New room, HVAC and framing questions

[yamaha_1fan]

This I believe is the final design for the new room. This is for flowering only, moms and clones in another room

I hope you can see these pics clearly. I made the layout in Publisher, then saved as a JPEG. Everything is pretty accurate in scale.




Each room is 18x20 and will hold 4 tables to start with. Then later, additional tables will be added. I am probably going to push all the tables togther for an even canopy. The grow will be SOG so I only need access to the plants at once at week 2 or three for trimming, then at harvest.

Lights. I am probably going to run 3 600's over each table in Super Sun 2 hoods. Not a 100% on that.

What would be the best way to cool them? Could I use one manifold design for the whole thing or should I break it up?


Framing. Pretty much know what to do except the ceiling. I know this was discussed on another thread. I think I am going to use a 2x12 to span the 18 foot width. My though was to run one every 6 feet, so that would be two 2x12's per room. Then attach 2x4's perpendicular to the 2x12's. All the joists would sit on top of the walls. I would make sure I have joists where my drywall edges will be.

These rooms are dedicated for this. Should I frame the walls every 16" or can I get away with every 24"? Lots of walls and lumber so trying to save some time and money would be great.


Framing nailer? Any opions? I would prefer to get one that runs on cartridges versus a compressor.

Another ?. I have thought about using the central AC to cool these rooms. But the rooms will be flip flopped and running CO2. It seems like theres no way to cool both rooms with one A/C and keep the CO2 levels right or prevent wasting CO2.

The budget for this is decent but not limitless. Focus here is building a quality room. Obviously we dont want to blow the bank, but labor and effectiveness are the most important.

 

[Pandemic]

Looks ambitious, I wish you well.

Have you considered multi-zone mini split a/c?

Go quality here, Mitsubishi or a known brand.
Don't believe anything about not having to vacuum the system. This promise of convenience cost me $750.
The second one is running great however, 12K cool + heat and dehumidifier option.
I run a stand alone dehumidifier though.

No help on framing at this scale.

 

[Reg Dunlop]

Not sure if this will help or not,but I just finished framing up my new room aswell,and if you want I can kinda give you a heads up as far as what made me swear! I framed my walls 24'' apart,but in retrospect,I kinda wished that I had framed them 15'' or 30''.It would have made life so much more easier when it came to dealing with insulation!!! I'd measure how wide your insulation strips are,and use some common sense as to what's sturdy enough and what's not.I also lined my room with quater inch hardware cloth to keep mice and rats out.It wasn't cheap but now that's one less thing to have to worry about.I'll also need some help/info on installing a ductless mini split inverter aswell,as I have a 24000 btu heat/cool pump on it's way here too.
As far as framing nailers go,I got a bostitch 3 1/2 '' framing nailer air compressor combo.As far as price goes... it was pricey,but I guess you get what you pay for.It beats the hell outa hand nailing every thing! Hope that helps you out there Yamaha 1

 

[CornDog]

you can get away with 24" but your walls will not be as sturdy.

 

[LiLWaynE]

can't wait to see this new room yamaha...

get workin on it!

 

[PharmaCan]

Yamaha - You can get away with 2"x8"s every 24" to span that 18'. You can do it the way you want, but 2x8s would be a lot easier.

The customary standard for walls is 16" o/c for 2x4s w/ R-13, 24" o/c for 2x6s w/ R-19. This standard gives you a potential bearing wall that you could build on top of. So, increasing the spacing to 24" would probably be okay in your application. However, increasing the spacing to 24" will save you only 33 studs, or under $50. As Reg Dunlop pointed out, you're in for hours more work when it comes insulation time and you need to ask yourself if all that extra time and hassle is worth the few dollars you would save.

A cartridge framing nailer? Maybe if the cartridge is a scuba tank. LOL It takes a lot of air to power a framing nailer. You need a decent compressor. My framing nailer is a Senco.

You can save a few dollars on lumber by saving all your scrap and using it for drywall backing. The backing doesn't have to be full boards.

PC

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Yamaha - You can get away with 2"x8"s every 24" to span that 18'. You can do it the way you want, but 2x8s would be a lot easier.

The customary standard for walls is 16" o/c for 2x4s w/ R-13, 24" o/c for 2x6s w/ R-19. This standard gives you a potential bearing wall that you could build on top of. So, increasing the spacing to 24" would probably be okay in your application. However, increasing the spacing to 24" will save you only 33 studs, or under $50. As Reg Dunlop pointed out, you're in for hours more work when it comes insulation time and you need to ask yourself if all that extra time and hassle is worth the few dollars you would save.

A cartridge framing nailer? Maybe if the cartridge is a scuba tank. LOL It takes a lot of air to power a framing nailer. You need a decent compressor. My framing nailer is a Senco.

You can save a few dollars on lumber by saving all your scrap and using it for drywall backing. The backing doesn't have to be full boards.

PC

Thanks. I figured stud spacing would play an issue with insulation.

Tell me you havent seen the airless nailers? They use some type of fuel cartridge and battery. I know they exist, I rented one years ago and Home Depot has one for sale, almost $400

 

[PharmaCan]

Tell me you havent seen the airless nailers? They use some type of fuel cartridge and battery. I know they exist, I rented one years ago and Home Depot has one for sale, almost $400

I don't get out of my cave a whole lot. LOL

I'll have to check that out.

PC

 

[Joey Roastbeef]

try harborfrieght.com for cheap tools they have framing nailers on the cheap. do you get what you pay for? yes. but you should be able to build the walls that you need with it before it be comes worthless.

and the framing guns you are talking about, i have talked to carpenter about them and wonder why i don't see them as much. most have told me that it becomes a hassle when the gas goes low on the cartidge and doesn't drive the nail all the way. it's also another thing you have to stop and change out besides the nails. and when doing this all day that down time will add up. plus you need to charge a battery on top of that. if that goes low performance does to. granted you don't have a hose to drag or get caught up in, but most i've seen use the airless for trim work not framing.

good luck and can't wait for you to start on this project.

 

[cyberthreat]

you can get catridge nailer there like 300$ and you go through cartridge fast and they cost alot just get a compressor framing gun rthat will run you like 200$-300$ then when your done return it hd got good return policy

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I played with the air cooling design a little and here is what I cam eup with. The first design seems to be the one I am going to need, as the second design requires 6 lights in a row to be cooled. If I use 4 per table, then thats 8 lights. That would be 24-32 lights on one cooling system and that doesnt seem like it would work very well






Basically I would use 10-12" ducting for the intake/exhaust, then use 6" to feed the hoods. I dont know if I would need 1 fan pulling, or one at each end, pushing/pulling?

EDIT a little searching shows, one exhaust fan to be the best as the air can only as fast as the exhaust fan can pull it?

Another thing, options are open here. I can pull from the ceiling or any of the 4 walls using an opening up to 15" (between joists/studs)

PC what do you mean use scraps for drywall backing? Do you mean if our drywall edge doesnt fall exactly on a joist std, use the scrap to widen the stud to attach the drywall too?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Looks ambitious, I wish you well.

Have you considered multi-zone mini split a/c?

Go quality here, Mitsubishi or a known brand.
Don't believe anything about not having to vacuum the system. This promise of convenience cost me $750.
The second one is running great however, 12K cool + heat and dehumidifier option.
I run a stand alone dehumidifier though.

No help on framing at this scale.

There are two central A/C units already in operation so I want to try to utilize them.

One would be easy to change some ducts and dropthem into the rooms. the other being further away, would require alot of ductwork.

These units will be dedicated to the grow rooms. So I believe the vents as well as the return vent would have to be in the room. This way the A/C recycled the CO2. But with one room sleeping, and one room awake, I dont see how I could get the A/C to work both rooms without pumping CO2ed into both rooms needlessly.

Maybe use the existing A/C for one room, then a new one for the other.

I think if I went with a new unit, I would just go with an Excel.

The mitsubishis look nice but I dont think 12k BTU's is going to keep this room cool

 

[badugi]

What's the minimum size (portable) air compressor that you could deal with for framing nailers? I don't want to waste too much time and have the compressor run all the time, but at the same time I don't want to get something that's too big.

 

[PharmaCan]

PC what do you mean use scraps for drywall backing? Do you mean if our drywall edge doesnt fall exactly on a joist std, use the scrap to widen the stud to attach the drywall too?

Not exactly. If you use 16" or 24" O/C spacing on your studs and joists the drywall will always fall on a stud, so that's not the issue. When you are done framing, there will be corners where you only have a stud on one of the two perpendicular walls, so you need to add wood backing so that you have something in both sides of the corner to attach the drywall to.

If that doesn't make sense now, it will when you are done with the initial framing.

PC

 

[hoosierdaddy]

At first glance, I think the additional ac unit would be the way to go.

What you want is a Paslode nailer gun. I have had one for years. It uses butane cartridges and a battery pack that fits in the handle.
They are still just under $400.
You will be glad you own it.

 

[badugi]

Just checked out the Paslode cordless framing nailer from their website. Looks like you can get one from eBay for around $200 (refurbished) - $275 (new).

Initial reaction was that this is what I want instead of a pneumatic corded one, but after a little thinking I think I'd be better off buying an air compressor which I can also use for other air tools (I want that sheet metal nibbler for $25!).

What do you pros (carpenters / framers / etc) think about Ridgid's framing nailer (R350RHA)? I can get one for around $200 shipped. I think the refurbished models have a "ZR" prepended to the model number (i.e., ZRR350RHA).

 

[Uncle FREEDOM]

Hey yamaha, how ya doing? Looks like your a busy man! lol

I have a question for you in regards to your table layout...

It looks like you have 2 tables right together with each other. I noticed you have more room in the one direction. Could you leave a 2 foot space between them so you have room to get in there if you have to work on the plants?

My point is one NEVER knows if there is going to a problem, i think you might thank you lucky stars if you made some maintenance access room.

Just curious.

As for ventilation... Have you considered 8" reflectors, they move alot more air. If it was me i would use 4 fans and split each room up in to 2 separate cooling systems. I would then flip flop between rooms and use electronic dampeners to move the air flow to the other room. Running a system of push/pull with the fans would be your best bet.

As for a/c the mini splits rule, But depending if you live someplace cold in the winter, you might have to look into on that the compressor can handle sub freezing temps.

peace

 

[Mr Celsius]

Hi yamaha, I took your picture and messed it all up in paint

Please excuse my crappy editing

I'm unsure, as I write this, if the writing in the picture is going to be legible... hopefully it will be.

First off, the fans pulling air from the opposite end (assuming the ducting is right about the same length) will equalize pressure and cause a fairly even flow among all of the hoods.

You want the Ducting to all the hoods to be 6", but you want your intake and secondary outtakes to be at least 10", I would go with 12"... hopefully something like the CanFan MAX12" I think its around 1200-1400cfm... but probably around 3-4 amps (@ 120v) to run. I'm assuming with this setup that electricity isn't a problem

Your master duct should be as big as you can make it... maybe 18"?

I obviously didn't copy this diagram to the other side of the room, but just flip it around and make it identical.

I don't know much about the building or where you can pull air from, but hopefully this will at least allow you to make an educated guess.

If done right you will probably have to use very little A/C. I assume the goal is Co2, otherwise very large filters/fans strapped to ceiling with no ducting or glass on the hoods would work fine.

 

[Mr Celsius]

Here's your solution for A/Cing the rooms: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=AOACUDDP&eq=&Tp=

I believe there is a simpler method that you could simply have an AC "lung room" with a fan that kicks on from the lung room to your grow room, but there's a duct switcher that can be set to switch the flow of air from one room to another.

Well, there's plenty of options if money isn't a concern, which I know it is.

 

[BlindDate]

I have run a similar setup in the past. Two rooms back to back and a single AC unit in one of the rooms. What I did (with success) was to install two Elicent fans in the adjoining wall. Their flows are opposite each other so that they circulate and share the air between rooms. You will not "waste" any CO2 since the dark side does not use any. In fact, your CO2 usage will be less since sleeping plants actually produce CO2 gas. For rooms that size, I would use no less than 12" fans.

The diagram of your light air cooling scheme is fine. Go with the 4 lights in a row plan not the 8. Also, go with 8" reflectors and use manifolds no less than 16" diameter or rectangular 200 square inches. 200 square inches is equal area to the reflectors. The blower is another story. I don't think they make an axial blower 16". You will probably need a big ass squirrel cage blower. You know, the kind you see mounted on the roofs of buildings with a motor and pulley belt.

Stay safe