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New Forum Needed?
- Thread starter maxe
- Start date
G
Guest
shit is shit till it is human shit we have the most varied diet and dont process the food enough to be beneficial to use cows have multiple stomochs and chew cud horses eat grains and grass mmmmm sounds vegan to me birds shit and piss at the same time and bats eat bugs witch are the best flesh for ne mammal to eat humans are nasty cows are not? sounds weird but its not i dont mind haveing a cow paddy fight but a scat fight has potential to give u a disease although i know cow farmers are immune to ecoli 
G
Guest
Just to touch on the menstruation thing; although it does sound pretty gross, a placenta while not the same thing is one of the best things you could plant next to a plant.
With that said, I can say I will not be carrying a tampon or pad anywhere except inside a trash bag on the way to the trashcan.
J.
With that said, I can say I will not be carrying a tampon or pad anywhere except inside a trash bag on the way to the trashcan.
J.
muddy waters
Active member
maxe i think it's not a topic that is so broad it needs its own forum. this thread would do great and there's already plenty of essential info here. i use alfalfa, chamomile, comfrey, lemon balm, coffee, and pretty much any herbal tea i make. it's all good.
but on the topic of the forum, i think a more interesting forum would be "free, natural fertilizers" which is a topic broad enough for thousands of recipes for substrate and liquid fertilizers, without random qualifications like 'no shit', 'no urine', etc., but including basically anything that is commonly available to humans throughout the world and is a recycled product, not a commercialized, marketed fertilizer. you can grow cannabis from seed to harvest with little more than compost and some river sand mixed in for aeration. that's free to 90% of the world population. imo everything beyond that is pampering. not that i don't think these are plants worth pampering (especially when seeds cost what they do)--i'm just pointing out a little of the absurdity of spending lots of money for highly processed gear for a personal-sized grow, especially if you have time to dedicate to growing and an interest in growing "organic." i really think that once you figure out what you're doing, get the right equipment, figure out the least messy way of doing it, coming up with your own worm compost and teas and whatnot is more time efficient than driving to a gardening or hydro store, waiting in line, driving home, on a regular basis.
but on the topic of the forum, i think a more interesting forum would be "free, natural fertilizers" which is a topic broad enough for thousands of recipes for substrate and liquid fertilizers, without random qualifications like 'no shit', 'no urine', etc., but including basically anything that is commonly available to humans throughout the world and is a recycled product, not a commercialized, marketed fertilizer. you can grow cannabis from seed to harvest with little more than compost and some river sand mixed in for aeration. that's free to 90% of the world population. imo everything beyond that is pampering. not that i don't think these are plants worth pampering (especially when seeds cost what they do)--i'm just pointing out a little of the absurdity of spending lots of money for highly processed gear for a personal-sized grow, especially if you have time to dedicate to growing and an interest in growing "organic." i really think that once you figure out what you're doing, get the right equipment, figure out the least messy way of doing it, coming up with your own worm compost and teas and whatnot is more time efficient than driving to a gardening or hydro store, waiting in line, driving home, on a regular basis.
muddy waters
Active member
Montana you're my hero by the way. i used my own blood from a nosebleed once, into the aquarium, and then from there to the garden, i imagined it must be full of iron among other things. but what you did is really going straight to the source. Cannabis in one african language is known as 'ma konia', or 'divine mother', so i found your homebrew wonderfully appropriate. sorry to hear it didn't smell like flowers- good thing the plants don't have noses...
maxe
Member
muddy waters > yeh you're probably right, the organic forum seems to be one of the least frequented forums as it is now.. and the other idea you had for a forum wasn't so bad =)
I'm also very open for someone just saying 'I tried this' or 'this has been tried before and doesn't produce good results without a compost base' then I would just skip the whole idea.
I will try this organic-liquid-feed-only on a few lowryder 2's and compare them to the rest of the batch...
..menstrual blood is only a disgusting additive if it came from an ugly woman... j/k... I'd rather use blood from my gf than a mistreated pigs blood anyway
I'm also very open for someone just saying 'I tried this' or 'this has been tried before and doesn't produce good results without a compost base' then I would just skip the whole idea.
I will try this organic-liquid-feed-only on a few lowryder 2's and compare them to the rest of the batch...
..menstrual blood is only a disgusting additive if it came from an ugly woman... j/k... I'd rather use blood from my gf than a mistreated pigs blood anyway
G
Guest
i'm getting visions of scantily clad maidens gathering around the Divine Mother plant in the great cannabis forest, to worship her, by means of a full moon ritual. thank you for that montana and muddy.
uh...where was i? oh yes: alfalfa, russian comfrey, sugarcane.
alfalfa and comfrey are deep rooting. comfrey mines potassium from the subsoil, but is nitrogen hungry. alfalfa fixes nitrogen. sugarcane captures carbon. all three will supply phosphorus, micro's and x-factors.
after a year or two, rotate comfrey to where alfalfa was planted, sugarcane to where comfrey was and alfalfa to where sugarcane was.
build a compost pile and/or worm farm to process the waste, and other organic matter.
enjoy.
uh...where was i? oh yes: alfalfa, russian comfrey, sugarcane.
alfalfa and comfrey are deep rooting. comfrey mines potassium from the subsoil, but is nitrogen hungry. alfalfa fixes nitrogen. sugarcane captures carbon. all three will supply phosphorus, micro's and x-factors.
after a year or two, rotate comfrey to where alfalfa was planted, sugarcane to where comfrey was and alfalfa to where sugarcane was.
build a compost pile and/or worm farm to process the waste, and other organic matter.
enjoy.
maxe
Member
yes Alfalfa/Lucerne is definitely somewhat of a wonderplant, this should be it's chemical contents: (in the meal)
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)
Minerals
Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm
Amino acids
Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)
Minerals
Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm
Amino acids
Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%
G
Guest
in my country it's known as lucerne, definitely a wonder plant but so are the other two. the combination of those three plants is what i would call the holy grail of homegrown ferts.
V
vonforne
What is the correct definition of Organic Gardening?
What is OG? Well it very controversal based on who you talk to. Some OG people are strictly conservative in their gardening methods, while others are more adventureous and experimental. Some OG ideas are classical, ancient, and mystical. Other ideas are more modern, scientific, state of the art. Well what is it then?
This is not the best, but it is a good laymen definition of OG:
"ORGANIC GARDENING - the science and art of gardening by incorporating the entire landscape design and environment to improve and maximize the garden soil's health, structure, texture, as well as maximize the production and health of developing plants without using synthethic commercial fertilizers, pesticides, or fungicides."
1. Choose your plants to fit your garden, rather than insisting on growing picky and tempermental plants that require constant fertilizing.
2. Amend your soil with organic materials, e.g, break up clay with compost, rather than reaching for the gypsum right away.
3. Plant things that will attract and maintain a population of beneficial insects, etc., and cultivate the soil in such a way as to encourage good fungi and bacteria that will fight off the bad guys.
4. Never throw organic material in the trash...re-introduce it to your local slice of the biosphere!
Both organic and natural soil amendments are slow release, contain organic matter, and usually have a NPK ratio whose sum of the top 3 major nutrients is less than 20. They are usually designed from decomposed animal or vegetable remains or mineral rocks. They are designed to feed the soil microherd insoluble OM, not supply lots of available soluble plant nutrients.
Synthetic fertilizers have higher NPK because they are designed to chemically build the soluble nutrients of the soil without any organic matter. They also are not designed to feed the soil microherd. Synthetics are normally made from petroleum products or mineral salts.
There are actually 3 major classes of environmentally conscious gardeners today. (Note: none of these 3 classes believe in the use of synthetic fertilizers) They are all similar but also quite different:
1. Organic Gardening - these people don't use anything in their garden that has any potentially harmful chemicals, preservatives, colorings, etc. in their gardening strategies. The modern idealogies of this philosophy are based from men like Sir Albert Howard and J. I. Rodale and his family and company. They garden all year round regardless of weather or climate conditions. Economics, common sense, and environmental concerns drives the focus of this philosophy. All composting and green manuring techniques are key to this philosophy. Organic soil amendments are grass clippings, hay, straw, animal manures, human urine, leaves, dolomitic limestone, greensand, etc.
2. Biodynamic Gardening - these gardeners believe almost the same as the OG people, but they go to the next level. This philosophy was founded mainly by Rudolph Steiner. They believe strongly in gardening during appropriate astrological signs, religion, critical seasons of the year, etc. They are even very adamant about what organic materials goes into their compost at certain specifc times. (i.e. Special uses of comfrey and stinging nettle in compost piles during special times of the year) Their focus is not maximizing crop production like the OG people, but maximizing the physical and spiritual needs of nature. They use special soil amendments like stinging nettle, comfrey, yarrow, and dandelions in many of their gardening functions.
3. Natural Gardening - these gardeners are similar in the basic philosophy of the OG people, but not as strict in their choice of soil amendments. They will use a safe natural product that has good organic matter in it, even if it contains a minimum use of preservatives, colorings, etc. Natural soil amendments are blood meal, bone meal, fish emulsion, kelp spray, cottonseed meal, cattle feeds, etc.
4. Permaculture and other forms of sustainable farming - Permaculture in laymen terms is basically an extreme form of organic gardening where the farmer can only use materials on his/her farm to recycle to make compost, soil amendments, fertilizers, etc. for his farm. No buying or getting of organic material or natural fertilizers from outside or commercial sources.
To make things even more complicated, the USDA has redefined certain guidelines and regulations for any farners who want to be classified as "USDA certified organic"!
The truth is, almost all environmentally conscious gardeners cross over back and forth between these 4 major classes. You as a gardener have to decide for yourself which philosophy style best fits your needs.
Happy Gardening!
What is OG? Well it very controversal based on who you talk to. Some OG people are strictly conservative in their gardening methods, while others are more adventureous and experimental. Some OG ideas are classical, ancient, and mystical. Other ideas are more modern, scientific, state of the art. Well what is it then?
This is not the best, but it is a good laymen definition of OG:
"ORGANIC GARDENING - the science and art of gardening by incorporating the entire landscape design and environment to improve and maximize the garden soil's health, structure, texture, as well as maximize the production and health of developing plants without using synthethic commercial fertilizers, pesticides, or fungicides."
1. Choose your plants to fit your garden, rather than insisting on growing picky and tempermental plants that require constant fertilizing.
2. Amend your soil with organic materials, e.g, break up clay with compost, rather than reaching for the gypsum right away.
3. Plant things that will attract and maintain a population of beneficial insects, etc., and cultivate the soil in such a way as to encourage good fungi and bacteria that will fight off the bad guys.
4. Never throw organic material in the trash...re-introduce it to your local slice of the biosphere!
Both organic and natural soil amendments are slow release, contain organic matter, and usually have a NPK ratio whose sum of the top 3 major nutrients is less than 20. They are usually designed from decomposed animal or vegetable remains or mineral rocks. They are designed to feed the soil microherd insoluble OM, not supply lots of available soluble plant nutrients.
Synthetic fertilizers have higher NPK because they are designed to chemically build the soluble nutrients of the soil without any organic matter. They also are not designed to feed the soil microherd. Synthetics are normally made from petroleum products or mineral salts.
There are actually 3 major classes of environmentally conscious gardeners today. (Note: none of these 3 classes believe in the use of synthetic fertilizers) They are all similar but also quite different:
1. Organic Gardening - these people don't use anything in their garden that has any potentially harmful chemicals, preservatives, colorings, etc. in their gardening strategies. The modern idealogies of this philosophy are based from men like Sir Albert Howard and J. I. Rodale and his family and company. They garden all year round regardless of weather or climate conditions. Economics, common sense, and environmental concerns drives the focus of this philosophy. All composting and green manuring techniques are key to this philosophy. Organic soil amendments are grass clippings, hay, straw, animal manures, human urine, leaves, dolomitic limestone, greensand, etc.
2. Biodynamic Gardening - these gardeners believe almost the same as the OG people, but they go to the next level. This philosophy was founded mainly by Rudolph Steiner. They believe strongly in gardening during appropriate astrological signs, religion, critical seasons of the year, etc. They are even very adamant about what organic materials goes into their compost at certain specifc times. (i.e. Special uses of comfrey and stinging nettle in compost piles during special times of the year) Their focus is not maximizing crop production like the OG people, but maximizing the physical and spiritual needs of nature. They use special soil amendments like stinging nettle, comfrey, yarrow, and dandelions in many of their gardening functions.
3. Natural Gardening - these gardeners are similar in the basic philosophy of the OG people, but not as strict in their choice of soil amendments. They will use a safe natural product that has good organic matter in it, even if it contains a minimum use of preservatives, colorings, etc. Natural soil amendments are blood meal, bone meal, fish emulsion, kelp spray, cottonseed meal, cattle feeds, etc.
4. Permaculture and other forms of sustainable farming - Permaculture in laymen terms is basically an extreme form of organic gardening where the farmer can only use materials on his/her farm to recycle to make compost, soil amendments, fertilizers, etc. for his farm. No buying or getting of organic material or natural fertilizers from outside or commercial sources.
To make things even more complicated, the USDA has redefined certain guidelines and regulations for any farners who want to be classified as "USDA certified organic"!
The truth is, almost all environmentally conscious gardeners cross over back and forth between these 4 major classes. You as a gardener have to decide for yourself which philosophy style best fits your needs.
Happy Gardening!
muddy waters
Active member
preach satghost preach! tell em bout the holy trinity! comfrey, alfalfa, and sugarcane. i've only worked with the first two but carbon sequestration is definitely good. i usually just go with brown leaves from various trees when i'm looking to adjust C:N in my compost. also, chamomile if it hasn't been mentioned is another good one. really almost any herbal tea you make will be full of beneficial hormones, amino acids, and nutrients. i've used lemon balm, peppermint, passionflower, catnip, and many other teas on myself and my plants and seen positive response to all. tea is your friend.
maxe--yeah man the funny thing to me is how people round here just seem to love the bat guano which is bat shit AND urine dried into pellet form, yet the idea of using one's own urine is like ewwwww GROSSSS!!!111!1 pee on your plants OMG OMG ewwwww ... and i just wonder, wtf, is it because bats are all furry and cute that their shit and piss is mmmm scrumptious while human urine is disgusting? i really don't get it. blood and urine from humans seems much more appropriate, besides, if you use it properly diluted you should be able to avoid all smell. i use urine diluted heavily on most of my crops into early flower and i have never even caught a whiff of it in my growroom. seaweed tea for example is a hundred times more foul especially once it goes anaerobic (evacuate the premises!). i will say this--human shit is a definite no-no unless thermophilic composting or bio-digestion has run its course and turned it into humus. but then again i consider any uncomposted shit (besides fish poop) to be inappropriate for food or smoke crops.
maxe--yeah man the funny thing to me is how people round here just seem to love the bat guano which is bat shit AND urine dried into pellet form, yet the idea of using one's own urine is like ewwwww GROSSSS!!!111!1 pee on your plants OMG OMG ewwwww ... and i just wonder, wtf, is it because bats are all furry and cute that their shit and piss is mmmm scrumptious while human urine is disgusting? i really don't get it. blood and urine from humans seems much more appropriate, besides, if you use it properly diluted you should be able to avoid all smell. i use urine diluted heavily on most of my crops into early flower and i have never even caught a whiff of it in my growroom. seaweed tea for example is a hundred times more foul especially once it goes anaerobic (evacuate the premises!). i will say this--human shit is a definite no-no unless thermophilic composting or bio-digestion has run its course and turned it into humus. but then again i consider any uncomposted shit (besides fish poop) to be inappropriate for food or smoke crops.
muddy waters i think you should do some reading on bat guano. you dont seem to know much or anything beneficial at least from what you have posted. just the negatives, and anyone can pick those out no matter what the subject. http://www.bat-guano.com/english/articulo-guano3.html some simple reading. im not going to say there isnt any negatives. breath some in and it can be very harmful. but theres always two sides.
not to say i don't love my nettles! don't know what id do without them they give the weed the most unique high and adds duration to the high sometimes. alfalfa of course is one of the best N sources gotta love it.
not to say i don't love my nettles! don't know what id do without them they give the weed the most unique high and adds duration to the high sometimes. alfalfa of course is one of the best N sources gotta love it.
G
Guest
jaykush, there's nothing special about guano. you gotta read between the lines there buddy, that link you posted is all marketing hype. tell me this: how is guano better than local nutrients? man i implore you, see through that shit.
muddy, i'm interested in how you use those teas. do you use them straight? bubble them up with castings?
muddy, i'm interested in how you use those teas. do you use them straight? bubble them up with castings?
V
vonforne
SatGhost said:
Nothing special about guano? We must have been doing different research over the last 20 or so years. I do not take anything away from home made. I make most of my nutrient solutions now as does Jaykush. Guano is just not the NPK compounds, it contains trace elements ect. Providing that in other solutions it will contain more of this or that but then you have to add the missing trace elements. Also you can get guano with different NPK values and taylor them to your needs.
1.plant fertilizer--a 10-3-1 NPK composition
2.soil builder--improves texture and richness
3.lawn treatment--promotes growth and healthy color
4.soil cleanser--bioremediation microbes help clean up toxic residues
5.fungicide--combats fungus through foliar feeding
6.nematocide--decomposing microbes help control nematodes
7.compost activator--decomposing microbes expedite composting processes
Here is an example, in the OFC we were discussing ways to make LK among other things. Now yeast came up with a variety of additives to add to get the yeast....beer, extract ect. but after researching I found a type of guano the contains yeast. Here is the article
That is just one example of tayloring guano to fit your plants needs and to have needed nutrients and trace minerals without an huge stock pile of things to blend. I have been also tayloring castings along the same lines.
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muddy waters
Active member
jaykush i've used guano, it's definitely something the plants love; the question is, why don't the same people who find urine so yucky get all nauseous thinking about bat piss and bat shit? guano is hardly a very hygienic product, whether bird or bat. especially the finer particulate dust. maybe it's just me, but i'd rather spill a little urine on my hands than have batshit dust in me lungs dig?
satghost i'm bubbling a tea right now that's mostly castings, along with some alfalfa and comfrey, and a spoon of molasses, to innoculate the castings i had to sterilize. usually though i just do the herbal teas without bubbling, just a few tablespoons of herb in a .5L cup of water for 48 hours and then strained, used plant matter usually becomes a mulch.
satghost i'm bubbling a tea right now that's mostly castings, along with some alfalfa and comfrey, and a spoon of molasses, to innoculate the castings i had to sterilize. usually though i just do the herbal teas without bubbling, just a few tablespoons of herb in a .5L cup of water for 48 hours and then strained, used plant matter usually becomes a mulch.
satghost i know that link isnt the best, i didnt have time just needed to post something informational as muddy waters seemed to not know much about its properties. now how is it better. its not, nothing is BETTER. they are all used for different things. your not going to use alfalfa for some fat ass buds are you? and what would local nutrients be?
muddy, yea thanks for not trippin im sure you just want the know how on this one. like i said bat guano isnt the safest thing to use. but if your a dumbass your probly not going to get sick its a chance ive never seen it happen. now if your careful about what your doing and dont go blowin clouds of guano around youll be fine. ive been using it for a while and know relatives that have been using it since the 80's with no health problems. and people have been using it way way before then. i dont get all yucky about human urine. human shit i do its horrible for nutrients and anything but beneficial. humane urine im not saying is a bad way to go. in fact there are many beneficials just as guano but there are negatives just as anything out there. either way there both pretty bad hygienically, they both have there + and - i just thaught talking shit is no way to go because guano is highly beneficial - the stupid little problems you need to look past. guano and nettles tea is some of the best ive noticed. the plants fuckin explode with growth.
on another note i let my nettles and alfalfa sit with now brewing for the first few days then add some extract to the bubbling tea with the rest of the goodies. excess goes either mulch like muddy said or compost bin.
ps i know theres a thread the 3lb started that has more than enough info about guano ill have to dig it up somehow.
all in all no need to argue we all smoke the nugs.
muddy, yea thanks for not trippin im sure you just want the know how on this one. like i said bat guano isnt the safest thing to use. but if your a dumbass your probly not going to get sick its a chance ive never seen it happen. now if your careful about what your doing and dont go blowin clouds of guano around youll be fine. ive been using it for a while and know relatives that have been using it since the 80's with no health problems. and people have been using it way way before then. i dont get all yucky about human urine. human shit i do its horrible for nutrients and anything but beneficial. humane urine im not saying is a bad way to go. in fact there are many beneficials just as guano but there are negatives just as anything out there. either way there both pretty bad hygienically, they both have there + and - i just thaught talking shit is no way to go because guano is highly beneficial - the stupid little problems you need to look past. guano and nettles tea is some of the best ive noticed. the plants fuckin explode with growth.
on another note i let my nettles and alfalfa sit with now brewing for the first few days then add some extract to the bubbling tea with the rest of the goodies. excess goes either mulch like muddy said or compost bin.
ps i know theres a thread the 3lb started that has more than enough info about guano ill have to dig it up somehow.
all in all no need to argue we all smoke the nugs.
muddy waters
Active member
jaykush i'm very familiar with guano bro, i have used it a lot. bat and seabird. good shit. literally.
did you know by the way that the ebola virus probably spread to humans through contact with bat guano in a cave in the congo? guano and urine are definitely NOT comparable as far as hygiene goes; urine comes out of the body sterile (unless that person has a urinary tract infection); in the olden days people even used to use it to clean wounds. on the other hand, you'd have to be pretty batty (oh!) to spread guano on an open cut of any kind. bats and birds can have a lot of diseases potentially transmissible to humans. not trying to say you shouldn't use guano, but honestly i wouldn't use it direct on my plants, whether cannabis or tea herbs, unless i was fertigating beneath the substrate. but anyway my point stands, and that is that people tend to have fucked up perceptions of what is "gross" and what is "awesome nutes"--just something i've observed here over the years. peace.
did you know by the way that the ebola virus probably spread to humans through contact with bat guano in a cave in the congo? guano and urine are definitely NOT comparable as far as hygiene goes; urine comes out of the body sterile (unless that person has a urinary tract infection); in the olden days people even used to use it to clean wounds. on the other hand, you'd have to be pretty batty (oh!) to spread guano on an open cut of any kind. bats and birds can have a lot of diseases potentially transmissible to humans. not trying to say you shouldn't use guano, but honestly i wouldn't use it direct on my plants, whether cannabis or tea herbs, unless i was fertigating beneath the substrate. but anyway my point stands, and that is that people tend to have fucked up perceptions of what is "gross" and what is "awesome nutes"--just something i've observed here over the years. peace.
