I’m in hydro DWC and I grow my gg4 and everything else exactly the same way.
Need advice on how strong I should be feeding.
- Thread starter Loc Dog
- Start date
I used to do this as well, and everyone around me swore it was better than CA dispensary cannabis and anything else around. Then I sampled a few 1/8ths of very cleanly grown cannabis back in 2008.
Wow... what utter crap quality my "everything eats the same" hydro was in comparison.
99% of the cannabis using population has not experienced VERY cleanly grown cannabis before. It's rather a shock when you first come across it.
Nt
I used to do this as well, and everyone around me swore it was better than CA dispensary cannabis and anything else around. Then I sampled a few 1/8ths of very cleanly grown cannabis back in 2008.
Wow... what utter crap quality my "everything eats the same" hydro was in comparison.
99% of the cannabis using population has not experienced VERY cleanly grown cannabis before. It's rather a shock when you first come across it.
Yeah. There is a solution for that issue as well.
It's called water only organics and letting the plant feed itself based on it's own needs and removing the dummy human equation.
Loc - I know we have talked on and off over the years. I will hit you up before the end of the year. Until then, you really just NEED TO LEARN TO READ THE PLANT.
There is nothing the infirmary can't tell you. There is enough information on plant deficiencies even on this site alone, to TEACH you and educate you.
Empower yourself. If you KNOW what you have put into your nutrient formulations, then you know what should theoretically be present. The less is more approach, then gradually adding in additives while backing off A and B type feeds, allows you to see the difference.
When I was bottle feeding, that's exactly what I did until I hit a sweet spot. Tip burn is tip burn and over feeding is over feeding.
The reason it's so hard to tell you a defined set point, is because ENVIRONMENTAL conditions, influence plant growth rates and therefore nutritional demands.
No one can dial in your personal system, unless, you have literally built and set the exact same system as the persons results you are trying to reproduce. Phillthy taught me a TON about environmental controls and when I really dialed in the environment and kept it steady...TRULY steady...I was able to make a MUCH better assessment about what was going on nutritionally.
dank.Frank
Sorry, but the dummy human still has to ensure there's not excess available.
Cannabis is not some all magical plant when it comes to nutrition, it's actually a rather all absorbing plant, so if you're not careful it will happily absorb quality killing excess in the root zone.
Vegetables are much better at the "only absorb what you need" thing.
Morgan Seedman
New member
What is your light intensity (total wattage per area) and your pot size? CO2? Average temp? If you’re really pushing your plants you could feed up to 1500 ppm but most people stay around 1000 ppm for dark green vigorous plants. The best weed (in my experience) is produced around 1250 ppm. Don’t overload the PK (bloom boost) stay around 1 gram per gallon or less of powdered bloom boost and 6 grams per gallon or less of powdered base nutrients total. Taper the base down to around 4 grams per gallon around week 5 or 6 depending on strain. Taper down to around 2 grams per gallon around weeks 7 or 8 depending on strain. One to two week flush and you’ll be straight (very controversial topic)
Check the runoff on flush before you harvest it should be less than 700 ppm (preferably way less)
Sorry, but the dummy human still has to ensure there's not excess available.
Cannabis is not some all magical plant when it comes to nutrition, it's actually a rather all absorbing plant, so if you're not careful it will happily absorb quality killing excess in the root zone.
Vegetables are much better at the "only absorb what you need" thing.
The thing is, when done properly, cannabis, even though it is an accumulator, only does so when things are out of balance.
Root exudates --->bacteria--->raw amendments converted to proper ionic forms for uptake--->fungal pathways--->plant growth.
The plant is in control. What I posted above is an over simplification of the soil microbiome, but that's what's going on down there.
The plant isn't just going to "absorb" in excess unless there are some abiotic factors "telling" it to do so, driving that demand. The plant isn't absorbing alfalfa, kelp, etc. It IS however, going to absorb the excess of chemical salts in ionic forms, because it has no choice in that matter, as you have by passed the natural system designed to control that very thing.
To my knowledge, the only thing cannabis will inherently consume, is heavy metals. Which, is why input sources matters. Heavy metals are less likely to be absorbed at proper pH ranges by default and if the balance of ion and anions is proper, you lock out heavy metals entirely by not allowing for free exchange sites in the soil to make those bonds to begin with.
The biggest take away, for me at least, is these metals, if absorbed end up reaching potential homeostasis within the trichomes. Meaning, the more trichomes, the more room the plant has to store heavy metals.
dank.Frank
Rabbit manure will take care of the heavy metals, especially if you compost and then vermicompost it first. The amount of heavyweight humic substances will virtually eliminate heavy metals as a potential issue. YAAFAR (Yet Another Awesome Fact About Rabbits )
I see what you're saying about the balance, since all the research I've done agrees with what you're saying. Only when things are out of balance do the exudates reach such extremes of alkaline or acid in their search for what's missing. When this happens, just about everything becomes freely available so especially that in excess. I appreciate the clarification.
)I see what you're saying about the balance, since all the research I've done agrees with what you're saying. Only when things are out of balance do the exudates reach such extremes of alkaline or acid in their search for what's missing. When this happens, just about everything becomes freely available so especially that in excess. I appreciate the clarification.
Three Berries
Active member
Where are the heavy metals coming from? Polluted soil?
Hey! So I've grown in pretty much every medium and style from organic compost, organic amendments, canna a+b and coco, GH 3 part in promix, GH 3 part in coco, GH Micro+Bloom in coco, dwc, rdwc blah blah....But now I run coco exclusively.
Here what I've learned with coco and feeding. First off, coco is different than peat moss. It has 0 nutritional value, feels like peat, drains easier, holds less water and maintains a great air/water ratio. But it needs to stay wet! If you're getting over drying or light/dry coco rings at the top - things can go wrong almost instantly. Coco is hydro, would you let your DWC bucket go dry? No!
I've switched from GH 3 part to just micro and bloom with great results. I also use House of Gardens Drip clean and Mr Fulvic. I normally run 5ml/gal micro and 7.5ml/gal bloom. With my tap water this puts me right around 550-600ppm. ~1EC +/-. I cannot hand water as I run small container size and big plants, so I use a fertigation setup with pump-to-pvc manifold to 1/4" tubing/emitters. I fertigate 5-6x a day for 30s-2min depending on time, day, environment etc.
As many has stated with coco, less is more unless you run 1000ppfd and c02 above 800ppm. I do not. I usually keep my LEDs 18-24" from the tops and 60% for around 650-800ppfd. I do everything in coco - seeds, clone, veg and flower. I use my 5/7.5ml + 1ml fulvic for (almost)everything! Doesn't matter if it's for fresh cuts, mom's or switching to flower.
I feed my moms 5/7.5ml +1ml fulvic. When I switch to flower I usually put an additional 1ml-2.5ml calmag. You can use a 1-0-0 or 2-0-0 calmag if you want the first couple weeks of flower but I recommend a "no N Calmag" afterwards. I use the 5-7.5ml thru stretch (2-4 weeks) then I use 6/9ml + fulvic for mid-late and taper it back down to 0 for the last two days.
The most important part is to feed often, or enough to flush fresh nutes thru the medium at least once a day depending on needs. Personally, I run 1-2gal nursery pots with spray tip emitters (45s-1min) 5x a day and expect to see 10% runoff each time. My method can be considered wasteful (drain to waste) but it keeps O2 level optimal, fresh nutes plentiful, and flushing often. With this method and 5/7.5 - 6/9 I rarely see deficiencies (major ones) nor do I get buildup. One thing I've started doing for additional piece of mind is to flush 1-2 times thru the flowering cycle. That means week 3 and 6 I will run a container sized amount (usually 1 gallon) of fresh nutes with beneficials thru each plant. This ensures beneficial #s and also a good washing of the media.
I would say look at expected flowering times, if your plant needs 8-9 weeks, you should be ok with peak EC around 1.2-1.5 (600-800ppm) as long as you keep the media wet and flushing. If you're running a longer sativa (10-16 weeks) you can drop the numbers because they feed longer and require less EC over time.
I hope this helps. Let me know if I can clarify or expand on anything! Best of luck
Here what I've learned with coco and feeding. First off, coco is different than peat moss. It has 0 nutritional value, feels like peat, drains easier, holds less water and maintains a great air/water ratio. But it needs to stay wet! If you're getting over drying or light/dry coco rings at the top - things can go wrong almost instantly. Coco is hydro, would you let your DWC bucket go dry? No!
I've switched from GH 3 part to just micro and bloom with great results. I also use House of Gardens Drip clean and Mr Fulvic. I normally run 5ml/gal micro and 7.5ml/gal bloom. With my tap water this puts me right around 550-600ppm. ~1EC +/-. I cannot hand water as I run small container size and big plants, so I use a fertigation setup with pump-to-pvc manifold to 1/4" tubing/emitters. I fertigate 5-6x a day for 30s-2min depending on time, day, environment etc.
As many has stated with coco, less is more unless you run 1000ppfd and c02 above 800ppm. I do not. I usually keep my LEDs 18-24" from the tops and 60% for around 650-800ppfd. I do everything in coco - seeds, clone, veg and flower. I use my 5/7.5ml + 1ml fulvic for (almost)everything! Doesn't matter if it's for fresh cuts, mom's or switching to flower.
I feed my moms 5/7.5ml +1ml fulvic. When I switch to flower I usually put an additional 1ml-2.5ml calmag. You can use a 1-0-0 or 2-0-0 calmag if you want the first couple weeks of flower but I recommend a "no N Calmag" afterwards. I use the 5-7.5ml thru stretch (2-4 weeks) then I use 6/9ml + fulvic for mid-late and taper it back down to 0 for the last two days.
The most important part is to feed often, or enough to flush fresh nutes thru the medium at least once a day depending on needs. Personally, I run 1-2gal nursery pots with spray tip emitters (45s-1min) 5x a day and expect to see 10% runoff each time. My method can be considered wasteful (drain to waste) but it keeps O2 level optimal, fresh nutes plentiful, and flushing often. With this method and 5/7.5 - 6/9 I rarely see deficiencies (major ones) nor do I get buildup. One thing I've started doing for additional piece of mind is to flush 1-2 times thru the flowering cycle. That means week 3 and 6 I will run a container sized amount (usually 1 gallon) of fresh nutes with beneficials thru each plant. This ensures beneficial #s and also a good washing of the media.
I would say look at expected flowering times, if your plant needs 8-9 weeks, you should be ok with peak EC around 1.2-1.5 (600-800ppm) as long as you keep the media wet and flushing. If you're running a longer sativa (10-16 weeks) you can drop the numbers because they feed longer and require less EC over time.
I hope this helps. Let me know if I can clarify or expand on anything! Best of luck
Even though it would not surprise most folks to find old batteries, motor oil and whatnot in the soil around the average house, it does surprise me how many people simply amend unknown soil and grow cannabis in it.
Soil, ferts, amendments, where you find heavy metals in the media you will find cannabis plants concentrating it. I've even read reports of "Cadmium Safe" soils producing cadmium polluted cannabis.
Three Berries
Active member
I would understand that with using native dirt but not commercial soil mixes.Even though it would not surprise most folks to find old batteries, motor oil and whatnot in the soil around the average house, it does surprise me how many people simply amend unknown soil and grow cannabis in it.
Soil, ferts, amendments, where you find heavy metals in the media you will find cannabis plants concentrating it. I've even read reports of "Cadmium Safe" soils producing cadmium polluted cannabis.
Yes. It can be industrial. Natural (I mean, we mine these things from the ground to begin with.) Air quality. (general air pollution) etc, etc, etc.
It's part of earth. It's part of growing anything. It's why sourcing materials matters.
What separates "commercial" soil vs native? Nothing but a label.
dank.Frank
Three Berries
Active member
I don't think commercial soil mixes are full of heavy metals. They do have to be considered their clients will be growing vegetables in them. Same with the nutes. Not going outside and digging up dirt to bring in. Lead has been banned for 50 years.
FUD.....
Here's an article discussing it. If the product is using recycled material then there is a heavy metal chance. I wonder of ProMix or FoxFarm use recycled material?
pittmoss.com
FUD.....
Here's an article discussing it. If the product is using recycled material then there is a heavy metal chance. I wonder of ProMix or FoxFarm use recycled material?
The Danger of Heavy Metals in Potting Soils - PittMoss
In an EPA funded study (Contract 68D60035) newspapers and advertising materials from 48 publishers were analyzed and ALL were considered safe and well below tolerance limits. The current production of paper and the use of soya-based ink greatly reduces the possibility of contamination. Most...
pittmoss.com
If you are worried about the soil you are using around your home, get it tested. It's not hard to do. Send it to a lab.
No one has to guess about it. This really isn't much of a concern unless you are trying to grow / farm / source from an old industrial site.
Promoting the idea the soil around the house is "always tainted" is really a poor concept that basically lays waste to the idea of a backyard garden of any type.
I would never promote the idea that "victory gardens" aren't safe, and the only way to grow anything is by being beholden to some various corporate interests.
dank.Frank
No one has to guess about it. This really isn't much of a concern unless you are trying to grow / farm / source from an old industrial site.
Promoting the idea the soil around the house is "always tainted" is really a poor concept that basically lays waste to the idea of a backyard garden of any type.
I would never promote the idea that "victory gardens" aren't safe, and the only way to grow anything is by being beholden to some various corporate interests.
dank.Frank
As I said, soils labeled "Cadmium Safe." Where do you find native soil bagged and labeled cadmium safe? *facepalm*
Grow whatever the fck you want in your backyard, just try and test the damn spots you're planning on growing cannabis. It isn't a damn vegetable and it makes a difference in the health of those who use it.
Test regardless. Why grow food in
Good to see you are still here and present, F.A.M.
dank.Frank
Thanks for giving this guy a real answer. I didn't mean to redirect the conversation, but I tend to do that. Loc and I have talked on and off for years. He's a good dude.Hey! So I've grown in pretty much every medium and style from organic compost, organic amendments, canna a+b and coco, GH 3 part in promix, GH 3 part in coco, GH Micro+Bloom in coco, dwc, rdwc blah blah....But now I run coco exclusively.
Here what I've learned with coco and feeding. First off, coco is different than peat moss. It has 0 nutritional value, feels like peat, drains easier, holds less water and maintains a great air/water ratio. But it needs to stay wet! If you're getting over drying or light/dry coco rings at the top - things can go wrong almost instantly. Coco is hydro, would you let your DWC bucket go dry? No!
I've switched from GH 3 part to just micro and bloom with great results. I also use House of Gardens Drip clean and Mr Fulvic. I normally run 5ml/gal micro and 7.5ml/gal bloom. With my tap water this puts me right around 550-600ppm. ~1EC +/-. I cannot hand water as I run small container size and big plants, so I use a fertigation setup with pump-to-pvc manifold to 1/4" tubing/emitters. I fertigate 5-6x a day for 30s-2min depending on time, day, environment etc.
As many has stated with coco, less is more unless you run 1000ppfd and c02 above 800ppm. I do not. I usually keep my LEDs 18-24" from the tops and 60% for around 650-800ppfd. I do everything in coco - seeds, clone, veg and flower. I use my 5/7.5ml + 1ml fulvic for (almost)everything! Doesn't matter if it's for fresh cuts, mom's or switching to flower.
I feed my moms 5/7.5ml +1ml fulvic. When I switch to flower I usually put an additional 1ml-2.5ml calmag. You can use a 1-0-0 or 2-0-0 calmag if you want the first couple weeks of flower but I recommend a "no N Calmag" afterwards. I use the 5-7.5ml thru stretch (2-4 weeks) then I use 6/9ml + fulvic for mid-late and taper it back down to 0 for the last two days.
The most important part is to feed often, or enough to flush fresh nutes thru the medium at least once a day depending on needs. Personally, I run 1-2gal nursery pots with spray tip emitters (45s-1min) 5x a day and expect to see 10% runoff each time. My method can be considered wasteful (drain to waste) but it keeps O2 level optimal, fresh nutes plentiful, and flushing often. With this method and 5/7.5 - 6/9 I rarely see deficiencies (major ones) nor do I get buildup. One thing I've started doing for additional piece of mind is to flush 1-2 times thru the flowering cycle. That means week 3 and 6 I will run a container sized amount (usually 1 gallon) of fresh nutes with beneficials thru each plant. This ensures beneficial #s and also a good washing of the media.
I would say look at expected flowering times, if your plant needs 8-9 weeks, you should be ok with peak EC around 1.2-1.5 (600-800ppm) as long as you keep the media wet and flushing. If you're running a longer sativa (10-16 weeks) you can drop the numbers because they feed longer and require less EC over time.
I hope this helps. Let me know if I can clarify or expand on anything! Best of luck
Good to see you are still here and present, F.A.M.
dank.Frank
Still lurking...
RR. YESSSSS.
More F.A.M.
dank.Frank
More F.A.M.
dank.Frank
Three Berries
Active member
LOL OK I'm talking about what most use inside. Not outside grows. Promix, FoxFarm. Reading up on the ProMix it can be considered organic grow.
