New Grow...Multi-Room Set-up, have a few Q's

[DoubleTripleOG]

What's up ladies and gent's? As the title states im setting up a new spot. Gonna be 2 flower rooms, each is 7' wide and 12' long with 7.5' tall ceilings. Mother/veg area is about the size of both rooms put together.

I'm gonna be doing a perpetual flip set-up in the flower rooms. I wanna flip the 1st room this Friday, and 4-4.5 weeks later I'm gonna flip the 2nd room during the 1st rooms dark cycle.

The lights are air cooled from frigid outdoor temps. The whole grow is sealed though. I have a 30,000 btu propane heater(wall kind from home depot/lowes). By having that, the temps stay in check(recording thermometers).

As of right now I have air from the veg area being fan fed into the 1st flower room. This is gonna be happening both during lights on and lights off.

My question is......do you think there will be enough co2 in the air to sustain the flowering plants? I have a co2 generator that also runs on propane if I need it....

 

[frankenstein2]

Come on fella's.........somebody's gotta have something to say. I have been wondering the same thing. Will the ventless heaters put out enough co2? I used another type of heater in a garage and it seemed to work ok.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

What's up ladies and gent's? As the title states im setting up a new spot. Gonna be 2 flower rooms, each is 7' wide and 12' long with 7.5' tall ceilings. Mother/veg area is about the size of both rooms put together.

I'm gonna be doing a perpetual flip set-up in the flower rooms. I wanna flip the 1st room this Friday, and 4-4.5 weeks later I'm gonna flip the 2nd room during the 1st rooms dark cycle.

The lights are air cooled from frigid outdoor temps. The whole grow is sealed though. I have a 30,000 btu propane heater(wall kind from home depot/lowes). By having that, the temps stay in check(recording thermometers).

As of right now I have air from the veg area being fan fed into the 1st flower room. This is gonna be happening both during lights on and lights off.

My question is......do you think there will be enough co2 in the air to sustain the flowering plants? I have a co2 generator that also runs on propane if I need it....

Do you have a co2 sniffer/sensor around that you can plug it and see what the readings are currently with the heater going? This could be a tricky design your shooting for.

Where is the heater in your growspace?

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Don't have a sensor yet. I've run a sealed room before with a sensor and without one. Actually had a co2 controller and co2 ppm meter. The controller shit the bed, so I used the genny on a timer because the ppm meter allowed me to figure out saturation and depletion times.

The entire grow area was one big room. I made it into three rooms. You walk into the veg/mother room and the right side is split into two rooms. The propane heater is located in the veg area. Right now there is really only two rooms because the second flower room doesn't need to be finished and sealed up for another month.

I have ductwork going from the veg area into the flower room. With a 250 cfm fan pulling air from the veg area into the flower room. With a recording thermometer I have concluded night temps will be within the acceptable range. Did a "dry run" with the lights on last night to see what temps are like. A previous "dry run" was done with just pulling air in the room thru the lights and dumping it back into the room. Temps that night only got to 86....which was perfect because with cold air going thru them it will drop some more(right into optimal range).

I have co2 genny that I can use if I need to. I'm thinking not though as I did a grown in a shed that was completely sealed and in the winter. I burned propane in the shed for only a couple hours a day and the only fresh air that went in was from opening the door to get in the shed. That grow did really well and all I did was recycle air from one room to another.

I started this thread because I wanted to hear some outside opinions and /or suggestions. I'm pretty sure things are gonna work ok......but I like to throw it out there in case I'm missing something.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Forgot to say I have a 440 cfm(or something close) 6" fan and filter if I need them. Figured I wouldn't need to exchange the air in the flower room seeing how I'm putting co2 enriched air into it 24/7

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

The only way to tell is to get a sniffer/Co2 controller. I advise to get one that you can calibrate. I can't stress this enough. If you get one that can't be calibrated, plan on not having correct levels.

There's entirely too many variables at play to even attempt to answer.

If you've got the cash to do something of this size, you've got it to get a controller.

 

[Mikell]

Yes, this all seems a little confused. You're using the veg room as a lung? How is the second flower ducted? Out takes return to veg? Why are you circulating high CO2 veg air in to flower rooms continously? Are you scrubbing flower, veg, etc? So many misguided/redundant questions without an adequate outline of what you're trying to do. A detailed picture/explanation would be very helpful.

Entirely agree with JJay on all points. As well, I believe generators are designed for complete fuel combustion (reducing contaminants), the heater is an almost undocumented source of CO2.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Here's the best I could do for a drawing/picture of how things are set up.....

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

30,000 btu?? in a sealed room. You are going to have WAY to much co2 pumping. Your levels could be 2000ppm+ in no time. Is your environment that cold that have to heat the room with lights on?? You are trying to get heat and co2 at once? Sorry to say but this design needs some serious thoughts.

I suggest reading the thread below. Read all the links other kind growers put on there. This will help you realize that if you do decide to grow plants in this environment you only be wasting your time and money. Go get a controller or don't do it at all IMO.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=297479

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

The burner is on a thermostat. The walls are all insulated. It keeps the whole area whatever temp I want without having to run very much. That's why I was wondering if there would be enough co2. I already have plants vegging. They are growing really good. Girls in 3 gal bags, some young seed plants and a few clones. This isn't my first rodeo. I've pulled off grows that the environment was way harder to control than this.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

The burner is on a thermostat. The walls are all insulated. It keeps the whole area whatever temp I want without having to run very much. That's why I was wondering if there would be enough co2. I already have plants vegging. They are growing really good. Girls in 3 gal bags, some young seed plants and a few clones. This isn't my first rodeo. I've pulled off grows that the environment was way harder to control than this.

Im not saying your environment is hard to control, i am just trying to find out if you are reliant on the heater to keep your sealed room from getting to cold or is this what you chose as your co2 source?

The only reason i suggested the read is because it has happened to me multiple times this year misusing co2 burner/heater not having the knowledge i needed. I have lost out on a time and money. I dont like to learn things the hard way personally

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Im not saying your environment is hard to control, i am just trying to find out if you are reliant on the heater to keep your sealed room from getting to cold or is this what you chose as your co2 source?

The only reason i suggested the read is because it has happened to me multiple times this year misusing co2 burner/heater not having the knowledge i needed. I have lost out on a time and money. I dont like to learn things the hard way personally

I have been at this for 20 years now. I was running a 5k sealed room before this one. The heater is for the cold. Where I'm at it get's -30f sometimes for weeks on end. The heater is the only source of heat in the structure(besides the lights). It burns super clean(blue flames all the time.)

I've already learned lots of things the "hard way" . I appreciate your concern, but honestly some of your posts come off as attacks, and are belittling. Saying to scrap the whole grow because I don't have a co2 sensor. How do you think people came up with the idea to use co2? It wasn't because they had a co2 sensor(meter). Those came after they figured out co2 worked with plants like it does.

There are formula's, even website's that are dedicated to these formula's(after I did more research, I found them)(hydroponics.net/learn/co2_calculator) that's one site with a calculator. Don't let my newbie status fool you, I'm no spring chicken.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Using the website I listed in the previous post I figured out some rough calculations. The entire grow area will take 5.1 mins to reach optimal concentration of co2. Which the heater might run 5 mins once or twice an hour. That's with no plants taking co2 from the air. I got the amount of co2 the burner puts out from www.greners.com. They have a bunch of btu sizes listed and how much co2 they produce in an hour. Google is your friend sometimes......

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

There are controllers that can increase as well as decrease (exhausrt) ppm of C02. Titan comes to mind. I have 2 that serves as backup to each other and both are always on. One exhaust at night and one increases during the day.

Its a real good way to cross check your readings. Towards the end of the cycle they do drift apart in readings and therefore require calibration.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

It's a ventless heater. Runs on a thermostat dictated by temperature, not co2 levels. I have a co2 genny for when I don't need the heat. I'm sure if I really wanted to I could hard wire a ppm meter/contoller into the ventless heater instead of a thermostat relay. Soon I will buy a co2 ppm meter and the meter/controller combo. Gonna need 2 sets actually, for both flower rooms when I stop using the ventless heaters. That's when I will use the smaller co2 genny's and a.c. if I need it.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

There could be enough, there could be to little. I Was just trying to get an idea why the heater was being used. Now i understand. I thought we just running the heater for co2 for some uknown lengths of time. But since you now mentioned it comes on for only a few minutes once or twice an hour that makes way more sense.

I have been at this for 20 years now. I was running a 5k sealed room before this one. The heater is for the cold. Where I'm at it get's -30f sometimes for weeks on end. The heater is the only source of heat in the structure(besides the lights). It burns super clean(blue flames all the time.)

I've already learned lots of things the "hard way" . I appreciate your concern, but honestly some of your posts come off as attacks, and are belittling. Saying to scrap the whole grow because I don't have a co2 sensor. How do you think people came up with the idea to use co2? It wasn't because they had a co2 sensor(meter). Those came after they figured out co2 worked with plants like it does.

I apologize if my words came out that way, I was not being literal about scrapping your and not trying to be belittling. I am just being blunt, whats the point in investing your time and energy to a guessing game. I have been banging my head on the wall for the last 14 months dealing with similar issues. A. to high of co2 levels in general B. To high of co2 levels during night periods. c. possible ethylene damaging and stunting plants(ill know for sure after an air test)

If you read the Spurr post that was referenced someone asked the a somewhat similar question to what you dealing with. Read the top post on the link below. This might help with your design.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221893&highlight=night&page=4

Good luck man, hope you can figure it out but sounds like you already there!

There are formula's, even website's that are dedicated to these formula's(after I did more research, I found them)(hydroponics.net/learn/co2_calculator) that's one site with a calculator. Don't let my newbie status fool you, I'm no spring chicken.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

oops, i messed that up,

I apologize if my words came out that way, I was not being literal about scrapping your and not trying to be belittling. I am just being blunt, whats the point in investing your time and energy to a guessing game. I have been banging my head on the wall for the last 14 months dealing with similar issues. A. to high of co2 levels in general B. To high of co2 levels during night periods. c. possible ethylene damaging and stunting plants(ill know for sure after an air test)

If you read the Spurr post that was referenced someone asked the a somewhat similar question to what you dealing with. Read the top post on the link below. This might help with your design.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....t=night&page=4

Good luck man, hope you can figure it out but sounds like you already there!

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Also, can you get your hands on a co2 test kit? For about 20 bucks you could find out roughly where your co2 levels are at.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Also, can you get your hands on a co2 test kit? For about 20 bucks you could find out roughly where your co2 levels are at.

Yeah I saw the test kits on that site I referenced for about $20. I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get a ppm meter(around $200), when I have the spare money. Setting up this grow and buying Christmas presents for my kids has put a serious hurting on my wallet lately.

I must have been having brain bubbles when I started this thread. Because I completely forgot about bookmarking that co2 calculator. Plus my common sense must have been right out the window. I already have used a 9k in a 10x12 room, 30k in a space not even double that size........my brain had left the building on that one. Sometimes I tend to over think things.