Need help, just went to 12/12

[Guest]

This problem began 2 weeks or so ago. I was having problemsd with pH stability but that is OK now.

I am growing both AI (5)and Ice(4) in the same hydo ebb/flood tray. The Ice is not doing as well as the AI's are...as you will see below. I wont do 2 different strains again in a hydro.

Plants are 30 days old from seed cracking
about 12-13inches some AI a bit shorter.
400 watt HPS light
rez is about 16-17 gallons(18 gallon tote almost full)
Nutes was FoxFarm Grow Big @ 400-500PPM, switched 2 days ago TigerBloom@400PPM when i went 12/12
only other additive is epsom salts 2 tablespoons in rez
pH is holding at around 5.5 to 5.9
Air temps been holding in low 70's
RH stays between 30-45%

look closely at the green color of the newer growth. It is a lighter shade of green on the edges. This has eventually turned yellow, then brown. The Aurora Indicas haven't been bother as much. I did remove some badly damaged leaves 10 days ago. Mostly from the Ice plants. The water spots you see are residue from hydrated limewater I sprayed on the leaves thinking it was a Calcium deficiency. Didn't help, but didn't seem to hurt. I have no CalMag. Can't get locally. if it is Ca def.

PPM has never been more than 500. Could I be starving them? They are growing.

Anyone have any thoughts? Open the pictures up. they are much bigger and easier to see


Here are two pics of Aurora Indica


see larger older leaf center of pic and color on newer growth



another AI





and here is one of my Ice plants. damage is worse

 

[Blackvelvet]

You may be right about calcium trouble. Your adding about 50 ppm magnesium with the epsom salts (6 teaspoons divided by 16 gallons = .375 x 140 ppm in a teaspoon = 52.5) plus potassium from the tiger bloom. I don't think the fox farm nutes have very much calcium. I don't think the grow big has any at all. Potassium, magnesium, and calcium all compete to get in the plant. If you want to supplement the water with calcium and magnesium, try a gentle balanced approach. Just guessing 60 ppm calcium and 30 ppm magnesium. 1/4 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum and epsom salts per gallon of water. 16 gallon rez x 1/4 teaspoon = 4 teaspoons of each. Make sure the gypsum is powdered or better look on the bag and see if its hydrated It will say caso4 so much h2o this will help it disolve. Another good alternative to the gypsum could be calcium chloride. This might be in bottles under the name tomato blossom end rot stopper or something. Find net weight, total ml of bottle, and % calcium and we can can come up with a rate. 1/4 teaspoon calcium nitrate could also be used. If you come across cal mag plus, try 7.5 ml per gallon. Give me the npk numbers off the tiger bloom and we can come up with a rate. I forgot its like 2-8-4? I don't think the tiger bloom is the best fert you could be using in a hydro application.

 

[Guest]

BlackVelvet:

Thanks for the response This was the FF Nute I used vegging, never at more than 500PPM

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_liqfert1.html

here is the Tigerbloom link

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_liqfert2.html

links don't give micro data and I cant get to bottles. Night time for my plants now.

Notice I did NOT use that Grow Big for Hydros. Wasn't aware of it and the store didnt carry it.

I wondered about using the stuff for tomatoe Blossom End Rot. I have used that many times on tomatoe plants. Wasn't sure it(CaCl) would be OK on cannabis leaves. I could try a foliar treatment on my Icve plants which are worse off and if I do lose them it won't matter as much as losing my AI would. And the AI aren't suffering as bad, but I want them healthy. Im afraid of herming, bad yield, all the bad stuff from plants not healthy.

And I will get some gypsum too. Start out low dose as you recommend. It'll be inbtewresting to see what PPM TigerBloom should be. FF nutes also lower pH a good bit...or they have for me. Gotta watch it when mixing fresh nutes up

And is there a thread here showing how to calculate what PPM should be for a given nutrient like Tiger Bloom 2-8-4?

And I really do apreciate everyone helping me.

 

[Guest]

Well now I see that Ive been had by someone who is full of shit according to many on here. Anyone else want to help me out on my problem?

 

[Verite]

Sorry but BV/sproutco doesnt know crap about FF ferts even though I have schooled him frequently on their contents. Since I used them regularly I know Tiger Bloom has plently of calcium in the form of calcium nitrate. It also has plenty of magnesium [0.5%]

So heres what I see. Tiger Bloom is a primary fert [ most of everything you need ]and Big Bloom is a secondary. Your ppms should reflect that [ like 600-700 TB and 200-300 BB .. not meant for accuracy.. think ballpark range.]

The next thing I see is a complete overload of calcium and magnesium. If you are using regular tap water in your res then it already has plenty of cal and mag in it because hard tap water is loaded with calcium and magnesium. If you are supplimenting with more epsom [ mag ] then you are loading way more mag then you need to. Then if you sprayed them with hydrated lime you added more calcium to plants that have plenty.

Dial back on those toxic levels of calcium and magnesium and they should do better.

 

[legalizekindtok]

hey bro im thinkin you havin probs with your root zone... what color are your roots and what is your water temps lookin like?

 

[Guest]

Dial back nutes....

Verite:

Thanks for the heads up on you know who.

Yeah the water is hard here. Tap water reads about 50 PPM most days.

I'll lay off the Epsom salts when I change nute solution. Plants are in 1st week of 12/12. Think it would be OK to raise totall PPM to 800 PPM or so with ratio of Grow Big to Tiger Bloom approximately as you suggest?

Should I flush for 24 hours before I make up a fresh nute batch?

This chart fromm Fox farm any good? It says my nutes at this time are way too weak. Anyone have a comment on this chart?

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/HydroSystems_FF_Feed.pdf

 

[Guest]

Legalize...

The roots look very healthy....nice and white where they stick out of bottom of pot

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I never have used the FF formula when I used their nutes...just 5ml of TB and 15ml of BB along with some calmag, LK & carb product. Really never saw a need to swap the rez out either...just kept topping off to keep it at my desired PPM. Once I cut the ladies down, then I'd go in and clean the res out and start over.

I've had strains that didn't like more than 550ppm at finish and some that need at least 1000, so you'll just have to experiment with your plants to see what makes them happy.

 

[Blackvelvet]

Well now I see that Ive been had by someone who is full of shit according to many on here. Anyone else want to help me out on my problem?

The calcium chloride you would be adding to the water not a foliar spray. Since I am so full of shit, I won't help more....

 

[Blackvelvet]

I have schooled him frequently

Your kidding , right? To tell growers that use tap water to forget calcium and magnesium additions to their water is terrible advice. Rarely would tapwater satisfy a plants cal mag needs. I thought you said your a high school dropout? Maybe you should get your g.e.d. and come back some other time.

 

[Guest]

Your kidding , right? To tell growers that use tap water to forget calcium and magnesium additions to their water is terrible advice. Rarely would tapwater satisfy a plants cal mag needs. I thought you said your a high school dropout? Maybe you should get your g.e.d. and come back some other time.

Now cmon man lets not fight! Hard tap water does contain in junction with a good nute enough mag and calcium to keep most GANJA plants happy. Although some may want more. And blackvelvet for you to tell somebody that thier giving bad advice is just funny!

 

[Guest]

I'm tyhinking seriously of transplanting them to soilk in pots and just watering the fuckers

 

[Breezy420]

Your kidding , right? To tell growers that use tap water to forget calcium and magnesium additions to their water is terrible advice. Rarely would tapwater satisfy a plants cal mag needs. I thought you said your a high school dropout? Maybe you should get your g.e.d. and come back some other time.

In most cases when using tap water that is hard there is more than enough Calcium and Magnesium. I'd have to agree with verite on this one.

 

[Verite]

Your kidding , right? To tell growers that use tap water to forget calcium and magnesium additions to their water is terrible advice. Rarely would tapwater satisfy a plants cal mag needs. I thought you said your a high school dropout? Maybe you should get your g.e.d. and come back some other time.

Funny .. you know me about as well as you do growing plants. I graduated high school early [ I had enough credits to graduate three months into my senior year.] .. and I have an associates degree in computer science.

And I have shown you this link about 5-6 times now and you still manage to pickle your brain to the point of memory loss. Better go correct wiki sproutco and tell the world how wrong they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

.. Hard water water that has a high mineral content (water with a low mineral content is known as soft water). This content usually consists of high levels of metal ions, mainly calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) in the form of carbonates ... Total water 'hardness' (including both Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions) is reported as ppm w/v (or mg/L) of CaCO3. Water hardness usually measures the total concentration of Ca and Mg, the two most prevalent divalent metal ions... According to the United States Geological Survey, 85% of US homes have hard water ...

 

[Verite]

I would also like to point out that no where did I tell him to forget about cal/mag if he was using tap.. unlike sproutcos bad suggestion of telling the guy to use more cal/mag because he doesnt have a clue whats in Tiger Bloom or any other Fox Farm ferts.. I just pointed out that the guys already used plenty of cal/mag already and taking sproutcos advice of adding more would more than likely kill the plants.

 

[Breezy420]

Maybe he should add some tree stump remover...that was a classic one

 

[B.C.]

I would also like to point out that no where did I tell him to forget about cal/mag if he was using tap.. unlike sproutcos bad suggestion of telling the guy to use more cal/mag because he doesnt have a clue whats in Tiger Bloom or any other Fox Farm ferts.. I just pointed out that the guys already used plenty of cal/mag already and taking sproutcos advice of adding more would more than likely kill the plants.

uuumm,I'm gettin this strange feeling of Dejavu... LOL...Sound advice Verite.Good luck with rest of yer grow Oblidio,things will get easier for ya,hang in there! Take care...BC

 

[Guest]

Maybe he should add some tree stump remover...that was a classic one

I almost forgot about that one!

 

[krys0513]

I have been using FF nutes for about 5-6 months now....although currently I am on a break from growing indoors I had good results with the FF line. I would NOT suggest going from Hydro to soil though at this point. I have a friend who is running nothing but hydro currently and he is using FF line as well in my opinion best thing is to run strait water go get some DI water of course PH balanced to proper range for about 3 days...NO ferts at all.....just ph balanced DI water this will give the them time to heal once they are good and flushed then you can start adding ferts back into the mix.

It has been mine and my friends experience that when using the fox farm line they are pretty complete so really all you need in addition to the fox farm ferts is something to adjust your PH. What you choose to use to adjust the PH is up to you.