Alfalfa too, around 3-1-2 if I remember correctly, but it can be high in nitrates (depends who farmed it). Along with kelp and molasses in the mix, you don't really need any rocks. If you reuse your soil, the trimmings from your plants should have as much K as kelp or alfalfa.
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N-P-K in organic. What can i get K from?
- Thread starter jrelax
- Start date
1. Wood ash
Especially high K wood ash, which is often derived from banana peels or similar high K containing material.
2. Langbeinite
Potassium, magnesium and sulfate, which also has high Sulfur (useful for terpenes from mid-flowering onwards) and some magnesium (chlorophyl) in it. Also sold as as PatentKali. Organically allowed, however it is not mined and especially processed in a way that is ecologically sound. I have used it, and it is probably ok, however I don't like the smell of the PatenKali - a little chemical, unlike say epsom salt or Kieserite. Down To Earth is a product that has an NPK of 0-0-22.
3. Weeds
The highest in potassium content are Lambsquarter and Pigweed.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...urself_Homemade_Plant_Fertilizers_Revised.pdf
They can be soaked in water like Comfrey. I haven't tried it myself yet, however maybe a sugar extraction can be made from it, although they usually recommend extractions from sweet fruit only.
https://www.unconventionalfarmsupply.com/bloom-fertilizer
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T
Teddybrae
Tanzanian Magic seems to have a lot of gardening tricks in his bag. What do you say to this TM .... ?
Wood Ash may require a LOT of acidifying ... so also Sulphur.
Bokashi Banana leaves for K
Cheers from the Land of Oz!
Wood Ash may require a LOT of acidifying ... so also Sulphur.
Bokashi Banana leaves for K
Cheers from the Land of Oz!
To a degree, you can use wood ash instead of lime.
The best thing is to mix it into a super soil, then let the supersoil rest for a month or so. Eventually it all goes to a neutral pH.
Also, the more organic material is put into a soil mix, the more woodash or lime you need to keep the pH from crashing.
There is an excellent book on this style of trading by The Rev, called True Living Organics: The Ultimate Guide to Growing All-Natural Marijuana Indoors.
He lists lots of organic sources for nutrients. I used his growing style, and have simplified my method into basically companion planting cannabis and mycorrhizal fungi. I basically use a pot with a reservoir, with drainage, then super soil, then light soil, then a light sprinkling of calories in the form of oat flakes and a lengthwise sliced banana, and then a thin layer of mulch, usually cannabis bedding.
This style does what plants try to do, which is protect mycorrhizal fungi in the soil (using it's drip line to prevent impact from rainfall), and feeding it what it does not produce itself - carbon (dead roots, leaves) and calories (basically fat, protein and carbohydrates from seeds, nuts, fruits, and even roots).
All the nutrients needed to grow the plant are in the super soil, and the rest is to feed the fungi with enough energy and carbon so it can go and get those nutrients and feed them to the plant.
The mulch layer allows the roots to grow much closer to the surface and reduces or eliminates the need for top watering.
""Also, the more organic material is put into a soil mix, the more woodash or lime you need to keep the pH from crashing. ""
Imo and experience organic matter stabilizes pH. Also this is written in scientific literature.
Imo and experience organic matter stabilizes pH. Also this is written in scientific literature.
I think perhaps he made an indirect correlation between an increase in organic matter leading to a increase in CEC. Higher CEC soils, do tend to take more liming material to increase or more sulfur to decrease pH. The same could also be said of soils high in clay colloids as well.
That aside, organic matter is indeed a buffer and prevents soil acidification by releasing those positively charged cations into the media as needs. Soils with low CEC, or low in organic matter, tend to suffer from leaching of these same cations and therefore, are more subject to a decrease in pH.
dank.Frank
That aside, organic matter is indeed a buffer and prevents soil acidification by releasing those positively charged cations into the media as needs. Soils with low CEC, or low in organic matter, tend to suffer from leaching of these same cations and therefore, are more subject to a decrease in pH.
dank.Frank
Here is how understood it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Organic matter as in humus will indeed act as a pH buffer. Also the humic/fulvic acids in humus will act as chelators to make nutrients even available in a wide pH range.
But organic matter as in the sense (of several types, not all) of amendments (organic fertilizers) will overtime acidify the soil when they break down to humus and feed the plant.
Also the exchange of a Hydrogen Cation for a Nutrient Cation by the plant roottips can (in moderate amounts) acidify the soil. However the plant tries to balance this a bit.
Liming or the use of alkaline/buffering amendments will counteract the acidification.
Personally I use bonemeal and woodashes during flowering to buffer my soil.
And I also make sure I have plenty of humus and some clay particles mixed into my soil for buffering and a good CEC value.
I think acidification is more common during veg and the use of high N fertilizers. But I could be wrong on this part.
Interesting study:
Soil acidification and the importance of liming agricultural soils
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5032897/
Another interesting article:
Understanding pH management and plant nutrition
https://www.firstrays.com/PDF/Part 3 - Fertilizers.pdf
Organic matter as in humus will indeed act as a pH buffer. Also the humic/fulvic acids in humus will act as chelators to make nutrients even available in a wide pH range.
But organic matter as in the sense (of several types, not all) of amendments (organic fertilizers) will overtime acidify the soil when they break down to humus and feed the plant.
Also the exchange of a Hydrogen Cation for a Nutrient Cation by the plant roottips can (in moderate amounts) acidify the soil. However the plant tries to balance this a bit.
Liming or the use of alkaline/buffering amendments will counteract the acidification.
Personally I use bonemeal and woodashes during flowering to buffer my soil.
And I also make sure I have plenty of humus and some clay particles mixed into my soil for buffering and a good CEC value.
I think acidification is more common during veg and the use of high N fertilizers. But I could be wrong on this part.
Interesting study:
Soil acidification and the importance of liming agricultural soils
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5032897/
Another interesting article:
Understanding pH management and plant nutrition
https://www.firstrays.com/PDF/Part 3 - Fertilizers.pdf
I'm talking about undecomposed material like alfalfa pellets/meal, etc.
What happens is that if there is decomposition and oxygen runs out, you get anaerobic decomposition, which favors anaerobic fungi, which like a very low pH, like 4. That's why pH crashes when roots are burned. Also, a lot of soil mixes will have peat in them, which has a low pH for the same reason, anaerobic decomposition, compared to coco coir, perlite or grow rocks.
Lime and of course woodash can help mitigate that.
Also, if you grow naturally - i.e. have bugs in the soil - then they too will take a lot of the calcium to make their skeletons.
It's just a good idea to have a little extra calcium in the soil mix.
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T
Teddybrae
Thank you so much for this last, Mr Magic. You have provided an interesting link for me as to what goes on in my forest re fungal decomposition. When I test the soil brought from the forest it is always acid, often to a pH of 4. Yet healthy decomposition is apparent everywhere. You have explained this apparent contradiction for me!
Certainly there is going to be a pH imbalance if you mix in uncomppsted organic matter. I wasn't really thinking in those terms I was thinking more in terms of a living soil so in that sense yeah you're correct.
In terms of a living soil one would be top-dressing raw organic matter which as it broke down would not make the soil swing radically in pH.
As far as the soil solution pH goes this swings radically from minute to minute hour to hour day to day but over all the general pH stabilizes using living soil techniques of adding organic material.
At least that's my take.
This was dictated so I'm blaming any errors on that.
In terms of a living soil one would be top-dressing raw organic matter which as it broke down would not make the soil swing radically in pH.
As far as the soil solution pH goes this swings radically from minute to minute hour to hour day to day but over all the general pH stabilizes using living soil techniques of adding organic material.
At least that's my take.
This was dictated so I'm blaming any errors on that.
One point is that I've always found peat mixes mixed on farm with topsoil to not require lime buffering. This is likely due to the high CEC of peat moss and diverse microbial populations
CrushnYuba
Well-known member
Manures are pretty balanced to start. Allot if my mixes start with chicken manure 3-3-2 or 4-3-2 as a base and then i build off that. When i need more i usually use potasium sulfate or labeinite (Potasium magnesium sulfate).
Good chicken shit like shutzman farms can be your main amendment. Kelp is high in k but a little out of my price range.
Good chicken shit like shutzman farms can be your main amendment. Kelp is high in k but a little out of my price range.
jrelax
Member
Hello.
So many helpfull people here. I need time reading all.
I got dyslexia, i read slow.
I grow indoors, i cant have to much fish or chicken stuff. Its smells a lot.
After reding here , and there, i maybe know my problem now.
I am over watering and i give 2 much nutrients also.
My pots was totally wet in the bottom after 2days still.
This is wrong . I made more holes at bottom and some water did also drain out after 2 days feeding.
SO BAD
i am not good.
I must be more carefull now
2 DAYS ago i made more holes in my pots, more air
and i stop watering .
Now 4 of 9 plants look nice already.
rest will die i believe. Its sad.
I am not good growing yet. you people learn me much.
i think it can be better now.
Dont overwater.
Dont overfeed.
I have also buy smartports today. Fabric special textile .
These maybe help my problem also a bit.
I like feed my plants, i do it 2 much.
2 much love fails also.
smartpots can be good for me ? because i like water and feed for hand a lot.
sorry my bad english.
Also i need read more all answers i got already.
LOVE 2 all
So many helpfull people here. I need time reading all.
I got dyslexia, i read slow.
I grow indoors, i cant have to much fish or chicken stuff. Its smells a lot.
After reding here , and there, i maybe know my problem now.
I am over watering and i give 2 much nutrients also.
My pots was totally wet in the bottom after 2days still.
This is wrong . I made more holes at bottom and some water did also drain out after 2 days feeding.
SO BAD
i am not good.
I must be more carefull now
2 DAYS ago i made more holes in my pots, more air
and i stop watering .
Now 4 of 9 plants look nice already.
rest will die i believe. Its sad.
I am not good growing yet. you people learn me much.
i think it can be better now.
Dont overwater.
Dont overfeed.
I have also buy smartports today. Fabric special textile .
These maybe help my problem also a bit.
I like feed my plants, i do it 2 much.
2 much love fails also.
smartpots can be good for me ? because i like water and feed for hand a lot.
sorry my bad english.
Also i need read more all answers i got already.
LOVE 2 all
Switcher56
Comfortably numb!
Water, dry, dry, feed, dry, dry, water
jrelax
Member
yes that sound right switcher56
i did water. water. water. dry. water . water, also nutrients almost altime watering.
So stupid.
Totally retard.
I try my best now
water, dry, dry ,feed, dry dry, water, thanx.
so much dry . i love water and feed .
Make sweet love, not brutal love , i think
LOL
Anyway this is not fun for me. I need my medicine.
Soon i got nothing.
Before i grow in tent. That was so nice.
I got huge yeilds.
Now i move to open big room.
And the problems begins right away.
I need water much less in open room i think ?
in the tent there was some tropic heat and humidy.
Open room i have now, i cant controll this.
the room is about 3x3 meter. i grov my medicine in 1x1 only.
there is much room left.
i cant make that tropical nice stuff in open room anymore.
LESS WATER IN OPEN ROOM ? tent was nice, they loved watering there before
My tap water is bad. it has ph over 7.
i always let water bubble in big pot with airpump atleast 20h before watering.
The water ph i know only from tap, not in my water after 20h-30h rest
Can i use LEMON? EKO eco lemon ? lime is harder eco here
i can try have it more citric a little bit every second watering maybe ? squeeze about half lemon maybe in the mix like every 10.th day?
Eco/eko lemons is easy , eco limes we dont have here .
I only like grow eko/eco/organic.
I am a sick person, and i need this to medicate me self.
I dont like hydro or chemicals. Only natural as far i can go indoors.
i have throw away my synthetic cal/mag and PK today.
I want 100% organic. Because im sick.
I cant handle chemicals alot. sorry
sorry my bad english.
love 2 all
i did water. water. water. dry. water . water, also nutrients almost altime watering.
So stupid.
Totally retard.
I try my best now
water, dry, dry ,feed, dry dry, water, thanx.
so much dry . i love water and feed .
Make sweet love, not brutal love , i think
LOL
Anyway this is not fun for me. I need my medicine.
Soon i got nothing.
Before i grow in tent. That was so nice.
I got huge yeilds.
Now i move to open big room.
And the problems begins right away.
I need water much less in open room i think ?
in the tent there was some tropic heat and humidy.
Open room i have now, i cant controll this.
the room is about 3x3 meter. i grov my medicine in 1x1 only.
there is much room left.
i cant make that tropical nice stuff in open room anymore.
LESS WATER IN OPEN ROOM ? tent was nice, they loved watering there before
My tap water is bad. it has ph over 7.
i always let water bubble in big pot with airpump atleast 20h before watering.
The water ph i know only from tap, not in my water after 20h-30h rest
Can i use LEMON? EKO eco lemon ? lime is harder eco here
i can try have it more citric a little bit every second watering maybe ? squeeze about half lemon maybe in the mix like every 10.th day?
Eco/eko lemons is easy , eco limes we dont have here .
I only like grow eko/eco/organic.
I am a sick person, and i need this to medicate me self.
I dont like hydro or chemicals. Only natural as far i can go indoors.
i have throw away my synthetic cal/mag and PK today.
I want 100% organic. Because im sick.
I cant handle chemicals alot. sorry
sorry my bad english.
love 2 all
Last edited:
Lost in a SOG
GrassSnakeGenetics
What is the pH after bubbling because aeration in my water always raised the pH as the carbonic acid was broken down releasing co2 from the water.
Organics is admirable, in a purist sense, but if your environment is stressful in terms of vapour pressure deficit, VPD, youll probably be safer doing coco or something because slowly transpiring plant will lead to root rot and pH problems..
Organics is admirable, in a purist sense, but if your environment is stressful in terms of vapour pressure deficit, VPD, youll probably be safer doing coco or something because slowly transpiring plant will lead to root rot and pH problems..
My water is a high ph and I have never changed it for dirt pots. Less is always better when growing, for me. Watering, food, pruning, less is more. Except holes in the bottom, can't have too many of those!
Can you add a fan? It should help the plants get the water from the dirt, like if the room was hotter.
Can you add a fan? It should help the plants get the water from the dirt, like if the room was hotter.
T
Teddybrae
NOT stupid! Not retard! Just different!!!
yes that sound right switcher56
i did water. water. water. dry. water . water, also nutrients almost altime watering.
So stupid.
Totally retard.
I try my best now
water, dry, dry ,feed, dry dry, water, thanx.
so much dry . i love water and feed .
Make sweet love, not brutal love , i think
LOL
Anyway this is not fun for me. I need my medicine.
Soon i got nothing.
Before i grow in tent. That was so nice.
I got huge yeilds.
Now i move to open big room.
And the problems begins right away.
I need water much less in open room i think ?
in the tent there was some tropic heat and humidy.
Open room i have now, i cant controll this.
the room is about 3x3 meter. i grov my medicine in 1x1 only.
there is much room left.
i cant make that tropical nice stuff in open room anymore.
LESS WATER IN OPEN ROOM ? tent was nice, they loved watering there before
My tap water is bad. it has ph over 7.
i always let water bubble in big pot with airpump atleast 20h before watering.
The water ph i know only from tap, not in my water after 20h-30h rest
Can i use LEMON? EKO eco lemon ? lime is harder eco here
i can try have it more citric a little bit every second watering maybe ? squeeze about half lemon maybe in the mix like every 10.th day?
Eco/eko lemons is easy , eco limes we dont have here .
I only like grow eko/eco/organic.
I am a sick person, and i need this to medicate me self.
I dont like hydro or chemicals. Only natural as far i can go indoors.
i have throw away my synthetic cal/mag and PK today.
I want 100% organic. Because im sick.
I cant handle chemicals alot. sorry
sorry my bad english.
love 2 all
