Need Co2!!!

[billbo]

proper co2 use use will result in mongo buds. This is my first post here but I have been growing for years and if you have all you ducks in a row co2 makes a big difference in yields


Yeah that's a two liter bottle between them...all pics of soil buds


No lost potency, co2 is cut off because some strains take longer to finish with the juice going the last ten days or so.

 

[omega7]

Hey billbo whats up bro. I remember that thread on OG. Very nice.

A cheap way to get some c02 to your plants is to get one of those c02 inflators and cartridges from a bike store and get a bike tire tube or 2 depending on the size of your grow. Now you are gonna poke holes in it. You can use a large needle or pin or a small nail. You might want to get an extra tube or 2 and experiment with size of holes and number of holes and how long they take to deflate the tube. Then you'll need to figure a way to attach the tube to the top of your grow, it will depend on your set up. I have used a few different ways, hanging it with string was the easiest. Once you have it attached or hanging above the plants just inflate the tube and let her blow. I suggest if you want to introduce c02 into your garden that you go with a real tank/injection/controller set up and that you have your garden dialed in. I just used this method mainly last summer when my temps went over 90 degrees due to my a/c breaking. Plants didint seem to suffer so I assumed the c02 injected twice during a light cycle (3 on really really hot days) kept them safe from the high ambient temps. Again this is not something to replace a tank or burner, just a way for the people who are gonna do the sugar yeast method anyway no matter what people say. A lot cleaner and easier.

 

[billbo]

hey omega7

Yeah its an old pic. I still use co2 though and love it. Helps yield in a less efficient big plant grow. I like to keep numbers as low as possible and use a simple multiflow that performs well nowadays.

I made an account here a while back and been reading my butt off here. Good grower's sharing and a bunch of oldtime OG'ers post more here than at OG. Less rift raft that's for sure.

peace

 

[Growdoc]

thanks for all the good info everyone, especially Fredster and Cap.

I'm using a 1000 watt hps and the temps in my room stays pretty warm(about 80).
Also, I dont have exhaust fans, just a common box house fan that runs all day.

I'll probably try the vinegar over baking soda with the fan off for an hour or two during the day, manually venting(opening the door)after the solution has completely dissolved and Co2 has been used.

Next go around I'll probaly upgrade to the tire inflator and co2 cartridges. thanks again everyone

The cheapest and best way for you to get CO2 to your plants is create a proper ventilation system, the one you have is a joke and a big fire hazard.

Cut hols in you wall ceiling or doors, find some free ducting some where and do this right, use your imagination a bit and it wont cost you shit.

The hole can be fixxed when you move, cause by then you will have some cash...

Not trying to be rude mate but a 1000 watt light with no ventilation is a DANGER!!!

 

[billbo]

Growdoc

I agree that any 1k system should have ventillation. Cheapest and easy way to deal with heat and supply adaquate amounts od co2. For enrichment to be a any benifit 'everything' must be dailed in to see big gains, A proper co2 system is hunderds of dollars more than a simple fan that will get the job done with good results. Hope I didn't sound like co2 is the only way to get nice buds. Nice to see you here

peace

 

[Guest]

billbo.....

:drool:

(add Homer Simpson drooling noise here)

 

[billbo]

Just looked at your 20wpsf grow...nice job! I love it when people show what can be done with light levels way below what is 'recommended" I've seen a few 20wpsf gardens and that's a good one

 

[MRTICKLE]

hey all,

I just put 20 skunks into flowering and am in need of co2 for my girls.
With the way my funds are right now, my only option is to make it myself.
I've heard alot about letting sugar and yeast ferment to produce it.

My question is, how much of the two do i need to produce a sufficient amout and how exactly do i go about mixing them. any advice is welcomed and needed! thanks.

yo i do not condone crime but there are an awful lot of pure co2 fire extigushers for sale and they can be refilled with no suspicion, or you could take one from somewhere, preferably from some government building or something antiestablishment to make you feel better about nicking it

mr tickle

i have used fire extingusters in the past i advise 1 second blast per plant per day with vents closed for 3-7 hrs then vent for rest of the time. start the dose 1hr after your lights turn on

 

[billbo]

yo i do not condone crime but there are an awful lot of pure co2 fire extigushers for sale and they can be refilled with no suspicion, or you could take one from somewhere, preferably from some government building or something antiestablishment to make you feel better about nicking it

mr tickle

i have used fire extingusters in the past i advise 1 second blast per plant per day with vents closed for 3-7 hrs then vent for rest of the time. start the dose 1hr after your lights turn on

Taking stuff that could save a life is more than silly...it's just dumb.

Beside the way your using it is next to worthless for increasing yield without knowing the amont supplied. So twice dumb....

 

[agent 420]

Ventilation is not really a problem in my room. I open the door and air out frequently. I'm probably in there about 5 to 7 times a day for 15 to 30 minutes at a time. My plants are never in danger. They get plenty of fresh air and are healthy.

I however want an increased level of Co2 as i've heard from many it puts on bud weight. I don't have enough money to buy an expensive system, don't want to steal anything(especially fire extinguishers), and cant drill a bunch of holes in my walls or ceiling.

If anyone has a cheaper/easier way to produce co2 besides the tire inflator/paintball cartridge or vinegar/baking soda methods, i'm all ears, otherwise I think i'll be okay for now.
thanks to everyone for their resonses.

 

[Growdoc]

Ventilation is not really a problem in my room. I open the door and air out frequently. I'm probably in there about 5 to 7 times a day for 15 to 30 minutes at a time. My plants are never in danger. They get plenty of fresh air and are healthy.

Ventilation
When making an artificial environment for plants the CO2 is used up very quickly…the higher the temp the faster the plants use CO2… in order to replenish the co2 one must have exceptional ventilation both in and out…most growers short them selves when it comes to ventilation…they buy something very cheap like bathroom out-takes or just open a window and hope for the best…when creating a artificial environment you have to make it as real as possible…think to yourself if I was a plant could I live here, and why would I want to live here??? If you can’t answer that then you should quite growing and go home…the needs of the plant are the most important not your wants as a grower…

 

[ultranoob]

All this talk of ventilation....I use a CO2 tank and do not ventilate at all. I don't vent/cool the lights either. The temps are around 79 degrees. Do I need to ventilate? Things seem to be fine so far, but this is my first time trying it.

 

[Guest]

Elevating carbon dioxide levels can increase growth speed a great deal, perhaps even double it. It seems that the plant evolved in primordial times when natural CO2 levels were many times what they are today. The plant uses CO2 for photosynthesis to create sugars it uses to build plant tissues. Elevating the CO2 level will increase the plants ability to manufacture these sugars and plant growth rate is enhanced considerably.

CO2 can be a pain to manufacture safely, cheaply, and/or conveniently, and is expensive to set up if you use a CO2 tank system. CO2 is most usable for flowering, as this is when the plant is most dense and has the hardest time circulating air around its leaves. If your strictly growing vegetatively indoors, (transferring your plants outdoors to flower), then CO2 will not be a major concern unless you have a sealed greenhouse, closet or bedroom, and wish to increase yield and decrease flowering time.

For a medium sized indoor operation, one approach is to used CO2 canisters from wielding supply houses. This is expensive initially, but fairly inexpensive in the long run. These systems are good only if your area is not too big or too small.

The basic CO2 tank system looks like this:

20 lb tank $100

Regulator $159

Timer or controller $10-125

Fill up $15-20

Worst case = $395 for CO2 tank setup synced to a exhaust fan with a thermostat.

CO2 is cheaply produced by burning Natural Gas. However, heat and Carbon Monoxide must be vented to the outside air. CO2 can be obtained by buying or leasing cylinders from local welding supply houses. If asked, you can say you have an old mig welder at home and need to patch up the lawnmower (trailer, car, etc.)

For a small closet, one tank could last 2 months, but it depends on how much is released, how often the room is vented, hours of light cycle, room leaks, enrichment levels and dispersion methods. This method may be overkill for your small closet.

It is generally viewed as good to have a small constant flow of CO2 over the plants at all times the lights are on, dispersed directly over the plants during the time exhaust fans are off.

Opportunities exist to conserve CO2, but this can cost money. When the light is off you don't need CO2, so during flowering, you will use half as much if you have the CO2 solenoid setup to your light timer. When the fan is on for venting, CO2 is shut off as well. This may be up to half the time the light is on, so this will affect the plants exposure times and amount of gas actually dispensed.

Environmentally, using bottled gas is better, since manufacturing it adds to greenhouse effect, and bottled CO2 is captured as part of the manufacturing process of many materials, and then recycled. Fermenting, CO2 MARIJUANAs, and baking soda and vinegar methods all generate new CO2 and add to greenhouse effect.

CO2 generation from fermentation and MARIJUANAs is possible. A simple CO2 MARIJUANA would be a propane heater. This will work well, as long as the gases can be vented to the grow area, and a fan is used to keep the hot CO2 (that will rise) circulating and available below at the plants level. Fire and exhaust venting of the heat are issues as well. A room that must be vented 50% of the time to rid the environment of heat from a lamp and heater will not receive as much CO2 as a room that can be kept unvented for hours at a time. However, CO2 MARIJUANAs are the only way to go for large operations.

Fermentation or vinegar over baking soda will work if you don't have many vent cycles, but if you have enough heat to make constant or regular venting necessary, these methods become impractical. Just pour the vinegar on baking soda and close the door, (you lose your CO2 as soon as the vent comes on). This method leaves a great deal to be desired, since it is not easy to regulate automatically, and requires daily attention. It is possible however, to create CO2 by fermentation, let the wine turn to vinegar, and pour this on baking soda. It's the most cost-effective setup for most closet growers, for whom $400 in CO2 equipment is a bit much to swallow.

In fermentation, yeast is constantly killing itself; it takes a lot of space. You need a big bin to constantly keep adding water to, so that the alcohol levels will not rise high enough to kill the yeast. Sugar is used quickly this way, and a 10 pound sack will run $3.50 or so and last about 2-3 weeks. This is also difficult to gauge what is happening as far as amounts actually released. A tube out the top going into a jar of water will bubble and demonstrate the amount of CO2 being produced.

Try sodium bicarbonate mixed with vinegar, 1 tsp: ~30cc- this will gush up all frothy as it releases CO2. do it just before you close the door on your plants. A MUCH cheaper way to provide CO2 is 2 Oz sugar in 2 liters of water in a bottle [sterilized 1st with bleach and water, then rinsed], plus a few cc urine[!] or if you insist, yeast nutrient from a home brewing supplier. Add a brewing yeast, shake up and keep at 25 deg celsius[~70 F] . Over next 2 weeks or so it will brew up about 1/2 Oz CO2 for every Oz sugar used. Keep a few going at once, starting a new one every 3 days or so. With added CO2 growth is phenomenal!!! I personally measured 38cm growth in 8 days under a 250watt HPS bulb[tubular clear, Horizontal mount.

A good container is a 1 gallon plastic milk jug, with a pin-hole in the cap. Also, the air-lock from a piece of clear tube running into a jar filled with water will keep microbes out and demonstrate the fermentation is working.

A variation is to spray seltzer water on the plants twice a day. This is not recommended by some authorities, and receives great raves by people who seem to feel it has enhanced their crop. It stands to reason this would work for only a small unvented closet, but may be right for some situations. It could get expensive with a lot of plants to spray. Use seltzer, not club soda, since it contains less sodium that could clog the plants stomata. Wash your plants with straight water after 2 or 3 seltzer sprays. It's a lot of work, and you can't automate it, but maybe that's good! Remember, being with the plants is a beautiful experience, and brings you closer to your spiritual self and the earth. Seltzer is available at most grocery stores (I get it at Lucky's @ .79 for a 2 litter bottle). Club soda will work if seltzer water is not available; but it has twice as much sodium in it. A very diluted solution of Miracle Grow can be sprayed on the plant at the same time. One factor of using selzter water is it raises humidity levels. Make sure your venting humidity during the dark cycle, or you could risk fungus and increased internode length.

CAUTION: Don't spray too close to a hot bulb! Spray downward only, or turn off the lamp first.

Even though CO2 enrichment can mean 30-100% yield increases, the hassle, expense, space, danger, and time involved can make constant or near constant venting a desirable alternative to enrichment. As long as the plant has the opportunity to take in new CO2 at all times, from air that is over 200 ppm CO2, the plants will have the required nutrients for photosynthesis. Most closets will need new CO2 coming in every two or three hours, minimum. Most citys' will have high concentrations of CO2 in the air, and some growers find CO2 injection unnecessary in these circumstances.

Some growers have reported to High Times that high CO2 levels in the grow room near harvest time lower potency. It may be a good idea to turn off CO2 2 weeks before harvesting.

Damn good post on CO2.

I would add optimal CO2 levels are 1,500 parts per million. Anything over 3,000 parts per million becomes toxic to plants and human life.

CO2 can kill you so becareful. CO2 displaces oxygen and asphixia or lack of oxygen is sending you on a ride to the pearly gates of heaven or the bowels of hell.

Here is what I use for a CO2 set-up with dual 1,000 watt air-cooled hoods (140 sq. ft grow room):

* 50 pound CO2 bottle purchased at Airgas *Note: Bottled gas suppliers can get nervous and even refuse to re-fill your bottles (liability). Airgas will perform tank seal checks as mandated by federal law every so many years for life. Cost: $220.00

* Solenoid/Regualtor (.1 to 25), CAP equipment. Cost:$130.00

* CAP PPM-3 CO2 montor/controller. Cost: $340.00

* Re-fills of CO2 every 4 weeks (running 10 hours per day). Cost $22.13

 

[Guest]

check out your local hydro shops and ask for co 2 tablets they are around 5 bucks each and last 8 hours. just toss them into water and they produce co2. i have a small space and use 1 a week. if i use sooner it burns my babies so i know it works. check around. 5 bucks is cheaper than what all these other nerds are talking about

 

[ultranoob]

What kind of increase in yield will CO2 provide? Or how much will it cut flowering time? Thunderbolts I have an identical setup to you. I'm wondering really what the benefit of CO2 is since this is my first time using it.

 

[Guest]

What kind of increase in yield will CO2 provide? Or how much will it cut flowering time? Thunderbolts I have an identical setup to you. I'm wondering really what the benefit of CO2 is since this is my first time using it.

Increases of around 25%++ and flowering times are a wee bit shorter (about a week).

When you hit the CO2 for the first time, just watch the plants react. You will be amazed. I use Co2 in veg where as some do not but to each their own.

CO2 is the shit.

 

[951medicinals]

Co2 cuts down the veg time and adds more nodes meaning more bud sites. I use it during veg also. smart man.

 

[eucerinop]

seems like an easier method of dispensing c02 from the little pellet gun, bike pump, or just tiny c02 cartridges would be to use a 'cracker'. Crackers can be purchased at headshops and are usually used by people to get high off of a form of n02 (laughing gas). The cartridge is intserted into a shell which is one half of the cracker, the other part screws onto the other half of the shell, but also has a point such as a nail to poke into the c02 cartridge as you tighten the two parts of the shell toward the cartrdige. the gas is then realeased either into the air or a balloon attached to the cracker. I would like to know how much each cartridge displaces though. any ideas?

 

[Verite]

Considering the whippet is pretty small I wouldnt guess the same size co2 cart would hold much.