Need some experienced help designing 10kW room

[Guest]

3000 dollars? wow that is very impressive....can you give a little breakdown?

 

[Guest]

 

[Joe A. Grower]

3000 dollars? wow that is very impressive....can you give a little breakdown?

The flower area occupies a 15'x16' area inside a slightly larger than normal 2 car garage. The room itself is kind of a giant "bathtub" made with 2x3's and covered with a tarp, so run off from the containers stays in the growroom. The containers are home made 30 gal pots about 27" tall and 19" in diameter. They are made with wire fencing material and landscaping fabric.

There is also a 5'x9' veg area in the garage that was constructed with panda film and lumber left over from the main area. We use a hooded 1000W HPS light that was given to me by a friend, so I haven't included it in the cost breakdown.

Basically, the only items that actually came from a grow shop are the lights and the panda plastic. Everything else in the place can be purchased from Lowes.

 

[Guest]

We use a hooded 1000W HPS light that was given to me by a friend, so I haven't included it in the cost breakdown.

Gotcha!

I was wonderin where u got all ur lights sooo cheap for haha....

How does soil work for you for such a large op? The drippers save your back, but its still a mess right? Do you re-use, or compost it?

I also totally agree with setting up an op with the least amt. of startup costs as possible, but there are a few things that are very nice =)

 

[Joe A. Grower]

I was wonderin where u got all ur lights sooo cheap for haha....

I only use one light that I didn't have to pay for (the one in the veg area). If I had paid for that light and hood, the total cost of the op would be around $3,500. The reason I got lights for $245 a piece is because I don't use hoods and I don't buy Hortilux bulbs, digital ballasts, and all that other expensive bullshit.

How does soil work for you for such a large op? The drippers save your back, but its still a mess right? Do you re-use, or compost it?

Yeah, the soil is a major pain in the ass. The runoff from the containers just goes on the floor and is contained by the tarp. If there is a lot of runoff, we go in and suck it up with a shop vac. Otherwise we just let it evaporate.

So far we've been reusing the soil. We just pull out all of the roots we can, add some more manure, and use it for the next batch. However, we probably aren't going to use this soil again. We have a recurring mite problem that seems to show up right about the time the young'uns are transplanted into the recycled soil. I suspect the only way we're going to get rid of the little fuckers is to make a clean sweep.

Looking down the road, we are probably going to do away with the big 30 gal containers. They are a bitch to move and processing all that soil is a major task. I think we are going to move to 5 gal buckets. If we grow the plants a little smaller, but increase the number of plants from 16 to 24, I think we can manage the same light capture without the need for such big containers.

 

[Guest]

Pests can be a real....well, pest. haha

When you make a clean sweep remember to either bomb (with safe pesticides) the room, or crank up the c02 if you have it (with no plants in there) so the bugs die! Have you ever considered going to hydro? Hydro is a breeze, and will work well with your setup. Bubbling buckets, recirc dwc, or even tables.......prob. not the later if you are doing a smaller amt. of plants

 

[Joe A. Grower]

Have you ever considered going to hydro? Hydro is a breeze, and will work well with your setup. Bubbling buckets, recirc dwc, or even tables.......prob. not the later if you are doing a smaller amt. of plants

My partner and I are former outdoor growers who were forced indoors by problems we had with local law enforcement. The reason we went with soil in large containers is because that was as close to outdoor growing as we could get. We use soil because its what we know.

I've personally done enough research on hydro that I would feel comfortable moving in that direction. In fact, I think hydro would increase our yields significantly. The biggest thing holding back the yields is how big we can veg the plants up during the 8 week cycle we use. Hydro is well known to speed up the vegging process and produce much bushier, larger plants verses soil.

However, my partner is an older guy who doesn't like to change things if he doesn't have to. I have to leave growing in the near future due to the aforementioned legal problems, and my partner isn't comfortable going to hydro on his own. So we will probably stick with soil or soiless mix.

 

[Guest]

Well old habits are hard to break, but is it at all possible to do a test grow? Say do half the crop in soil, the other half with hydro. Soil will never be welcome in my residence ever again, unless it is used to hold a few mom's. Speaking of mom's, are you going straight from seed or are you using clones?

The biggest fear of hydro for myself is a flood, but there are many different types of hydro setups that will rule this outcome out.

Soil and hydro are both great in their own ways, to each his own.....hydro goes down the drain tho haha....thats a big seller for me

 

[Joe A. Grower]

Well old habits are hard to break, but is it at all possible to do a test grow? Say do half the crop in soil, the other half with hydro.

Like I said, I have to leave growing after this current crop, and my partner simply isn't that interested in hydro. If I could stick around, we probably would.

Speaking of mom's, are you going straight from seed or are you using clones?

We mostly go with clones, although we've grown a few seed plants trying to find genetics more suitable to our style of growing. We don't use mothers, though. Clones are taken from actual production plants just before they go into flower.

The biggest fear of hydro for myself is a flood, but there are many different types of hydro setups that will rule this outcome out.

Floods aren't a problem if you design the growroom to handle them. Our growroom is designed to contain the runoff from 18 large plants.


We built a square frame around the perimiter of the growroom with cheap 2"x3" lumber. Then we laid a tough, water-proof tarp over the floor and nailed it into the frame. It would take 150 gallons of water to fill the main room to a depth of one inch, and somewhere around 375 gallons to actually cause a flood that would escape the garage. Needless to say we don't worry much about flooding.

 

[Guest]

I love the tarp idea!

I have heard of using a tarp, or waterbed matress......but this looks soooo simple. All I needed was a visual aid. Is the tarp doubled up, or is it just one layer? What are some expected prices for waterproof tarps, and where would one go searching for one?

I am full of questions aren't I....haha

~edit Is there a formula you know that will calculate the amt. of water it will take to fill up a specific space, you mention how much it will take to flood the tarp/the garage......didn't know if this was an estimate or not.

 

[Joe A. Grower]

I love the tarp idea!

I have heard of using a tarp, or waterbed matress......but this looks soooo simple. All I needed was a visual aid. Is the tarp doubled up, or is it just one layer? What are some expected prices for waterproof tarps, and where would one go searching for one?

We used a single tarp that we got at Lowes and didn't bother doubling up. They have a wide variety of sizes that range anywhere from $5 to $30. I think ours was a 16'x20' tarp and was around $20. We used that tarp and 8 cheap 2"x3"x8' lumber for the frame, so the whole thing -- tarp and lumber included -- cost about $40.

Really, as cheap as a flood basin is to construct, no grow room should be without one.

Is there a formula you know that will calculate the amt. of water it will take to fill up a specific space, you mention how much it will take to flood the tarp/the garage......didn't know if this was an estimate or not.

Yeah, the formula is pretty easy.

1 cu ft = 7.5 gal

So if I have a 15' x 16' room flooded to a depth of 2.5" (which is the actual height of a 2"x3" piece of lumber):

15' x 16' x (2.5/12)' = 50 cu. ft. = 375 gal.

Odds are we would actually get some leakage though small holes in the bottom of the tarp if we really had a major flood, but the tarp would probably contain most of it. We routinely have 20 to 30 gal. of water leak on the floor and so far it has never made it out of the garage.

 

[bbudd]

too triv
Noticed your comments(very well informed by the way) in the 10k thread.When you mentioned delayed starting times did you mean(in a 12/12 flip) that you use different relays/timers on each pair of lights so they engage at different times?Sounds good -just wondering if thats how you would get around the power spike.

 

[DB2004]

If you want a link for custom flips, checkout www.nowirenuts.ca, or send an email to [email protected]


Best Regards

DB

 

[DJ_highst_]

this thread kicks ass, very helpful. joe a grower and too triv you guys rock.

 

[TheSource]

http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/Mnl/capMLC-4T.pdf

 

[Neptune]

Because many of us growers have abysmal wiring skills, we end up buying expensive bullshit like the CAP MLC 4 and 8. I have a 4.

I would say though, that for 10kw, you guys are really hurting yourself in those bigass veritcle soil tubes... This is basically a KFB room but without hydro benefit. If you're not yeilding 2lbs per plant, you need to do something different... If you are, don't change anything!!! lol

Serious, for all the troubble you guys have with dirt, it would do you well to spent the time to build the Krusty Buckets, which would take you a Saturday, no more no less.

Awesome dude, good info.

 

[DB2004]

240 volts

240 volts

by running them at 240v instead of 120v, that will also help you to save money, and you could actually run twice the same amount of lights at 240v than you could at 120v due to amps.

you can pull more amps on 240 then at 120[/QUOTE]

You do not use less amps wiring 240 volts. With 240 volts for a 1000 watt ballast, each of the 120 volts will draw @ 4.5 amps. There is no common/neutral, you are using both hots @ 120 volts. Many people are mis-informed in regards to this. Your ballasts will run a little more efficiently, and you will save some money on copper wiring, but that's it. The main service is usually rated at 100 amps, but this applies to 240 volts, with 100 amps for each 120 hot line.


Best Regards

Darryl

 

[Guest]

Serious, for all the troubble you guys have with dirt, it would do you well to spent the time to build the Krusty Buckets, which would take you a Saturday, no more no less.

no doubt!

-- Screw going 240V. There really isn't any good reason to do this.

i'd say balancing your main circuit is safer, i'd hate to have 10kw on one 120v leg. true about the timers too, but i use a a few relays and el-cheapo timer

here's a flop box... you may wanna make your own. its easy but time consuming

 

[Guest]

Thats a good point,the first I'd do if wiring 10K at 120V(which I'd never do) is take an amprobe to the two main feeders coming into the panel when under full load.At 240V besides running more effeciently and using less copper the load balance issue basically disappears.The problem will be evident in your service neutral.Is it warm to the touch?Your noodle is carrying the "unbalanced load".another words if you have 60A on leg "A" and 10A on leg "B" your neutral wire will be carrying 50A.Anoverloaded neutral due to an unbalanced panel is very dangerous,but you can set your mind at ease basically by feeling the neutral main,if its overloaded you'll know it.EDIT I want to add thats a bit hoakey if you know what I mean,but not everyone has an amprobe its not like a common vo0ltage tester.Feeling the noodle will give you an idea if there is any problem,but nothing can replace meters and testers,just wanted to make that clear lol

 

[StealthSniper]

I'm using a 10 Light Board with Aube timer that is working very well. I bought it from nowirenuts.ca

Good luck on your build.

SS