Nicotiana rustica

[Guest]

that's not true at all
after a very short period of using poppies for a few days in a row you can develop a real addiction.

and it's a whole variety of substances you're getting addicted to, as they obviously aren't refined.
serious business.

hey Grenouille,

interested to know on what you are basing that opinion

I have known many heroin addicts, have lived in SE Asia, and also know several people who work with junkies

you are the first person who I have heard claim that it possible to develop an opium addiction that quickly

Namkha

 

[mriko]

after a very short period of using poppies for a few days in a row you can develop a real addiction.

and it's a whole variety of substances you're getting addicted to, as they obviously aren't refined.
serious business.

heh ? absolutely not. in a few days it's impossible. Even with the best quality white sugar you don't get hooked in a matter of days. But it is easy to IMAGINE that you need it, that you're hooked (and being wrong actually).

And no, it's not "a whole variety of susbstances" you get hooked on. This whole variety of susbtances makes the addiction to come much slower than with the refined product (heroin, morphine, codein). Last time I was in Pakistan I did opium for about a month and half, with a bit of white and brown. Although I was a bit tired afterwards, I would not call that in anyway withdrawal symptoms.

Irie !

 

[robobond]

there are no addictive substances, only weak minds prone to addiction.

Irie !

Tell that to people who have used meth. And outside of psychologically addictive substaces there are substances to which withdraw can lead to dealth such as alcohol. Though most substaces are merely psychologically addicting(marijuana, nicotine even cocaine) with only a few being physically addicting(alcohol ect). But substances that are indeed phsically addicting are more than mind over matter in quitting them. Though pschological dependance develops first.

 

[Guest]

once you are addicted to meth it will fuck you up royally

that is not the same thing as meth being readily addictive

getting addicted to meth requires the kind of regular use that would already be fucking your life up anyway, as well your personality

the real danger with speed is not the addiction so much as the possibility of psychosis and other forms of personality disorder

a friend of mine did a stint in a mental hospital largely because of speed use

also, mrico is absolutely right in what he says about heroin and opium


Namkha

 

[Guest]

Thats about one of the dumbest things ive read Tom Cruise

understood correctly, it is entirely true


Namkha, aka Blazing John Wayne


edit: talk of distinctions between psychological and physical addiction is generally not that helpful I don't think

edit edit: as anyone who does a lot of travelling and takes a lot of drugs knows, "addiction" and habit are highly context dependent

 

[Guest]

the only people I have known personally (or indeed read of, or heard of) who have become addicted to opium have said that it took them several months of regular use, getting on for a year or more

this is what I mean by it takes effort, the effort being to reach a stage wherein your self control is genuinely compromised

the same applies with heroin, crack etc.

addiction has, as I said, been mythologised - in some cases to the point of deluding people about what they are themselves experiencing

one of the worst effects of this has been to distract from the genuine social problems underpinning the communites/areas afflicted by genuine addiction problems

if you look at a map of areas affected with heroin addiction in the UK, they will be exactly the same communities that are low income, generally sink estates and and at the bottom of the heap for education, healthcare etc etc.

it's not heroin etc. we should be demonising, it's the twats who knowingly scew society agains the have-nots and voiceless people of the world in order to keep making themselves fat and rich


Namkha

 

[Ruosk]

Nice amount of strains available at tobaccoseeds.co.uk.. Any tasty and easy suggestions for my first tobacco grow? Thanks..

 

[robobond]

once you are addicted to meth it will fuck you up royally

that is not the same thing as meth being readily addictive

getting addicted to meth requires the kind of regular use that would already be fucking your life up anyway, as well your personality

the real danger with speed is not the addiction so much as the possibility of psychosis and other forms of personality disorder

a friend of mine did a stint in a mental hospital largely because of speed use

also, mrico is absolutely right in what he says about heroin and opium


Namkha

Getting addicted to meth does not require regular use. Merely using it once or twice can lead into a pattern of addiction. Same with cocaine. Once coke starts wearing off you feeling the need to do more due to crashing. However meth is certainly one of the worst out there in addiction. It changes your brain chemistry and there is nothing to do about it except extensive treatment and in some cases thats not even enough. IMO if you don't want to get addicted do not use addictive substances like coke, meth or heroin. And/or if you have an addictive personality don't use drugs at all. But even people without addictive personalitys become addicted to meth and cigarettes.

 

[Guest]

the mere fact that using meth twice "can lead into an addiction" is not the same things as saying as it necessarily does

I am speaking from experience of living in Bangkok and Thailand generally, (as well as Tokyo) and in communities which had yaba (ya-bah crazy medicine - meth) problems

is it perhaps the very same people who project such causal potency onto the side of the drug as become addicted

it is simply not the case that one's volition is instantaneously sapped in the manner you suggest

it is the power of myth that amazes me!

Namkha

 

[Guest]

hey Rousk,

I have only grown Nicotian rustica, which I bought from Chiltern seeds if I remember right

it is good and potent

I would be tempted by Virginia or Havana
there were loads of nice looking strains on that site eh

Namkha

 

[robobond]

the mere fact that using meth twice "can lead into an addiction" is not the same things as saying as it necessarily does

I am speaking from experience of living in Bangkok and Thailand generally, (as well as Tokyo) and in communities which had yaba (ya-bah crazy medicine - meth) problems

is it perhaps the very same people who project such causal potency onto the side of the drug as become addicted

it is simply not the case that one's volition is instantaneously sapped in the manner you suggest

it is the power of myth that amazes me!

Namkha

What you just said is the same as saying that cigarette smoking leads to lung cancer. It doesn't necessarily mean it does but when you compare the amount of people who die from it you kinda have an idea. That doesnt mean everyone who smokes gets lung cancer though. Sure not everyone who trys meth is going to become addicted however if 8 out of 10 people who try it becomes addicts does that mean it was there fault and not that of the drug? Think about.

 

[mriko]

I maintain what I say. no substance is addictive. It's first the mind who starts and create the addiction. It's the thought that this or that is needed to feel better which eventually lead to a real addictive behaviour, and physical dependance (when it occcurs). Whatever the products, overuse on along period brings in deep modification in brain chemistry and then at this point there comes indeed a physical need fr the compound. But much before this settle, It's just the mind.
yup, no substance is addictive in itself, it's only the use we make of it which creates the addiction. This use being defined by the encounter of three factors, a product, an individual and a social moment. The combo of these three factors is going to define the type of consumption. Yeah, I would even say that among these threef actors, thenature of the product is coming last important. First the user and his mind settling, second the social setting which is going to induce reflexive consumption in order to reach again a given state of...mind, then the substance which is the key opening the door we want to (well, not always haha !) .

here were loads of nice looking strains on that site

Yeah, great selection ! I think next year I'll give a try to that tobacco tree with small blueish leaves, yum !

well, I think it's time to go crash, heheh

Irie !

 

[robobond]

I maintain what I say. no substance is addictive. It's first the mind who starts and create the addiction. It's the thought that this or that is needed to feel better which eventually lead to a real addictive behaviour, and physical dependance (when it occcurs). Whatever the products, overuse on along period brings in deep modification in brain chemistry and then at this point there comes indeed a physical need fr the compound. But much before this settle, It's just the mind.
yup, no substance is addictive in itself, it's only the use we make of it which creates the addiction. This use being defined by the encounter of three factors, a product, an individual and a social moment. The combo of these three factors is going to define the type of consumption. Yeah, I would even say that among these threef actors, thenature of the product is coming last important. First the user and his mind settling, second the social setting which is going to induce reflexive consumption in order to reach again a given state of...mind, then the substance which is the key opening the door we want to (well, not always haha !) .



Yeah, great selection ! I think next year I'll give a try to that tobacco tree with small blueish leaves, yum !

well, I think it's time to go crash, heheh

Irie !

However addiction is a mental issue so again what you said doesnt make sense. The substance isnt addictive but the mind makes it to be? Fine if the mind does make a substance out to be addicting than we can agree some substances have a more potential to be addicting than others. Which dealing with in the realm of the mind this means still that a substance can be addicting. Doesnt matter whether the addiction happens with in the mind. Where else is it going to happen. Everyone may not become addicted to a certain substance but that doesnt mean that people dont have an increased chance of becoming addictive to one substance over another. People can become addicted to video games however I think methamphetamine has an increased chance of becoming addicting than video games. I think I get kind of what you are saying but still some substances have an advantage over others in their addiction potential and therefore if more people become addicted to one substance over another than it is right that the substance be labeled addictive.

 

[Guest]

i was enjoying reading this thread until you guys started talking about meth and being addicted to opiates.

 

[Guest]

What you just said is the same as saying that cigarette smoking leads to lung cancer. It doesn't necessarily mean it does but when you compare the amount of people who die from it you kinda have an idea. That doesnt mean everyone who smokes gets lung cancer though. Sure not everyone who trys meth is going to become addicted however if 8 out of 10 people who try it becomes addicts does that mean it was there fault and not that of the drug? Think about.

robobond, what I am saying is that you are overstating the case, to the point of misrepresenting the causal link between using meth and meth addiction arising

I don't wish to appear rude but what actual personal experience of meth do you have, or of communities where it is used?

to suggest that if you take meth a couple of time there is an 80% chance you will become an addict is ludicrous

amphetamine, methamphetamine and various other amphetamine derivatives have been around for a while now

Chamberlain, a British PM, used to use amphetamine in the 30s and 40s; it was used as a prescription stimulant for decades, and as a slimming aid and so on

you still appear to be conceiving of meth etc. as things which in themsleves produce addictive behaviour

the problems with meth in Thailand, to give an example, were precisely a result of regular use for extended periods of time - in this case in order to work laborious 36 or 48 hour days

meth use began among factory workers etc. and spread through working class/marginal neighbourhoods such as Klog Toi in Bangkok, then becoming used by bargirls etc.

in all cases yaba was being used to sustain a lifestyle or pattern of behaviour, underpinned by economic conditions

there is no doubt that yaba is in turn conducive to a binge/crash pattern, but to suggest that it is capable in its own right of producing that behaviour is a misrepresentation
and again, it in turn distracts from the real issues

avoid falling foul of the "drug demonistaion" myth systems, my fellow dope fiend

Namkha