NEW FORMULA Masterblend 0-12-24 Is This The Best Option in 2023???

[Gooseman23]

Why I think the new masterblend 0-12-24 formula is the best choice. So I see many people that praise jacks… and I just want to shine a light on the new masterblend 0-12-24. Can only be ordered at custom hydro nutrients. Masterblend made it specifically for them. Anywho so while I love jacks there was always a problem for people who want to phase out the N. You can’t do it. Not in an ideal way IMO. And until now Athena pro solved that problem but as we all know they over charge for it. Essentially with jacks you can’t get rid of the 5 N no matter what and in order to bring N down you have to lower your calcium nitrate, Which is also taking away calcium and many don’t want to lower calcium. In fact many flush products use calcium chloride or some people even flush with calcium sulfate (aka gypsum) with this formula calcium is no issue at any point. And even in later flowering when you would like to lower N to let’s say 100 ppm well you still end up with about 125ppm calcium! which is still plenty. Numbers just for example. Also with this formula do you even need mkp boost? You can just essentially raise your masterblend and get it. In other words this formula is pretty much complete control. Now besides it being a little cheaper than jacks and enormously cheaper than Athena pro an advantage it has over Athena is that it includes the micros so you can still use any brand of calcium nitrate. With Athena they put their micros in their calcium nitrate so you have to buy their overpriced calcinit. this advantage also leads to giving you a good micros even without the extra N. I’d imagine if you wanted more micros in flowering you wouldn’t want those to also come with more N.
This formula was just released so there aren’t any runs with results as of yet but I’m telling you I know a winner when I see one. I’m curious to hear others opinions on it but for me it seems to be a sure thing. I think @BillFarthing should add this in his post for cheap nutrient line. I’ll for sure run it basically following what he teaches in that thread. Only I don’t believe there will be any need to increase calcium at transition as he suggests with this formula. So for example purposes I’ll share some numbers so on customhydro the recommended dosage is 5.5g/gal masterblend 4g/gal calcinit and that would give you these npk numbers:

152ppm N - 76ppm P - 289ppm K - 60ppm Mg - 199ppm Ca - 159ppm S

2.8ppm Fe - 0.142ppm Zn - 0.285ppm B - 0.142ppm Cu - 0.142ppm Mo - 0.7ppm Mn

Now for me it seems a bit high but I have watched green gene garden on YouTube who recommends running it 4g/gal masterblend and 3.25g/gal Calcinit .75g/gal magnesium sulfate
Those numbers look like this:
133ppm N - 55ppm P - 210ppm K - 61ppm Mg - 163ppm Ca - 142ppm S

2.113ppm Fe - 0.106ppm Zn - 0.211ppm B - 0.106ppm Cu - 0.106ppm Mo - 0.528ppm Mn

And as you can see we added in .75g/gal magnesium sulfate with this lower feed but at the recommended dosage on the website though you probably wouldn’t need the magnesium sulfate. If you’re running that high.
Now I notice bill recommends using hammerhead AN 0-9-18 for flower boost. But we already have that ratio here so instead of adding that or mkp we can just up the masterblend and lower the calcinit. For a flower boost formula for week 4-6. We could try to run it at 5g/gal masterblend. Instead of adding 1g/gal flower boost just add 1g/gal masterblend. And we can lower the calcinit to say 2.5 g/gal and note we will also lower magnesium sulfate to .5 g/gal and those numbers look like this:
102ppm N - 69ppm P - 263ppm K - 65ppm Mg - 125ppm Ca - 162ppm S

2.642ppm Fe - 0.132ppm Zn - 0.264ppm B - 0.132ppm Cu - 0.132ppm Mo - 0.66ppm Mn

We could even go the recommended 5.5g/gal and drop the .5g/gal magnesium sulfate and boost our micros back to the original formula with that same high PK of 76ppm P - 289ppm K - if you feel you should go that high…

And the thing about this formula is the ability to adjust however you see fit. A little more control than the others while also being very cheap.

 

[Tomatoesonly]

I'm all for it. I like the idea of being able to stack this stuff how WE want, and not be forced to feed extra minerals we don't want. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Gooseman23]

I'm all for it. I like the idea of being able to stack this stuff how WE want, and not be forced to feed extra minerals we don't want. Thanks for the heads up.

Exactly! That’s what I’m liking about it. Seems this will be the one that you can dial in exactly how you want… they are all the same ingredients but looks like masterblend got it right with this one. I’m curious how others would want to run it.I’m basically going to follow how Bill Farthing does it. Will run
masterblend at 4 g/gal
calcinit at 3.25g/gal
epsom at .75g/gal
Along with mr fulvic at 1ml/gal
Weekly will be:
Tribus original for microbes
grow genius monosilicic acid for silica
And I’ll of course read the plants to see if they want more or less. First time running mr fulvic and that’s supposed to make the plants need less food. Also I won’t be running MKP as I don’t think it’s needed with this. But I’m open ears if some one think the PK ratio would be better with added MKP. The current ratio is 1:2 but the ppm numbers I’ve shown in the post are actual available numbers and when you work that into the equation you closer to a 1:4 (1:3.8) ratio with P being around 43% available and K being around I think 83% don’t quite me on those availability numbers I can’t remember exact but somewhere around there…

 

[indocult]

I like the the pk ratio better, however the trace are a little different...

Mb (0-12-24) @ 5.5g
Fe 2.642ppm
Zn 0.132ppm
B 0.264ppm
Cu 0.132ppm
Mo 0.132ppm
Mn 0.66ppm

Jacks (5-12-26) @ 3.6
Fe - 2.9
Zn - .145
B - .4835
Cu - .145
Mo - .1837
Mn - .4835

 

[Gooseman23]

I like the the pk ratio better, however the trace are a little different...

Mb (0-12-24) @ 5.5g
Fe 2.642ppm
Zn 0.132ppm
B 0.264ppm
Cu 0.132ppm
Mo 0.132ppm
Mn 0.66ppm

Jacks (5-12-26) @ 3.6
Fe - 2.9
Zn - .145
B - .4835
Cu - .145
Mo - .1837
Mn - .4835

I agree with you there jacks has more trace minerals. But you could run jacks MOST trace if you like. but I’m running with Mr. Fulvic at 1ml per gal all the way through as recommended by bill farthing. That’s giving amino acids, organic acids, trace minerals too even ones not included at all in jacks or MB. Currently running this in flower like:
3 gr/gal cal nit
5gr/gal MB
1ml per gal mr fulvic.
Weekly:
.12ml per gal grow genius MSA
1ml per gal tribus original
1/2- 1 tsp per gal recharge
Also compared to some of the other top brands it’s not lacking in trace at all. For example if you take Athena pro you’ll see it has more. So less than jacks but the trace minerals are debatable as I have not seen any literature to say how much exactly of any of them is optimal. They are meant to be small so it isn’t necessarily about who has more.

 

[plumsmooth]

Did someone compare this directly to the standard Tomato formula at 2-2-1 Masterblend? And btw, I believe Jacks has 'less' micros then masterblend. I don't want to waste my Tomato 4-18-38 can someone speak to the timing of using this new product i.e. all the way through as a replacement for the 4-18-38?

 

[Tynehead Tom]

I'm curious as to why the K numbers are so high in these mixes
I've never ran nutrients with K numbers like that
When I first learned to grow it was peters 20-20-20 and 10-52-10 and my mentor had some powders he would add that looking back I believe were K and Gypsum. Then more recently following advice from a guy that manages 600 plant per "room" , multi room gardens and was an active member here at one point , pushing K at 60% of P was the goal. Seems to work very well and I am pleased with my harvests.
I get the need or desire to drop N but am a struggling with those super high K numbers
After switching from those old Peter's formula's from the 80's/early 90's to General Hydro flora series ran with a modified Lucas ratio (8micro/16bloom) and using the powdered kool bloom at the late transition...... I find myself now in a conundrum. Can't get General Hydro product off the shelf here anymore. The wholesalers apparently no longer have access to GH product in Canada. So I am trying new things and Jacks was something I might try..... someone also suggested Plant Prod's new Canna line of nutrients which I haven't looked at yet.
I opted to give Hollands Secret a try...... made not far from me here in Canada so it's supporting a local business. The ratios are not the same as General Hydro Flora but I am going with 8micro(hardwater) and 15bloom and the plants seem to like it and I am not noticing any drastic changes in plant performance. I'm chopping my first run with this mix in a couple days and they look on point. Will see how they smoke.
I thought about the athena line but cost rules it out for me.
Now that I can't get my usual ferts....... I'm opening the door to new and perhaps simpler options. I just don't want to buy from amazon ..... only if no other option presents itself. I know I can get GH nutes there but I get a greasy feeling everytime I place an order that just puts more dimes into bezos's pocket. LOL

 

[Tomatoesonly]

I'm curious as to why the K numbers are so high in these mixes
I've never ran nutrients with K numbers like that
When I first learned to grow it was peters 20-20-20 and 10-52-10 and my mentor had some powders he would add that looking back I believe were K and Gypsum. Then more recently following advice from a guy that manages 600 plant per "room" , multi room gardens and was an active member here at one point , pushing K at 60% of P was the goal. Seems to work very well and I am pleased with my harvests.
I get the need or desire to drop N but am a struggling with those super high K numbers
After switching from those old Peter's formula's from the 80's/early 90's to General Hydro flora series ran with a modified Lucas ratio (8micro/16bloom) and using the powdered kool bloom at the late transition...... I find myself now in a conundrum. Can't get General Hydro product off the shelf here anymore. The wholesalers apparently no longer have access to GH product in Canada. So I am trying new things and Jacks was something I might try..... someone also suggested Plant Prod's new Canna line of nutrients which I haven't looked at yet.
I opted to give Hollands Secret a try...... made not far from me here in Canada so it's supporting a local business. The ratios are not the same as General Hydro Flora but I am going with 8micro(hardwater) and 15bloom and the plants seem to like it and I am not noticing any drastic changes in plant performance. I'm chopping my first run with this mix in a couple days and they look on point. Will see how they smoke.
I thought about the athena line but cost rules it out for me.
Now that I can't get my usual ferts....... I'm opening the door to new and perhaps simpler options. I just don't want to buy from amazon ..... only if no other option presents itself. I know I can get GH nutes there but I get a greasy feeling everytime I place an order that just puts more dimes into bezos's pocket. LOL

The K number is high and the N low because there is NO calcium, which is to be added via Calcium Nitrate... which is where you get your needed N.
If anything is too high, it's the P number... which research has shown and the environment as a whole is being wrecked by excess amounts of P from uninformed farmers and gardeners.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

The K number is high and the N low because there is NO calcium, which is to be added via Calcium Nitrate... which is where you get your needed N.
If anything is too high, it's the P number... which research has shown and the environment as a whole is being wrecked by excess amounts of P from uninformed farmers and gardeners.

I don't think it's fair to call folks uninformed farmers when it seems there are many "very" experienced cannabis growers doing things a certain way. It seems there remains "much" to learn by everyone now that the past few years have started to see more and more research being done on cannabis specific soil needs.
Doesn't matter that my own journey started in 89...... I will forever be a student of this craft.
Here where I'm at I'm on well water so the plants are getting an unkown amount of stuff .... whatever is in that water it grows nice plants though. I was reading some local water table data and there seems phosphorous levels in our region are in the "high" range. I keep meaning to send my water in for testing and also getting one of those test at home kits. I wonder what my PK ratios actually are after mixing. I supplement with gypsum and when needed have epsom on hand but generally rarely use it.

K I'll shut up now and let ya'all discuss. I would like to feed simpler, and targetted to the plant's life stages.

 

[Tomatoesonly]

I don't think it's fair to call folks uninformed farmers when it seems there are many "very" experienced cannabis growers doing things a certain way. It seems there remains "much" to learn by everyone now that the past few years have started to see more and more research being done on cannabis specific soil needs.

WHAT??????????? Phosphorus is extremely dangerous to all waterways. It gets there primarily from farmers. And on top of that... that was the ONLY thing you got out of that reply??? You're clearly not here to learn anything.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

WHAT??????????? Phosphorus is extremely dangerous to all waterways. It gets there primarily from farmers. And on top of that... that was the ONLY thing you got out of that reply??? You're clearly not here to learn anything.

wierd.... i guess I'll leave this thread..... wouldn't want to go irritating you now. LOL
you make an awful lot of assumptions there fella.
The lake water table that all of our sources are connected to out here in the country has numerous lakes connected by a small river that flows for several hundred kilometers connecting them all. The ground here is ancient volcanic covered in glacial till of over 300feet deep in places. The minerals in the water table are not getting there from farmers...... there is some ranching that has gone on for a couple hundred years but no farming of any scale and livestock production is quite limitted as well. No more than anywhere else out in the country. So when I say phosphorous levels are "high" in the water table , it's not some nuclear level that warrants your reaction.

if you are here to teach..... then fucken teach and leave the bullshit assumptions aside.
Some like to teach and are patient with those who would gather to learn. Others like to pontificate in an effort to show others how much they think they know.

I'll go look for a teacher thanx

 

[mexweed]

I'll be sticking to the tomato formula

 

[ShowMe_Cannabis]

I agree with you there jacks has more trace minerals. But you could run jacks MOST trace if you like. but I’m running with Mr. Fulvic at 1ml per gal all the way through as recommended by bill farthing. That’s giving amino acids, organic acids, trace minerals too even ones not included at all in jacks or MB. Currently running this in flower like:
3 gr/gal cal nit
5gr/gal MB
1ml per gal mr fulvic.
Weekly:
.12ml per gal grow genius MSA
1ml per gal tribus original
1/2- 1 tsp per gal recharge
Also compared to some of the other top brands it’s not lacking in trace at all. For example if you take Athena pro you’ll see it has more. So less than jacks but the trace minerals are debatable as I have not seen any literature to say how much exactly of any of them is optimal. They are meant to be small so it isn’t necessarily about who has more.

Now that it is July, how did you like running masterblend? Looking for more feedback

 

[DeadRabbit]

---

I've been using for bout 2 months. Interested in seeing some results and ppms people have been running.

 

[ShowMe_Cannabis]

I’ve had 2 harvest with masterblend so far. At a 5:4 ratio. Been pulling cal/nit day 43. Seems like I could pull earlier depending on the cultivar. I came from jacks 321 which I still use for veg. Terps are great, just had a rosin return of 4.5%. Going to keep dialing it in. I’m super happy with it.

 

[x1HANDED BILLS]

Came here to chime in for all the jacks 321 fans.
They recently released their version of a cannabis bloom formula. 0 -12 - 26. Came here to see if anyone's ran it yet

 

[marwachine]

I’ve had 2 harvest with masterblend so far. At a 5:4 ratio. Been pulling cal/nit day 43. Seems like I could pull earlier depending on the cultivar. I came from jacks 321 which I still use for veg. Terps are great, just had a rosin return of 4.5%. Going to keep dialing it in. I’m super happy with it.

wdym by 5:4 ratio?

 

[ShowMe_Cannabis]

wdym by 5:4

MB:Cal/Nit

 

[marwachine]

MB:Cal/Nit

I see. What about for veg? I'm using masterblend tomato formula currently. Should I just follow the recommended mix or do you have a better recipe?

 

[ShowMe_Cannabis]

I see. What about for veg? I'm using masterblend tomato formula currently. Should I just follow the recommended mix or do you have a better recipe?

I still use jacks 321 for veg. Their recommended mix comes down to a 5:4 ratio. I use this as my base. Week 4/5 I taper down N and bump P/K. Then completely pull N around day 43. Supplement calcium with calcium sulfate and calcium phosphate. I also add photosynthesis plus and some other goodies, foliar sprays. But for flower, this has been working great for us.