Nevilles Haze x Malawi Killer and A5 x Malawi Killer

[bestothebest]

I remember reading a post by nevil on the three hazes he had found and liked. This is my quick synopsis: Haze C was the floral/fruity male, did well in crosses and didn’t quite match the classic haze smells and such. Only surviving one of the three. Hence why in Neville’s haze, you are looking for the haze A pheno. The Haze A was the classic haze male, high quality. Matched what haze is supposed to be. He only made a few seeds with it, and it died before he could really use it. That is why the A5 is so rare: some of the few seeds of the NL5 female x Haze A male. Haze B was his selected haze female. Next to no breeding was done with this female, and it appears the prodigy were not as good as the males prodigy. This female was also suspected to be a filial generation earlier than the A and C. He remarked on wanting to cross the A and B but never got the chance. This is why you use a haze male and other female strain: you can count on haze having the same format and growth while seeing what the female can do. Haze B died first really early on, then haze A died after a bit, then haze C is supposedly still living.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Hey Thcv, look back to this thread, you even posted in it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8084163&postcount=4
Bob pretty much says it all.

Also have a look at this one:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6566299#post6566299

Start at post #26 and definitely read up to #202.

The Netherlands is bigger than just Amsterdam btw. What Amsterdam crew are you referring to? Or are you confusing the south of Holland with Amsterdam? And who is vibes? I’m wondering about the Mirakel thai and what it is, I see karma released A5 x Mirakel thai as freebies in ‘09 and bodhi and some others bred with it, but why are you so sure that the A5 karma has shared with Sam has got Mirakel thai in it? If there’s anyone who can tell you what A5 is supposed to be like, it’s him. Reading the second thread I linked should probably clear things up a little. Such as, the "crew down south" everyone is referring to has more or less been broken up for years, this A5 was supposedly shared by that same crew with probably a couple dozen of people, one of which has been growing this cut exclusively since the early 90's, apparently. I’m just curious which one of the cuts Sammy thinks it is that has reemerged, the mango or diesel, don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned anywhere yet.

 

[led05]

Hey Thcv, look back to this thread, you even posted in it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8084163&postcount=4
Bob pretty much says it all.

Also have a look at this one:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6566299#post6566299

Start at post #26 and definitely read up to #202.

The Netherlands is bigger than just Amsterdam btw. What Amsterdam crew are you referring to? Or are you confusing the south of Holland with Amsterdam? And who is vibes? I’m wondering about the Mirakel thai and what it is, I see karma released A5 x Mirakel thai as freebies in ‘09 and bodhi and some others bred with it, but why are you so sure that the A5 karma has shared with Sam has got Mirakel thai in it? If there’s anyone who can tell you what A5 is supposed to be like, it’s him. Reading the second thread I linked should probably clear things up a little. Such as, the "crew down south" everyone is referring to has more or less been broken up for years, this A5 was supposedly shared by that same crew with probably a couple dozen of people, one of which has been growing this cut exclusively since the early 90's, apparently. I’m just curious which one of the cuts Sammy thinks it is that has reemerged, the mango or diesel, don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned anywhere yet.

many good points, it seems whenever someone brings these old "lost" legends back the stories are always just murky enough to not be clear, allows for ambiguity and an out, just in case someone with more truth comes a barking along...

So for now, it looks like more "special" releases of the old examples of A5, NH, C5, HPH, RKS etc will continue popping up and all date back to that golden era of.... somewhere b/w the 1980's or late 80's and early 90's or mid 90's; yeah that's it....

I hope I'm wrong and someone really does re-release some of those old gems I remember way back when, won't be holding my breath though, Especially when the guys who made them, can't even get them or don't have them....

re-create please.... for instance, anyone smelled some old school haze in Dubi's Guatemala? I have... - I wonder if that Guat is really a Colombian - seems like it to me, now where from there

 

[Spaventa]

I think these will be interesting crosses we have here - the Malawi has woody terpenes. They may add another layer of complexity and compliment the incensey floral aromas.

I don't now how homogenous we can expect them to be but I suspect each strain will give 3 typical phenotypes, mother dominant, father dominant and 50/50.

We may find plants that are very much like the A5 and Nevilles Haze parents, maybe with increased hybrid vigour and African potency? The Malawi is the most potent sativa around.

Its great genetics to work with and Ace have enough experience with hazes and their hybrids to do a great job of combining the best of them. Thanks again dubi for letting me try the first results.

 

[Thcvhunter]

Hey Thcv, look back to this thread, you even posted in it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8084163&postcount=4
Bob pretty much says it all.

Also have a look at this one:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6566299#post6566299

Start at post #26 and definitely read up to #202.

The Netherlands is bigger than just Amsterdam btw. What Amsterdam crew are you referring to? Or are you confusing the south of Holland with Amsterdam? And who is vibes? I’m wondering about the Mirakel thai and what it is, I see karma released A5 x Mirakel thai as freebies in ‘09 and bodhi and some others bred with it, but why are you so sure that the A5 karma has shared with Sam has got Mirakel thai in it? If there’s anyone who can tell you what A5 is supposed to be like, it’s him. Reading the second thread I linked should probably clear things up a little. Such as, the "crew down south" everyone is referring to has more or less been broken up for years, this A5 was supposedly shared by that same crew with probably a couple dozen of people, one of which has been growing this cut exclusively since the early 90's, apparently. I’m just curious which one of the cuts Sammy thinks it is that has reemerged, the mango or diesel, don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned anywhere yet.

Good catch. I did mix up S. Holland with S. A'Dam.
My bad.

 

[deepwaterdude]

Hey Thcv, look back to this thread, you even posted in it:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8084163&postcount=4
Bob pretty much says it all.

Also have a look at this one:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6566299#post6566299

Start at post #26 and definitely read up to #202.

That second thread is killer, read it all the way through. Much good info in there, including many pics/descriptions of the various Hazes we're talkin about. Nice to know the history and have a bit of a guide on what to look out for Eagerly awaiting next pics!

 

[beanz]

bombs away

 

[Thcvhunter]

many good points, it seems whenever someone brings these old "lost" legends back the stories are always just murky enough to not be clear, allows for ambiguity and an out, just in case someone with more truth comes a barking along...

So for now, it looks like more "special" releases of the old examples of A5, NH, C5, HPH, RKS etc will continue popping up and all date back to that golden era of.... somewhere b/w the 1980's or late 80's and early 90's or mid 90's; yeah that's it....

I hope I'm wrong and someone really does re-release some of those old gems I remember way back when, won't be holding my breath though, Especially when the guys who made them, can't even get them or don't have them....

re-create please.... for instance, anyone smelled some old school haze in Dubi's Guatemala? I have... - I wonder if that Guat is really a Colombian - seems like it to me, now where from there

Bingo

 

[9DRAGONS]

sound great, good luck with the grow, ace make some real nice seeds

 

[dubi]

Glad to see people receiving and starting to grow the new dutch Hazes x New Malawi Killer fem seeds, upcoming months are going to be exciting!

I received the A5 and Neville's Haze mothers directly from Sammy in clone form. I respect Sammy as a person, as a grower and as legit source for these genetics. I think his first hand experience with these old dutch haze elite clones has been widely documented here at ICMag and in other forums. I'm not interested in quoting others to try to convince someone. I'm mainly interested to work with exceptional plants. The goal of this collabotion with Sammy is to try to produce exceptional hybrids of stronger sativa influence with these old dutch haze mothers that Sammy and a few others have been growing and preserving for the last 3 decades.

As i commented previously in this thread, i have grown most of the best haze hybrids from the 90s and i have been fascinated with them since then .... so to have the chance to breed with some of the parental plants that produced these amazing haze hybrids is a fascinating breeding opportunity.

My first hand experience with these 2 old dutch haze mothers is short. We received the clones past late spring, just on time to establish the mothers in our mother room, replicate them and to plant a small copy of each outdoors directly in soil in the second half of August.

Sammy and other growers have mastered the way of growing these genetics indoors in hydro system. I thought it would be interesting to grow the same genetics outdoors, fully organically in a warm climate to be able to compare, and that's what we did.
We just prepared a bit the soil and amended it with a bit of compost with chicken shit. Both (A5 and Neville's) were grown together and finished only with plain water, to be able to experience in the most natural way the terpenes that both mothers have to offer.

I was advised by Sammy about the huge vigor and long flowering times of these 2 mothers and he was right. Both A5 and Neville's Haze have excellent hybrid vigor, both accept and need high levels of EC for a proper development. I was expecting that A5 being a straight NL5 x Haze A hybrid would be much more indica influenced than Neville's Haze, which is the same A5 mother crossed again to another Haze male (C), but i was wrong. A5 is also very sativa dominant like Neville's Haze (both around 70-80 % phenotipically sativa ) and both have shown a similar behaviour outdoors.

The small copies planted in late August grew very fast, reaching a good size in very short time and developing strong branches. Both started the flowering more or less at the same time in September (at 37ºN), showing very similar growing structures, developing similar kind of flowering and finishing around the same dates (third week of November). The terpene profiles were quite similar in the first half of the flowering although they showed more differences in the second half of flowering.

A5 has a very pungent dark rotten organic incensey aroma, the Neville's Haze mother started with similar A5 kind of aromas, to later develop in the second half of flowering a much sweeter floral terpene profile (i guess from the Haze C male), where the A5 dark organic rotten incensey aromas remain at the bottom, but not so strong like in the 'pure' A5.

I was surprised that both A5 and the Neville's Haze mothers finished almost at the same time here outdoors. The Neville's Haze finished with better flower density and better flower/leaf ratio than A5, the flowers look nicer than A5 although A5 had stronger aromas at harvest time. This proven to be true also during trimming: the Neville's Haze is much easier to trim, but the A5 stinks during the trimming much more and in a much more agressive way than her Neville's Haze daughter.

I've been smoking both daily for the last 7-10 days after 2-3 months of curing ..... and it's clear that both need a proper and long curing to fix their terpene profiles. I'm starting to get familiarized with both. So far the A5 excites me a lot while the Neville's Haze disappoints me a bit, although i prefer to wait 3 months more of curing before make my final judgement.

The A5 has an overpowering potency (probably one of the strongest plants i ever smoked, it's hard to finish a joint alone), with an amazing complexity and depth in the effect, it's very trippy at the start.... the visual, auditive and touch perception changes a lot with just a few tokes and the psyche is launched into a new dimension, really trip weed which later becomes more introspective, physical, narcotic and couchlock, in fact i can smoke her at night before sleep and it makes me sleep very deep after the trip, even producing blackouts before the sleep. Now with the curing the smell of the A5 buds is pure incense mixed with strange rotten organic aromas. The taste is dark, liver, pure incense, rotten organic floral aromas with touches of rotten tropical fruits too. It burns producing that scandalous dutch Haze incense aroma from the 90s that we all the haze lovers love. It's without any doubt an amazing plant with an outstanding potency and kind of effect, probably it's not for everyone and not for every moment, but this plant has magic. I think there's huge potential in the A5 x Malawi hybrids, especially regarding extreme potency and depth of the effect, and of course, regarding yield, vigor, branching and resin production.

The Neville's Haze has a much more kinder and gentler effect. It starts very clear, uplifted and well focused in the first hour or so, to later become more introspective and narcotic, still being able to socialize. I think i prefer the Neville's Haze over A5 as a plant to smoke daily and in many different situations, although the Neville's Haze (at least this mother) lacks of the personality, strength and magic of the A5. I also find the Neville's Haze terpene profile to be more bland, neutral and generic than A5, this Neville's Haze mother doesn't offer such intense incense aromas like the A5.
I think we at ACE have sativas with more interesting aromas, better brighter sativa effects and with stronger potencies in shorter flowering times than this Neville's Haze, but i rate A5 very very highly, it has been years since i have had the pleasure to experience a potency and type of effect like the A5 delivers. Thanks Sammy

First 3 pics are from 30th September. First pic is A5 starting to flower in late Sept, second one is Neville's Haze and third one both together. 4th pic is A5 finishing in the third week of November, 5th an A5 bud pic finishing. 6th pic is Neville's Haze finishing and 7th is a Neville's Haze bud finishing.

Hope it helps!

 

[Spaventa]

both accept and need high levels of EC for a proper development.

I cant believe these things - they went deficient despite having had half strength nutes from the day the second set of true leaves. Someone noted the stems were red on day 3 and they asked if it was temps. I said then they were hungry and been tentatively increasing the food. Ive upped it to 3/4 strength now and its stabilised but I have never had babies that NEED so strong nutes from the start pretty much. Just about everything else Ive grown from seed would get burnt to shit at that stage by that much Canna Vega.

 

[growhigh1233]

id be really interested in these 2 hybrids ................. are they avilible now ?

 

[Boney]

This is fascinating

 

[Bmac1]

Pulling up a chair for this one. These will be killer. No pun intended.

 

[Gr33nSanta]

same

 

[Ncali]

Thank you for sharing this info Dubi and Sammy. The a5hz x malawi sounds amazing and the Nevil's haze I'm sure will increase it's effect with a long cure! Can't wait to get these from you guys Dubi

NC

Glad to see people receiving and starting to grow the new dutch Hazes x New Malawi Killer fem seeds, upcoming months are going to be exciting!

I received the A5 and Neville's Haze mothers directly from Sammy in clone form. I respect Sammy as a person, as a grower and as legit source for these genetics. I think his first hand experience with these old dutch haze elite clones has been widely documented here at ICMag and in other forums. I'm not interested in quoting others to try to convince someone. I'm mainly interested to work with exceptional plants. The goal of this collabotion with Sammy is to try to produce exceptional hybrids of stronger sativa influence with these old dutch haze mothers that Sammy and a few others have been growing and preserving for the last 3 decades.

As i commented previously in this thread, i have grown most of the best haze hybrids from the 90s and i have been fascinated with them since then .... so to have the chance to breed with some of the parental plants that produced these amazing haze hybrids is a fascinating breeding opportunity.

My first hand experience with these 2 old dutch haze mothers is short. We received the clones past late spring, just on time to establish the mothers in our mother room, replicate them and to plant a small copy of each outdoors directly in soil in the second half of August.

Sammy and other growers have mastered the way of growing these genetics indoors in hydro system. I thought it would be interesting to grow the same genetics outdoors, fully organically in a warm climate to be able to compare, and that's what we did.
We just prepared a bit the soil and amended it with a bit of compost with chicken shit. Both (A5 and Neville's) were grown together and finished only with plain water, to be able to experience in the most natural way the terpenes that both mothers have to offer.

I was advised by Sammy about the huge vigor and long flowering times of these 2 mothers and he was right. Both A5 and Neville's Haze have excellent hybrid vigor, both accept and need high levels of EC for a proper development. I was expecting that A5 being a straight NL5 x Haze A hybrid would be much more indica influenced than Neville's Haze, which is the same A5 mother crossed again to another Haze male (C), but i was wrong. A5 is also very sativa dominant like Neville's Haze (both around 70-80 % phenotipically sativa ) and both have shown a similar behaviour outdoors.

The small copies planted in late August grew very fast, reaching a good size in very short time and developing strong branches. Both started the flowering more or less at the same time in September (at 37ºN), showing very similar growing structures, developing similar kind of flowering and finishing around the same dates (third week of November). The terpene profiles were quite similar in the first half of the flowering although they showed more differences in the second half of flowering.

A5 has a very pungent dark rotten organic incensey aroma, the Neville's Haze mother started with similar A5 kind of aromas, to later develop in the second half of flowering a much sweeter floral terpene profile (i guess from the Haze C male), where the A5 dark organic rotten incensey aromas remain at the bottom, but not so strong like in the 'pure' A5.

I was surprised that both A5 and the Neville's Haze mothers finished almost at the same time here outdoors. The Neville's Haze finished with better flower density and better flower/leaf ratio than A5, the flowers look nicer than A5 although A5 had stronger aromas at harvest time. This proven to be true also during trimming: the Neville's Haze is much easier to trim, but the A5 stinks during the trimming much more and in a much more agressive way than her Neville's Haze daughter.

I've been smoking both daily for the last 7-10 days after 2-3 months of curing ..... and it's clear that both need a proper and long curing to fix their terpene profiles. I'm starting to get familiarized with both. So far the A5 excites me a lot while the Neville's Haze disappoints me a bit, although i prefer to wait 3 months more of curing before make my final judgement.

The A5 has an overpowering potency (probably one of the strongest plants i ever smoked, it's hard to finish a joint alone), with an amazing complexity and depth in the effect, it's very trippy at the start.... the visual, auditive and touch perception changes a lot with just a few tokes and the psyche is launched into a new dimension, really trip weed which later becomes more introspective, physical, narcotic and couchlock, in fact i can smoke her at night before sleep and it makes me sleep very deep after the trip, even producing blackouts before the sleep. Now with the curing the smell of the A5 buds is pure incense mixed with strange rotten organic aromas. The taste is dark, liver, pure incense, rotten organic floral aromas with touches of rotten tropical fruits too. It burns producing that scandalous dutch Haze incense aroma from the 90s that we all the haze lovers love. It's without any doubt an amazing plant with an outstanding potency and kind of effect, probably it's not for everyone and not for every moment, but this plant has magic. I think there's huge potential in the A5 x Malawi hybrids, especially regarding extreme potency and depth of the effect, and of course, regarding yield, vigor, branching and resin production.

The Neville's Haze has a much more kinder and gentler effect. It starts very clear, uplifted and well focused in the first hour or so, to later become more introspective and narcotic, still being able to socialize. I think i prefer the Neville's Haze over A5 as a plant to smoke daily and in many different situations, although the Neville's Haze (at least this mother) lacks of the personality, strength and magic of the A5. I also find the Neville's Haze terpene profile to be more bland, neutral and generic than A5, this Neville's Haze mother doesn't offer such intense incense aromas like the A5.
I think we at ACE have sativas with more interesting aromas, better brighter sativa effects and with stronger potencies in shorter flowering times than this Neville's Haze, but i rate A5 very very highly, it has been years since i have had the pleasure to experience a potency and type of effect like the A5 delivers. Thanks Sammy

First 3 pics are from 30th September. First pic is A5 starting to flower in late Sept, second one is Neville's Haze and third one both together. 4th pic is A5 finishing in the third week of November, 5th an A5 bud pic finishing. 6th pic is Neville's Haze finishing and 7th is a Neville's Haze bud finishing.

Hope it helps!

 

[Spaventa]

Don't bite my head off for not moving them on yet guys, Im going to be moving them into aero now they have greened up a bit. Think ill do that tomorrow actually. They are on 3/4 strength veg nutes and Rhizotonic at 5.5.
Anyway, the plan from here it to veg them just long enough to root well and take a cut from each to keep and flip them - I don't care about yield really, these are connoisseur strains not for yield anyway. If I do anything else I risk running out of space, in all directions.

 

[beanz]

100% germination here .... 10 each strain .

 

[Spaventa]

100% germination here .... 10 each strain .

Nice. How long/big you vegging them?

 

[beanz]

Nice. How long/big you vegging them?

there late season outdoor /greenhouse ....they should be anywhere from 6 to 8 feet + when finished.

sativa grow about foot week round here this time year once there established some roots

here,s a 10 foot + haze /laos think its about 9 to 10 weeks old ....though the testers won,t be as bushy .... .