Newbie Grower - CFL questions

[Brinny-chan]

Hey guys!

I've been browsing this forum alot, it's been super helpful and informative, but I still have a few questions. I'm attempting my first grow, and I've already made some newbie mistakes. Bought 13w CFLs thinking that they were 60w (damn equivalence crap!), screwed up air intake, heat issues, haha.

Anyway, I have 4 seeds that have germinated and I've planted in soil in my box. Box is probably about 2'W x1.5'D x3'H, inside is white, and I got the airflow stuff fixed so temps are averaging 81-83f.

Problem being, I need new lights now. The 6 13w bulbs are going to have to hold the seeds until I get new bulbs! I'm on a super tight budget so I've been looking at lots of light bulb websites, and found these 85w bulbs. My questions I guess are about safety and how to set them up. I have 3 lamp cords with sockets hanging into the box (height adjustable) and Y-adaptors in each.

If I plan for 2 females, 200W is good, right? My initial thought was 2x85w in one cord, and 4x13w with my old lights, since the weight of the big bulbs is gonna knock the balance off kilter if I try to attach one of my 13s to the other side of a Y-adaptor, but I don't know if 2 85s in one socket would be safe. If not, I could use the two side cords and remove the Y-adaptors from them, have an 85 on each side, and 2x13s hanging down between the plants from the middle cord, that would be 196 total watts, instead of 222 with the first setup.

I could also order some nice cheap 30w or 40w bulbs and work with those, but those 85w caught my eye for being the cheapest way I could pack more watts in!

I'm really bad at electrical stuff, so if anyone can let me know what would be the best way to set this up, that would be fantastic

 

[tube dude]

First of all, when you add more watts you will add more heat. Your still going to need to work on your ventilation.
Second, 3' is too much head room for cfl's. LIght penitration for florecents is only about 10-12 inches into the canopy. Two 85 watts in one socket will be fine but I prefere to use the 23 watt bulbs and just use more of them. It will give you more even light distribution. It wont lower the total wattage of your cab very much if something happens to one of them and you can find them anywhere.

 

[GF-Z]

CFL lights must be properly cooled to do their work another thing is light distribution like tube dude said, its not hps (who can penetrate long distances with minimal loss of efficiency). So it would be better to put more lower wattage bulbs, than 1 big (of course if u have reflector with 98%...). I was doing light hoods and it runned fine, then i cooled it with 2 120x120mm fans at 80% it was much better (g.box temp cooled and that made a big difference plus cooled cfls runs much better)
Stay safe,
Cheers.
What about needed wattage, you must calculate watts/sqft thats all, 100w for one plant would be enought, but remember: more light - more stinky resinous yummy buds

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

Thank you for the helpful replies I will order some of the 30 or 40 watt bulbs then. Good point about if one of the 85s were to burn out!

And I hope I won't have to do much more ventilation work! But if I do, is it possible to hook up two computer fans to one 12v dc adaptor? Again, I'm awful at anything electrical so I had my friend hook up my fan, so I'll need simple instructions if it's possible please!

Also, I don't think the height of the box is an issue, I have the current lights hanging about 2 inches from the pots and can do that with the new bulbs I'll order too

Thanks again!

 

[Lisdexik]

I agree on using smaller bulbs (more bulbs) to achieve a desired wattage. 2 reasons: 1 - more points of light over the plants canopy will result in better light spread and penetration. 2 - If one bulb burns out the canopy will be minimally affected by the loss of light temporarily.

The most important thing I've found with CFLs is having both red and blue spectrum bulbs in the grow-room. I use a mix of red, blue, and daylight CFL bulbs to gain a better spectrum range for the plants to work with.

Using 4-5 bulbs (24W) per square foot of floor space will efficiently grow large buds as long as they don't get more than 2ft from the grow-room floor - so train your plants down early.

Most of the buds in my albums are grown using CFLs and there is a CFL cab i designed and a CFL light hood in there somewhere as well if you need ideas check it out.

Good luck

 

[FreezerBoy]

Not a CFL guy but, from my reading, it seems the consensus among those in the know is 23 watters provide the best bang per buck.

Standard lighting is considered to be 50 watts per square foot minimum with 100 wsf the point of diminishing returns. At 3sf, 150 watts will do you fine. As others have said, more watts=more heat.

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

Thanks again for the tips people, I'm absorbing them all I assure you! Just need to wait for my next paycheck for more lights and another fan.

Does anyone have an answer to my question about 2 fans to one power adaptor? I'd really appreciate it.

Oh, and the first of 5 seeds broke the soil today! Thinking of making a grow journal but I need my username changed or something, haha

 

[FreezerBoy]

Why 2 fans?

You haven't said how you want to use them but, intake fans should be reserved for vent experts only. They are the fastest and only way to achieve positive pressure. Positive pressure means stench at best and jail as a distinct possibility. We want negative pressure which is most easily achieved with a single exhaust fan and passive (non-powered intakes)

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

Why 2 fans?

You haven't said how you want to use them but, intake fans should be reserved for vent experts only. They are the fastest and only way to achieve positive pressure. Positive pressure means stench at best and jail as a distinct possibility. We want negative pressure which is most easily achieved with a single exhaust fan and passive (non-powered intakes)

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was worried about temperatures once I get my higher wattage CFLs, but my temps have stabilized at about 76 with the 13ws and an 80mm PC fan exhausting from the top. I think I'll be okay for temp with the 30ws.

I'm asking about 2 fans now because once I put a DIY carbon filter I found somewhere on this site over the fan (it was made with pencil holders and activated carbon which I already have for my fish tanks) I'm worried about air restriction and therefore temps going up again. I was thinking 2 exhaust with 2 filters but maybe it won't be necessary?

Another use for 2 fans I've been considering is making another box for flowering so I can start more plants in veg at the same time.

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[tube dude]

You can run 2 fanx with one converter as lang as the converter puts out enough amperage to support both fans. If your amperage is too low it will slow down the fans.

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

You can run 2 fanx with one converter as lang as the converter puts out enough amperage to support both fans. If your amperage is too low it will slow down the fans.

It's quite a sizeable converter from a battery charger I had laying around, I think it can handle the load. My problem is I have zero electrical knowledge to actually put it together. I was hoping for a link to a guide or something, for powering two in particular, pictures would be a bonus.

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[AlexTrebek]

I could also order some nice cheap 30w or 40w bulbs and work with those, but those 85w caught my eye for being the cheapest way I could pack more watts in!

Be carefull with these "photographer" bulbs, they don't seem fit for 24hr constant usage and allot of them burn out in a few weeks from what other growers have told me. 23watters are a way of life

 

[FreezerBoy]

I'm asking about 2 fans now because once I put a DIY carbon filter I found somewhere on this site over the fan (it was made with pencil holders and activated carbon which I already have for my fish tanks) I'm worried about air restriction and therefore temps going up again. I was thinking 2 exhaust with 2 filters but maybe it won't be necessary?

You may want to investigate fan stacking. Side by side will increase airflow but not improve the fans ability to combat pressure (scrubber). Stacking will maintain airflow but increase the ability to combat pressure.

Here's a link to me making a fool of myself on just this topic (starting at post 17) Understanding air flow

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

Be carefull with these "photographer" bulbs, they don't seem fit for 24hr constant usage and allot of them burn out in a few weeks from what other growers have told me. 23watters are a way of life

Thanks for the suggestion, but so
I know what I'm looking for, how can you tell that's a photographers bulb? The 30w you quoted seems to be just like a normal bulb to me, same life expectancy and lumens and all?

You may want to investigate fan stacking. Side by side will increase airflow but not improve the fans ability to cotopat pressure (scrubber). Stacking will maintain airflow but increase the ability to combat pressure.

Here's a link to me making a fool of myself on just this topic (starting at post 17) Understanding air flow

Okay that thread has a few concepts I don't understand, haha. Are you suggesting after I get my diy carbon thing going, that I'll need an intake fan as well as the exhaust fan to maintain pressure? Or was this a second box related suggestion? Sorry

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[FreezerBoy]

Hey, it hurts my brain too.

No intake fans unless you're a pro.

Stacking (placing exhaust fans back to back) increases the fans ability to overcome pressure such as a scrubber provides. You are using axial fans. Axial fans move the most air unrestricted. Restricted (as with a scrubber) they bomb out as near useless. Placing axials side by side does nothing against pressure. Stacking will.

Not saying it's required, just something to look into. It may well be that a thinner carbon bed is sufficient. It would have to be refilled more often but, because of the lesser amount per run works out about the same cost-wise. My DIY started with a 1 inch bed and seriously choked my fan. Reduced to 1/2 inch, works great.

 

[tube dude]

Freezer boy is right as usual. My cab is alot smaller than yours[ 12"w x 18"d x 16"h ]. I use 6 23w cfls mounted to the top and sealed with a sheet of clear acrylic. I run two pc fans. One to exhaust the heat from the cfls and another one to scrub the cab. Both fans are exactly the same, The unrestricted fan from the lights puts out about twice the air as the one that is pulling through the filter.

 

[Brinny-chan]

Re: Newbie Grower - CFL questions

Stacking (placing exhaust fans back to back) increases the fans ability to overcome pressure such as a scrubber provides. You are using axial fans. Axial fans move the most air unrestricted. Restricted (as with a scrubber) they bomb out as near useless. Placing axials side by side does nothing against pressure. Stacking will.

I'm sorry, I've been googling and I read this and I still don't understand what stacking is. Placing two fans back to back? So their blades are pushing air in opposite directions? How does that increase pressure? I'm so confused!

Unless you mean placing them both facing the same direction, the front of the first fan against the back of the second fan?



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[AlexTrebek]

Thanks ScrubNinja, you made my post so easy

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=131842

It's ALL there, enjoy the read.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Stacked as in a stack of: coins, boxes, towels. One atop the other. Fans must match. As in 2 Toyo USTF12038's. Not a Toyo USTF12038 and a Toyo USTF12025.

Fans must blow in the same direction or they cancel each other out.

Discussion with pictures linked in post 13 above

...hmmm... pics won't load, illo to follow....

here we go

 

[Brinny-chan]

Thanks so much for the clarification I understand now, sorry it was so painful XD

I was out shopping again today; found some 26w 6500k CFLs, bought 4 of them and on my next payday I noticed some 42w, I might pick up two of those for the middle 2 sockets in my box to bring the watts up.