Neem Oil vs. Mycorrhizae

[schwagg]

it's the karanja sourcee CC knows. it's on my wishlist!!

 

[3rdEye]

it's the karanja sourcee CC knows. it's on my wishlist!!

yep schwagg on mine too. Just need a few more ducats then

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Evaluation of organic soil amendments

Evaluation of organic soil amendments

I finally found a peer-reviewed study on the effects of neem seek meal (aka cake) on the soil microbes and specifically mycorrhizal fungi - [cite]

Two things worthy of note in this study is not only the effect of neem seed meal specifically but the results from adding peat moss to the soil as an amendment.

"Soil amendment with neem cake was reported to favour the multiplication of Trichoderma spp (Krishnamoorthy and Bhaskaran, 1991)"

Also noteworthy are the numbers under the "Seedling Vigour Index" column, 2x using neem cake vs. the control field as well as Germination Rates, Root Length, Shoot Length and Dry Matter Content.

HTH

CC

 

[Microbeman]

Trichoderma is not really specifically considered a mycorrhizal fungi (AFAIK) if that is what you meant. That is an interesting study regarding the effects of organic matter amendments but I did not see references to effects on endomycorrhizal fungi (the type which is mycorrhizal with cannabis)

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Trichoderma is not really specifically considered a mycorrhizal fungi (AFAIK) if that is what you meant. That is an interesting study regarding the effects of organic matter amendments but I did not see references to effects on endomycorrhizal fungi (the type which is mycorrhizal with cannabis)

MM

I misspoke (obviously). I had 4 or 5 pages open looking for references to neem seed cake & mycorrhizal fungi (specifically) and this study was a link from another study from the same university in India. The problem with the original study that I was looking at only involved the inoculation of ectomycorrhizal strains to neem tree orchards in both India as well as Pakistan. These strains had been harvested from healthier orchards as a test to determine if this method would help increase the health (and production) of trees that had been weakened as a result of drought.

Thanks for looking at the study and though I was wrong on the mycorrhizal fungi, the other benefits looked interesting and somewhat of a validation to continue adding these meals to my potting soils.

What I can say is that since I began using these meals I have never had anything flying around at all and the application of a neem meal & kelp meal tea shows an immediate benefit in vigor, color, etc. usually within 3 or 4 hours. I also moved through the past summer unscathed by the powdery mildew issues that were massive. Weather patterns and such.

It's cheap enough and there are organic products available at fair prices.

Thanks!

CC

 

[Microbeman]

I have never had anything flying around at all and the application of a neem meal & kelp meal tea shows an immediate benefit in vigor, color, etc. usually within 3 or 4 hours. I also moved through the past summer unscathed by the powdery mildew issues that were massive. Weather patterns and such.

This truly is amazing.

I know I did an assay for you recently but this was done in my temporary lab set up in my living room. I'm presently building a new lab which I hope will be finished by Christmas and I'd be happy to look at this from a microbial perspective.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Karanja Tree

Karanja Tree

Here's a link from Purdue University's horticulture department about karanja trees - aka Pongam or Indian Beech

At the end of the article are some good links to more information.

HTH

CC

 

[spurr]

Here ya go my friend:

It seems strong evidence shows neem oil/cake and AM fungi are fine together, and neem befits AM fungi:

P.S. the fact the rep. from Mycorrhizal Associates, Inc. had never heard of neem makes me even more suspicious about the supposed authority of M.A....


1. Biotechnology of Va mycorrhiza: Indian scenario
By Dr. Sudhir Chandra, H. K. Kehri
(book)

​

2. Handbook of Pesticides: Methods of Pesticide Residues Analysis
By Leo M. L. Nollet, Hamir Singh Rathore
(book)

​

3. Comparative efficacy of VAM fungi in combination with neem cake against Meloidogyne incognita on Crossandra undulaefolia
By Nagesh, M.; Reddy, P. P.; Rao, M. S., 1999: Mycorrhiza News 11(3): 11-13
http://mycorrhizae.org.in/files/Myco11-3.pdf

​

Other papers showing neem cake and AM fungi is fine, I should be able to get the full test of most of these:



4. Efficacy of Glomus fasciculatum in comparison with neem cake and carbofuran for management of Meloidogyne incognita on black gram and green gram
Borah AparajitaNeog P. P.Sinha A. K.
Annals of Plant Protection Sciences, Year : 2007, Volume : 15, Issue : 2
http://www.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx?target=ijor:apps&volume=15&issue=2&article=037


5. Management of root lesion nematode, Pratylenchus delattrei in crossandra using oil cakes
By G. Jothi , Rajeswari Sundara Babu , S. Ramakrishnan and G. Rajendran
Bioresource Technology, Volume 93, Issue 3, July 2004, Pages 257-259


6. SUPPRESSION OF MELOIDOGYNE INCOGNITA IN LYCOPERSICON ESCULENTUM WITH AM FUNGI AND PLANT EXTRACTS
S. Sharma, A. Bharadwaj
ISHS Acta Horticulturae 695: I International Symposium on Tomato Diseases
http://www.actahort.org/books/695/695_47.htm


7. Effect of different levels of neem cake and biofertilizer on properties of soil, nutrient status and grain yield of black gram (Vigna mungo L.) type-9.
Hakeem, SA; Thomas, T; Wani, S. 2007.
PLANT ARCHIVES. 7(2):847-849.
http://mycorrhiza.ag.utk.edu/latest/latest08/08_4hakee1.htm


8. Management of Meloidogyne incognita on tomato by integrating endomycorrhiza, Glomus mosseae with oil cakes under nursery and field condition
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2216028


9. Effect to integration of endomycorrhiza (Glomus mossae) and neem cake on the control of root-knot nematode on tomato
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3690249

 

[spurr]

One thing I found while researching this topic is this same question (re: neem + AM fungi) has been asked at a few cannabis forums. I didn't bother reading those threads at other forums...

 

[spurr]

Thanks for looking at the study and though I was wrong on the mycorrhizal fungi, the other benefits looked interesting and somewhat of a validation to continue adding these meals to my potting soils.

What concentration do you add neem meal to media? In a few studies I read the workers used ~2-5% weight/weight (neem/media)

What I can say is that since I began using these meals I have never had anything flying around at all and the application of a neem meal & kelp meal tea shows an immediate benefit in vigor, color, etc. usually within 3 or 4 hours. I also moved through the past summer unscathed by the powdery mildew issues that were massive. Weather patterns and such.

Could you please elaborate on your neem meal and kelp meal tea? Is it a slurry or do you aerate it? What quantity (% by volume) of neem meal do you add to a volume of water (i.e. vol/vol)?

Do to your experiences I want to try using neem and check out the affects upon soil biota with my microscope.

Thanks!

MM,

I would love to read your thoughts after testing for CC!

 

[statusquo]

Here's a link from Purdue University's horticulture department about karanja trees - aka Pongam or Indian Beech

At the end of the article are some good links to more information.

HTH

CC

Thanks a ton for all of your contributions, learning a lot here
Spurr too

 

[Clackamas Coot]

What concentration do you add neem meal to media? In a few studies I read the workers used ~2-5% weight/weight (neem/media)

About 1 cup total of equal parts of organic neem and organic karanja meal/cake to each 1 c.f. of potting soil.

Could you please elaborate on your neem meal and kelp meal tea? Is it a slurry or do you aerate it? What quantity (% by volume) of neem meal do you add to a volume of water (i.e. vol/vol)?

I add 1 - 1.5 cups of the seed meal mix to 5 gallons of water along with 1/2 of kelp meal. I let this bubble out for 24 - 30 hours. This is a suitable rate for using as a soil soak as well as a foliar spray. I also add the suggested rate (per label) of the Dyn-Gro Pro-TeKt.

The best source for the organic neem & karanja products (leaf, oil, cake/meal, et al.) is NeemResource.com and their prices are extremely good.

On the West Coast, the neem seed meal packed by Down-To-Earth is from Dyna-Gro. It's a very fine product. A 44 lb. bag (20 kg) is $78.00 if you buy it from DTE. If you were to buy it direct from Dyna-Gro the price is around $45.00 - before you figure in S&H.

The organic meals from NeemResource.com are $38.00 for organic neem meal and $34.00 for organic karanja meal. You still have to figure in S&H but it still comes out better than buying the non-organic meal from DTE.

NeemResource.com has a really good deal - their Sample Pack #3 which give you 1 gallon of organic neem seed oil, 1 gallon of organic karanja meal, 5 lbs. of organic neem seed meal and 5 lbs. of organic karanja meal for $150.00 which is your delivered price.

While their web site currently show these items to be 'Out of Stock' I talked with them this morning and they will be able to fill orders by the end of this week. Unloading the container and such.

HTH

CC

BTW: The legal name of NeemResource.com is 'The Ahimsa Foundation' which I liked on philosophical tenets.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

spurr

One thing that I forgot to mention is that I add the same amount (1 cup per 1 c.f.) of a local shrimp & crab meal from the Oregon Coast. Dungeness crab shells and those horrible 'cocktail shrimp' that always taste like they're water-logged. At any rate they have shells that are removed during processing and are then hauled away by MarionAg down in Salem, Oregon where it's turned into a soil amendment.

Chitin and all.

CC

 

[PhishyAl]

Neem oil constituents absorbed through roots...

Neem oil constituents absorbed through roots...

From the webpage:

http://web.pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/resourceguide//mfs/08neem.php

Active neem constituents can be absorbed through plant roots and systemically move upward through the plant through xylem tissues (Gill and Lewis 1971, Larew 1988, Nisbet, et al. 1993, Osman and Port 1990). This works best when sufficient quantities are applied to the root zone. Systemic effects are much less apparent from foliar sprays. Different plant species also differ widely in their ability to have systemic effects from neem. Neem constituents last much longer within the plant than when sprayed on the leaves. However, over time they will be diluted by growth.

 

[PhishyAl]

Above post

Above post

I would recommend reading the entire webpage using the link in my previous post. Excellent information on neem oil applications.

 

[CT Guy]

KIS Organics has the neem cake and oil in stock, but not the karanja, just FYI.

I'm looking forward to taking more time to read those links.

Spurr, good to see you back on here!

 

[b_all_in]

CT

CT

Ive been looking to get started on my ROLS so Ive been looking at KIS. I didnt see any neem oil, just neem cake. Is that something I need to ask for when I call. I dont mind calling at all because those sure are nice, helpful and really smart.

 

[CT Guy]

Ive been looking to get started on my ROLS so Ive been looking at KIS. I didnt see any neem oil, just neem cake. Is that something I need to ask for when I call. I dont mind calling at all because those sure are nice, helpful and really smart.

I would just give them a call.

Cheers!