-carbon based (inorganic) essential additives used in organic growing.

Peace

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Inorganic salts such as Epsom salts or Dolomite lime appear naturally in nature, we need Mg and pH buffering so I see no problem using them in an organic grow. They are some of the few non-carbon based (inorganic) essential additives used in organic growing.

Peace

Exactly... Inorganic salts occur naturally, and can be useful in an organic grow.
As long as the salts are not too highly concentrated, they can't cause any problems... Same thing with the synthesized versions of these naturally occurring compounds...

I really agree with you guys that properly grown organic weed is superb, but really feel that anyone who thinks there is something different or unnatural about cannabis grown with salt ferts is uninformed as to the processes involved in plant growth, and has not smoked properly grown 'inorganic' pot...

 

[gromer]

Smoked tons of herb from hundreds of sources.Full on chem,Fifty fity,Organic hydro etc..etc..and organics done in living soil are the best hands down and I guaruntee theres peeps here thatll back me up on that one.As far as the salt based ferts in a living enviroments thing is concerned I have researched and studied endlessly on the topic.Im good bros with Rev the writer from Skunk mag who is a pro on the topic.We agree that salts and bennies can co exist to a degree in a water enviroment BUT putting salts from somthing like say Grow Big from Fox Farm into a living soil enviroment wtll fry your microlife,trash your yield and basically ruin the herb.Can good ganja be grown using Fox Farm liquids on a soiless mix?Of course,Ive done it.Hell lots of folks do.But will the herb be any where near as exquisite as what I produce in a living medium?Hell no!!And when I say salts alot of peeps tweak on that because in an essence everything is salt,we are salt...million year old carbon.But as Ive said there are salts that exist in the ground already...ia.the lime and espom salts you are saying are man made.Well they are but the elements they are made up of already are in the ground.They just arent in soiless mix.Therefore I add them.Dont understand how a plant eats?Heh!! I understand exactly how they eat and they actually are not very good at it at all.Not half as good as the beasties that can do it for them.When a plant is in my soil it does nothing. all normal eating functions go on standby while its simply spoon fed by the billions of micro farmers I have working for me 24-7.In this relaxed state plants can spend their time doing what plants should be doing like building massive buds and endless resin to protect itself from the elements and insects.You of all people with a name like GratefulHed I would think would be at the forefront of this organic movement,and realize that millions of years of mother nature cant be wrong.Put the plants own natural ability to process nutrients up against the microcolonies ability to process it for them and the microherd wins every time.Ill agree that the best yields out there come from fifty fifty chem organic and hydro organic is a close second to living soil but for pure mother nature grown under HIDs inside Im gonna stick to my dirt farming.Wow now we gots ourselves a organics discussion going.By the way Hed I heard rumors of a Casey Jones re release is that really gonna happen that was one of the biggest yielding best smokin diesel hybrids Ive had the pleasure to grow.But like a fool lost,my bro is tryin to run down clones from those that had some donated but it looks grimm.Hopefully its more than just a rumor.So the GratefulHed man is a partial chem grower?Coulda sworn with the Dead reference youd be organics to an extreme,guess you cannot judge a book by their cover.Peace,Gromerr pott!!

 

[petal]

glad to have been of some help nifty

pulling a seat up for the G v G , organic V inorganic showdown
:smile:

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

No worries gromer... I used to be all organic, untill I learned how to properly grow with inorganic salts... and the realities of the science behind growing with them... I know there are alot of people with a religious fanaticism about organics... Having similar experiences as yourself and having smoked tons of herb grown different ways, and after growint it many different ways, I'll stand by what I have said... If you kill your microlife with a salt then you over salted.

Your statements show that you don't know how a plant eats.

Heh!! I understand exactly how they eat and they actually are not very good at it at all.Not half as good as the beasties that can do it for them.When a plant is in my soil it does nothing. all normal eating functions go on standby while its simply spoon fed by the billions of micro farmers I have working for me 24-7.

See...

The way a plant eats is by exchanging A cation from the surface of the root hair, with a cation in the medium...

It makes NO difference to the plant if that cation was the result of a salt dissociating in a polar solution, or if that cation was the result of a Micro-Farmer releasing it from an organic compound...

Put the plants own natural ability to process nutrients up against the microcolonies ability to process it for them and the microherd wins every time.

Plants eat very efficiently, when the element's are available to them...

In most organics the nutrients are simply not available to the plant until released by organisms through natural processes...

In most salts the nutrients are simply not available to the plant unless the salt is disolved in a polar solution (water), which is also a natural process...

You make element's available through processes carried out by microbes...
I make element's available by providing them in proper ratio and concentration in their ionic state...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

...Hell no!!And when I say salts alot of peeps tweak on that because in an essence everything is salt,we are salt...million year old carbon.But as Ive said there are salts that exist in the ground already...ia.the lime and espom salts you are saying are man made.Well they are but the elements they are made up of already are in the ground.... ....By the way Hed I heard rumors of a Casey Jones re release is that really gonna happen that was one of the biggest yielding best smokin diesel hybrids Ive had the pleasure to grow.But like a fool lost,my bro is tryin to run down clones from those that had some donated but it looks grimm.Hopefully its more than just a rumor.So the GratefulHed man is a partial chem grower?Coulda sworn with the Dead reference youd be organics to an extreme,guess you cannot judge a book by their cover.Peace,Gromerr pott!!

Yup... more than a rumor... There will be a few more packs up in the next few days.... and plenty more in 45 days or so...

 

[gromer]

Yay!!Casey Jones will be drivin his train round again.Ill have to snatch another pack or two this time.Reguardless of understanding and the amazing use of jargon I still am stickin to my dirt that walks and talks.Just how I am ,yeh its prolly more of a hippy thing or whatever but thats who I am.Not tryin to get anybody to do what I do and not saying anyone is wrong for doing things differently just tryin to spread the word of organics.Love the stuff cant get enough the more involved the better.Thank you for the lesson on plant system functions.But I still am stikn to my dirt.Were the EXACT same parents used for the re release of Casey Jones?Meaning has the same daddy or pollen been held over to do this batch of seeds?Just curious been buyin some oltime faves lately to find that different genetics were used and in an essence they no longer are what they were.Was hoping with this one that wasnt the case.Man I saw the G13 Diesel on weekend special too thats another one Im famous for scrapping b4 it was properly tested.Only to find that it was dank as hell and a HUGE yielder after the mum had already been run.Oh well I guess I will live and learn.Thanxx Hed!!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yes... Same parents...

I love organic pot, and I would not have anyone to switch because of anything I've said... I love properly grown pot, period... I think organics are a great way to achieve that... I also think proper 'inorganic' is every bit as good... also note that by proper I do not necessarily mean according to bottle instructions, and believe a bit of the potential yield has to be sacrificed in favor of flavor... Growing with salts, pushing the plants for maximum yield, will never produce buds which equal organic buds in flavor... But lower concentrations and proper flushing produce a finished product as clean and tasty as any organic I've smoked...

Thanks for the kudos as well...