Name that deficiency

[pico]

Right around day 10 in flowering I believe.

3" rockwool cubes
room temps 75-90 during day, 60-70 during night
Clones were vegged for around a week under a small light.
Co2 around 1000 ppm
Watered once a day
omega garden, dual 600w ebb/flow system

First watering in omega for flowering they were given
15ml per gallon Pure Blend Pro Bloom
5ml per gallon CalMag+
That gave me an EC of 1.4 and a ph of 6.24
I then added Liquid Karma @ 15ml per gallon
That gave me an EC of 1.8 ph 6.12
I also used 10ml gallon Hydroguard

That seemed to be a bit hot for the plants because after a few days they had claw like symptoms. I added 10 gallons of water at half strength of the above nutes at day 4. That dropped my EC down to 1.3

Day 7 I added 5 gallons with no nutes to bring my EC down to 1.1

DAy 8 I added another 5 gallons of straight water. I also added 20ml of Hygrozyme and 20ml of mineral matrix (res is around 20 gallons). My EC still showed 1.1 after this. pH stable at 6 with no adjustments.

Day 9 I foliar fed with Nitrozyme at lights on at 2 TBL per gallon. Used a wetting agent. Tested res and the EC rose to 1.2 so I added water to bring down to 1.1 again. pH stable at 6.05. I also added 20ml more of Hygrozyme.

OK so nothing is looking too terible. In fact most of the plants look pretty good. But here are pictures of what I am looking at.















Some yellowing of lower leaves. Some rusty spots on middle leaves. I think the plants might look a little too green, not sure. Mg def?

I am thinking I need to flush and change the res. I think I overferted a bit and then wattered it down too much. I also think I want to be using PBP soil bloom and not the hydro stuff.

What do you guys think?

Here is what the plan is for tomorrow
Clearex flush

then

10ml per gallon PBP soil bloom
10ml per gallon Liquid Karma
1ml per gallon mineral matrix
5ml per gallon hydroguard
2ml per gallon hygrozyme
liquid lime for pH up and calcium


Anyone have any better ideas?

thanks,
pico

 

[sproutco]

Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil
1.5-4-5
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 42
P 49
K 116
Mg 14
Ca 28

You should aim for 4:2:1 potassium to calcium to magnesium. You need 60 calcium and magnesium 30. Using 10ml of pbp bloom soil, you should add 5ml cal mag plus to increase mag by 15 and calcium by 40. Or, add 1/8 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum + epsom salts. This would increase cal by 30 and mag by 15. Sodium hydroxide makes a better ph up than lime or whatever. Does not require much and wont throw off the nutrition ratios. See how to make your own "ph up and down" in my signature.

 

[pico]

sproutco, thanks for the reply. I was going to stop using CalMAg+ because I heard it was mediocre at best. Aparently it is hard to get calcium and magnesium in a stable form in a bottle so it has to be really chemmy. Was also told that the form of Nitrogen in there is not what I am looking for.

Mineral matrix was reccomended to me along with the liquid lime.

what defficiency does that look like in the pictures? bottom one shows it best i think.

thanks

 

[sproutco]

Cant tell by the photo whats wrong. The cal mag plus is ok. Nitrogen in it is nitrate which plants prefer. Not ammonia or urea nitrogen. You can always use the epsom /gypsum combo instead. This does not add nitrogen. Although you are in flower, I still think the cal mag plus adding nitrogen would benefit you because the 10 ml pbp bloom soil only has about 40 ppm nitrogen and should maybe be closer to 75 ppm or so. I think you could have your potassium closer to 200. Stump remover (potassium nitrate 13-0-44) might be good to use). Grant's, high yield, and greenlight are some brands but there are others. Just check the label at hardware stores. Use 1/8 teaspoon per gallon of water along with the 10 ml pbp bloom soil. This adds 23 n and 67 more potassium. Do use the epsom and gypsum if you do this so you do not add more nitrogen that you dont need. This is what cal mag plus would do. If you add potassium from the potassium nitrate, add 1/4 teaspoon of both epsom and gypsum instead of the previous rate of only 1/8 teaspoon.

 

[Guest]

omega garden its seems like a pain in the ass...is this your first run with it?

 

[pico]

I like the sound of this mineral matrix stuff. Plus it has .02% boron which you have been talking about recently. Notice how there is no calcium. That is why I would use the liquid lime. I guess I could use gypsum if that was better.


Mineral Matrix
"Organic micronutrient supplement formulated to correct deficiencies for all organic crops, hydroponics systems, container plants and landscapes. Citric acid chelated for stability and availability and improved plant uptake. Safe and natural, non-phytotoxic formula. Highly effective as a foliar spray or watered in to soil, soil less or hydroponic root zone applications. Nothing quite like this has ever been available before."


Guaranteed Analysis:

Soluble Potassium (K20)……..…………1%

Magnesium (Mg)………………………0.5%

Sulfur (S)…………………………………3%

Zinc (Zn)………………………………….3%

3% Chelated Zinc

Iron (Fe)………………… …..…………..2%

2% Chelated Iron

Manganese (Mn)………………………….2%

2% Chelated Manganese

Copper (Cu)……………...……………0.05%

0.05% Chelated Copper

Boron (B)………...……………………0.02%

Molybdenum (Mo)………...……….0.0005%



Derived From: Langbeinite, Sodium Borate, Copper Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, and Chelated with Citric Acid

http://www.greenair.com/bio-genesis.htm#Bio-Genesis Mineral Matrix

 

[sproutco]

Sure that's 3% zinc not .3%? Follow my previous instructions. This stuff is wacky.

 

[pico]

unicorn- yes it is my first run with the omega. yes it is a pain in the ass to setup. I don't have to do anything right now except dial in my nutes so it seems to be easy to use once everything is going.

Yeah some of those percentages threw me off as well. But it came highly reccomended and it is organic and vegan. Not sure if you can say the same about stump remover. Not that I give a shit if something is vegan.

If I wanted to up my potasium I would just up my nute strength. I plan on using 15ml per gallon of PBP soil bloom once they can take it. I was just was going to take it easy while still young.

15ml PBP soil bloom gives me

N 68.205
P 79.305
K 188.7
MG 22.74
CA 45.465
FE 0

Still need calcium and magnesium.

The numbers actually look great with 16ml pbp soil bloom, 10ml liquid karma, 6ml calmag+, 2ml sweet

N 106.652
P 85.792
K 212.38
MG 52.856
CA 98.296
FE 1.9

But I don't know if I want to use calmag because it makes my pH unstable. Plus I was told it was crap. But if I used Sweet instead and then 1/4 tsp of gypsum I think that might work out.

15ml pbp soil bloom, 10ml liquid karma, 6ml sweet, 1/4 tsp gypsum
N 70.905
P 80.505
K 199.8
MG 52.74
CA 105.465
FE 1.2

 

[sproutco]

You got the right idea. If your basing the ppms by the bottle, note what the k and p is expressed as. If its k2o then multiply by .83 to get just k. IF its p2o5 then multiply by .43 to get just p. The calculator in my signature does this for you if you use bottle weights, total ml of bottle, etc...

 

[pico]

Those numbers are from pH's calculator. I used the calculator to get the ppm per ml for each of the elements. The spreadsheet rounds some of the numbers so to make my figures more accurate I used 1000ml per gallon in the spreadsheed and then devided all the ppm by 1000.

I then put all those numbers in a spreadsheet, did a little spreadsheet programming/math it gives you the ppm for each element when given the ml per gallon of each botanicare product used.

Try it out. It makes things easy. Only change the values in the red box.

http://stashbox.org/6365/botanicarespreadsheet.xls

 

[MynameStitch]

your plants are saying its to high bring it down to 800 untill they get bigger, those are to small of plantsx to have that and the plants are showing it form the dark green claw like symptoms you got way to much nutrients in there as it is

 

[pico]

stitch-

My nutrients are at like 1.1 EC so I don't think they are being overdosed right now. They have been at 1.1 since 5 days or so ago when I noticed I overferted. New growth came in looking good after I lowered to 1.1 now I think they are getting some sort of deficiency.

 

[Blackmelo]

nah I doubt it is a deficiency since you overferted them massively by the sound of things. I'm surprised your plants look as good as they do.

One thing I would worry about is the change from 90 degrees to 60 every day. That can cause leaves to look a bit faint.

Omega looks like a pain in the arse but I guess yield is higher. Gl with that.

 

[pico]

I never said I massively overferted them. I believe I said it was a 'bit hot'.

So I decided to not to follow anyones advice here. I felt that they were not being overferted at 1.1 EC (550 ppm .5 conversion).

I flushed with clearex, cleaned system and changed res
15ml /gal pbp soil bloom
5ml /gal sweet
10ml /gal liquid karma
5ml /gal hydroguard
10ml liquid lime
some fulvic acid for pH down
EC1.5 pH 6
That was 5 days ago. topped up full strength the other day


Various pictures from the past week.

 

[Verite]

Imo 6.0 and higher ph is kinda high for decent hydro nute feeding levels. The sweetspot is somewhere between 5.5 and 6.0

 

[pico]

Thanks verite. I will try that on my next nute change. I am thinking about using 20ppm of soil bloom next res change and that would drop the pH a couple points I think.

 

[pico]

So I changed my pH to 5.8 and topped up my res to make it 1.8 EC. It did get a little cold out but I seem to be having a massive Potassium defficiency (I think that is what it is) that happened almost immediately.

What the hell? Any ideas?

 

[sproutco]

Still using liquid lime? That might not be the best source of calcium and magnesium. I don't think this is k def.

 

[pico]

Yeah I am still using the Liquid Lime. Barely any at all.

This isn't the first time I have had the res at 1.8. Do you think that by changing the pH to 5.8 that it increased uptake? Or do you think it might just be time for another flush? I flushed around 10 or 11 days ago. This is my first time with rockwool.

Also, how dry should I be letting these cubes get?


Sproutco, is gypsum readily available calcium source in hydro? Can you show me anyone on here that is successfully using it?

So after I posted this last night I decided that I better play it safe and lower EC to 1.2. Still, picture 3 looks exactly like K def.

Thanks

 

[sproutco]

Sproutco, is gypsum readily available calcium source in hydro? Can you show me anyone on here that is successfully using it?


Thanks

Me and B.J. use it.




Haters don't know who sproutco is................