need serious help! keyword: INSULATION

[FRIENDinDEED]

right now things with my grow are halted due to my insulation dilemma. the dilemma specifically is i have no insulation to begin with!! my grow is in my garage which only has a portion of the wall finished. my needs are: cool during the summer and heat during the winter

there is a cross beam that pretty much divides the room in half and i want to section off a part (or rather teh back half) of the garage and use that as my man cave/ grow area which measures about (LxWxH) 12x10x10

the area is your basic garage, roof with no insulation/no electricity/no framing on the cinder block walls; it opens at both ends BUT the side that i am going to use has a garage door that needs to come down no matter how i look at things.

my plan:
-take the garage door off/down (its dilapidated so it has to come down anyway)
-frame out the doorway and simply cover it up with A/B grade ply wood (use a filler like "great stuff" to seal cracks/spaces)
-paint the outside of the plywood so it doesn't look too bad
-insulate the ceiling and the doorway once i board it up (heres where i have questions btw)
-install a vent fan with a temp control
-instal ventilation louvers near the bottom of the finished wall for air inlet (will take time/money, more so money)

***my main questions are about the insulation as far as what i can really use or need. ive seen the fiberglass batting and i know im going to need baffles for that BUT i learned about the more rigid board like type of insulation that i can put up like drywall and am really leaning towards that rigid type.

***at HD i noticed that the batting comes in types for floors, walls, or attics, im thinking that i need the one for the attic but am not sure.

***keeping heat out, being my main concern, is where i need to the most advice in regard to which one would be better and what R value i can get away with. ive read that R30 or higher would be best BUT can i get descent heat prevention with a lower value like the R19?

***the rigid insulation boards come in much lower R values and are much cheaper financially so would this be a good option to go with?

im pretty much doing a rough job for now, once i gain some capital then i can go hard and get things finished and wired up the way i want to. my overall/long term plans are to completely finish the garage with lighting, ventilation, painted floor, heavy duty wiring, frame out the walls, complete insulation, shelving ALLLLL of that

but for right now i just want to cut out a lil niche for myself so i can get back to growing.

as far as keeping things warm i have a small heater that would do wonders for that size of space and i figure with the lights and everything running there should be enough ambient heat to keep things jibing pretty well. once this space is complete im planning on getting rid of my cab and keeping my grow in the open space. part of my heat issues are due to the grow being in the cab and once i have my own space i really wont be needing it anyway.

since im using the cross beam as a divider im planning on putting up a 10x20 tarp to separate things. one side will be garage/storage space other side will be growing/man cave space. i don't want to do anything too permanent or costly like putting up a full wall just yet. for now a tarp to divide the room, insulation on the ceiling and walled up space,installing a vent fan,installing louvers for air inlet are what im really looking at to get the ball rolling. im gonna have to sell some stuff but if it takes me $200 to make $2000 then im all for it.

question, comments, suggestions are all welcome

 

[growshopfrank]

could i suggest spray in foam from one of the big box home improvement stores that may be your best bet IMHO

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

could i suggest spray in foam from one of the big box home improvement stores that may be your best bet IMHO

would that insulate against heat? is it cheaper/easier than buying the boards or using the batting?

 

[growshopfrank]

would that insulate against heat? is it cheaper/easier than buying the boards or using the batting?

the foam is more money but it is easy to install, with fiberglass or hard foam its hard not to have any loose seams or voids that defeat the purpose of insulating. with the spray foam you can lay down a nice even coat and seal everything air tight
another nice thing about the foam is bugs and rodents don't seem to care for it and it repels water
sound proofs too

 

[eyes]

you want to make a nice grow area in the garage that has cinderblock walls and a divider beam down the center? your best bet is to first get some dry lock. they have a new super duty one. paint all the inside of the blocks with this. this will prevent any moisture from wicking in thru the blocks into the grow conditioned space.paint the garage floor as well to stop moisture from coming up as well. since its a garage and has no radiant heating or foam board in the floor this is the best for now. id construct some 2x8 or 2x10 walls inside framing and fill the cavities with some john mansville insulation. any board that touches concrete has the abiltiy to wick moisture so check the concrete after using the dry loc . it should be good.once u construct your inner walls they should return a r20 or better. fiberglass is not my first choice. but its convienient. theres also some new stuff thats not fiberglass but a synthetic batting. look for that. i cant stand fiberglass. this will get you started.

 

[resinryder]

If you look at the bags the insulation come in, the r19 is for 2x4 studded walls, the r30 is for 2x6 walls. I just built my new room and used the r19 because I have the 2x4 walls. Thing is, if you build 2x4 walls and get the r30 that is meant for 2x6 walls. it's like fitting a fat chick that wears a size 28 into a size 8. Once you cut the bags of bats or rolls open they expand and you'll play hell squeezing the thicker insulation into a smaller space. Go with the r19 if you do 2x4 walls. It fills in the space between the studs nice and tight but with room to breath which is very much needed.
For electrical outlets- use 20 amp breakers with 12 gauge wire and 30amp breakers with 10 gauge wire.
Forget the insulation board. Not a good choice for what you are doing. If you're gonna do it do it right!!! If not you'll always regret it.
Just my 2cent.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

If you look at the bags the insulation come in, the r19 is for 2x4 studded walls, the r30 is for 2x6 walls. I just built my new room and used the r19 because I have the 2x4 walls. Thing is, if you build 2x4 walls and get the r30 that is meant for 2x6 walls. it's like fitting a fat chick that wears a size 28 into a size 8. Once you cut the bags of bats or rolls open they expand and you'll play hell squeezing the thicker insulation into a smaller space. Go with the r19 if you do 2x4 walls. It fills in the space between the studs nice and tight but with room to breath which is very much needed.
For electrical outlets- use 20 amp breakers with 12 gauge wire and 30amp breakers with 10 gauge wire.
Forget the insulation board. Not a good choice for what you are doing. If you're gonna do it do it right!!! If not you'll always regret it.
Just my 2cent.

good advice, when i finally am able to finish the garage i will remember to do the r19 for the walls. it just seems that my needs are pretty basic so the r30 seems to be more than i would want money wise

the electricity is fine for now for what im doing, electrician friend of mine came through and saved me from some major damage

my main concern is for the ceiling of the garage though since that's where most of the heat is coming from BUT i was in the garage earlier getting things together and had an epiphany . . .

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

you want to make a nice grow area in the garage that has cinderblock walls and a divider beam down the center? your best bet is to first get some dry lock. they have a new super duty one. paint all the inside of the blocks with this. this will prevent any moisture from wicking in thru the blocks into the grow conditioned space.paint the garage floor as well to stop moisture from coming up as well. since its a garage and has no radiant heating or foam board in the floor this is the best for now. id construct some 2x8 or 2x10 walls inside framing and fill the cavities with some john mansville insulation. any board that touches concrete has the abiltiy to wick moisture so check the concrete after using the dry loc . it should be good.once u construct your inner walls they should return a r20 or better. fiberglass is not my first choice. but its convienient. theres also some new stuff thats not fiberglass but a synthetic batting. look for that. i cant stand fiberglass. this will get you started.

the constructing of walls is what im trying to avoid. no real money to go into that right now, which is why i want to do the most cost effective/efficient thing or rather the cheapest thing that i can do to atleast get me through a grow

as far as the beam thing, i dont think you understood me but then again i may have explained it incorrectly as well (i think im going to just use my wifes camera)

the painting of the blocks sounds like a good idea, im going to have to price that and see how much it would cost.

im definitely gonna look into that synthetic batting as well!!

thanks alot for the advice!

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

the foam is more money but it is easy to install, with fiberglass or hard foam its hard not to have any loose seams or voids that defeat the purpose of insulating. with the spray foam you can lay down a nice even coat and seal everything air tight
another nice thing about the foam is bugs and rodents don't seem to care for it and it repels water
sound proofs too

awright brotha if your suggesting it then im gonna look into it as a viable option.

i know it sucks that i keep harping on it BUT money is really tight right now and i pretty much have to use what ive got to some degree. whatever i am able to muster up loot to buy HAS to be dead on the first time or its money down the drain. im not even robbing peter to pay paul, ive gotta rob both them motherfuckas to try and make this all work somehow, ya understand?

anyway, i will truly look into the spray foam

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

well i was in the garage rearranging things and did some closer looking at the garage door that's ready to be taken down and i think ive come up with a solution to keep from having to take it down /get rid of it/ then replace it with a new wall altogether.

i noticed that the garage door itself is flush up against the frame when its down (i dont know the first thing about garage doors so whatever i come upon is new to me!)

so heres why/how i would be killing 2 birds with one stone:

bird one - the door itself is old but the actual framing for the door is in really good condition, while i was looking at it, it seems that the panels stack onto each other and have slipped off of one another in certain places, its a very slight but noticeable slip that cause certain panels to shift.

bird two - ive already decided that im going to scrap the flower cab since it holds much of the heat that i am having a problem with anyway and just grow in the open space of the garage area that im getting together. ive had a pipe rack that i have kept, for only god knows how long, so it would be a good time to use it now.

the stone! - i measured the length of the garage door and its exactly 8' across, and there are 2 sides of the flower cab that are pretty much untouched save for a few holes made for eyelet hooks just in case i need to brace the plants if they ever got too heavy and they 4x8!!

so heres the plan: since i noticed that the door butts right up against the frame in going to try and stack the frames back on top of each other where they actually slipped off of one another, then im going to screw the outside perimeter of the actual garage door to the frame it is flush up against.

once i have reset the door so that the panels are sitting correctly on top of each other i'll brace by screwing frame of the door into the frame of the doorway, i am going to dismantle my flower cab (which i have to do anyway) and use the two walls by screwing them into the various points of the garage doors frame, seal it all around with the great stuff thereby giving me much needed privacy and insulation WITH THAT my problem would be ventilation and i could spend my money on a roof ventilation fan and be done with my problems with one item as opposed to buying a myriad of supplies!

OK guys, im going to call it a night, started at midnight and didn't stop until about 4:30am. once i took a look at the door itself and realized how sturdy it actually was, then realized that the flower cab walls are the same height the thought process kinda scrambled y brain a little, it was a lot to take in just that quickly

i am going to see about swiping my wife's camera so people cant get a better feel of what im talking about
***garage door description: its all wood and is built like a pane glass window, you know, the frame and then the glass sits in the middle of the frames BUT as with any/most garage doors there four rows of panels/frames and the 2nd row from the top is all glass which two of the glass panes broke many moons ago from me trying to lift it up that one time SO i decided to never try to move it again.

 

[growshopfrank]

the spray foam isn't crazy expensive recently did a 20' shipping container (walls and ceiling + partition wall but not floor) around 2" thick coat with a $400 DIY kit

 

[Vegan]

sounds vaugely familiar , the only thing worse than doing the job bad is having to do it over , im thinking this partition of yours is gonna be a heat trap for the lights and humidity. idk, how bout the camera just for giggles

 

[Jack452]

the spray foam isn't crazy expensive recently did a 20' shipping container (walls and ceiling + partition wall but not floor) around 2" thick coat with a $400 DIY kit

I've been thinking about converting part of a semi trailer and insulation is the first hurdle. Spray foam seems to make the most sense (for an initial layer, at least). Can I ask which brand you used? How user-friendly was it? Would you do anything different in hindsight?

Thanks for any help!

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

sounds vaugely familiar , the only thing worse than doing the job bad is having to do it over , im thinking this partition of yours is gonna be a heat trap for the lights and humidity. idk, how bout the camera just for giggles

im pretty much getting things together, the reality of it is there is nothing to get growing with and ive got to do other things in the interim and with winter coming up im not trying to get things up and running anytime soon.

the reason i started talking about the wall thing so much is that, the garage door is not only the source of great air/ minor light leaks its also a security risk. there isnt any crime on this block that im on although its "iffy" in very small pocket areas, but i dont want to give any manner of invitation to the wrong sorts of ppl with a flimsy ass garage door.

i basically have to choose what temps im going to want to deal with while i grow and i choose the heat. i generally done like the cold so it was the best option for me.

for right now i want to be able to ventilate the heat out somehow and bring the cool air in. insulation would help me out but im still going to need intake/out-take ventilation so for the meantime thats what i chose to focus on.

my thinking is that i can go the route of insulating my roof to keep heat out BUT cant i do the same thing with a descent ventilation system (cheap and sweet) that would work just as well? i need the place to sealed up so i can greater control over air/heat flow. a $80 roof vent fan, some intake vents and some cans of great stuff is what i can do in a lil while, but i $400 DIY foam kit (as "growshopfrank" suggested) is not something i can financially do right now.

now please correct me if im wrong in that thinking, i didnt start this thread to bare my chest and beat it if i think im right, i need to know if its a sound thought process for the mean time.

if could keep the place cool with just some air exchange then why go the route of cooling systems and air conditioners? biggest problem i have with the heat is that it has no where to go.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

the spray foam isn't crazy expensive recently did a 20' shipping container (walls and ceiling + partition wall but not floor) around 2" thick coat with a $400 DIY kit

im working on the picture thing as we speak but its not a a partition wall at all, i sue the cross beam of the rooftop as an aesthetic partition, that middle support beam that goes across the ceiling/roof is pretty much the center of the garage.

if they have a $100 version of it i can see that happening. i cant remember the space dimensions right now, and i thin i put them in the beginning of the thread. i come back and edit this post with the dimensions

 

[gurnt]

If it was me it's going to be cold at night in 5 weeks are so. Run the lights at night by the time your plants are done it will be but ass cold the lights are the best heat for cost
Go get some metal studs 1/8" pop rivets and 3/4 white foam insulation make 2 rooms veg /flower get a used heater are so and go.
As cash comes in then supp up the door add more insulation and move on

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

If it was me it's going to be cold at night in 5 weeks are so. Run the lights at night by the time your plants are done it will be but ass cold the lights are the best heat for cost
Go get some metal studs 1/8" pop rivets and 3/4 white foam insulation make 2 rooms veg /flower get a used heater are so and go.
As cash comes in then supp up the door add more insulation and move on

damned good advice! i did forget about the metals studs though, so used to using lumber

ive tried growing in the cold before and decided that its something i wouldnt do BUT im now looking at the space and im thinking that what you are saying about the lights being able to heat up the space may be feasible. this winter im going to test it out, run the lights at night on 12/12 sched and pop into the room from time to time to see what the temps are like. i have an old wall fan thats not used anymore that will be for circulation but still works and a space heater that we use during the winter for our living room so i may be able to use that from time to time. the whole "growing in the cold" thing is something that im going to have to test.

dont want to make two rooms really or rather not yet. its still in transition but i have a lil sitting area to chill and smoke in and the other side is where the growing will take place; first time ive actually had acomfortable grow/chill out/mancave area for myself. right now im just getting things together for use of what i have now which is hobby size IMO. 12 site DWC;400MH/HPS;gonna see about rigging up a small veg cab with the insulation boards ive been reading up on. ive got enough lumber laying around to make small shelf frame so the most expense im looking at is the cost of those insulation boards.

as you said, once the money starts to roll in THEN i will start to get things straight with the ENTIRE garage and setup a proper space garage wise and grow area wise with a sub-panel, flip-flops, dedicated space for veg and an enlarged area for flower. just taking it easy and doing what i can with what i have for right now. things are definitely coming along i must say. i just finished breaking down the old flower cab ans setting up the light rack and its even more comfortable in there now so much so that i almost fell asleep in there!

this weekend i will be using the old cab boards/walls to board up that dilapidated garage door for security reasons as well as grow space climate conditions. then during nxt week i'll go and buy the greatstuff to seal up everything. once i do that then i hang up the tarp to further seal it off from the rest of the garage besides some other sealing up work that needs to be done..

i have power back in there now so im gonna see about taking pics this weekend

 

[BingoBoy]

R-19 is used for 2x6 wall construction and is purposed as a sound barrier. It is compressed (nominal thickness is 6.25") and loses some thermal insulation value when installed in a normal thickness wall. R-21 is the best thermal choice for a 2x6 wall.

 

[ijim]

If you are on a budget but can afford insulating board. I would wrap the room in something like house wrap. Then seal all of the seams with a good tape like gorilla tape. Then cover the insulation with refletex and tape the seams with foil tape. All available at your big box store. You should have a tight room. Even if I used batt insulation and plywood. I would still wrap the room and use refletex. Just my thoughts.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

R-19 is used for 2x6 wall construction and is purposed as a sound barrier. It is compressed (nominal thickness is 6.25") and loses some thermal insulation value when installed in a normal thickness wall. R-21 is the best thermal choice for a 2x6 wall.

the walls im not too concerned with right now, its the ceiling that generates the most heat during the summer.

the walls would be my main concern if i were going to grow in during the winter season but ive chosen to not even go down that road.

maybe after i test the room out and see how it does with just the ambient heat created by the lights, ballast and other equipment then it can lead to a definite maybe for the 2013 winter but the 2012 winter im going let come and go.