MZ12X IN USE!

[treesniper]

I understand that, but it also says "EXCLUDING ALL FORMS OF ALCOHOL AND ETHANOL" and Dimethyl Ether has the same mass (52% carbon, 13% hydrogen, and 35% oxygen) as ethanol and is an isomer of Ethanol, does this make Dimethyl Ether a form of Ethanol? If so, then the "Inherently Hazardous Substance" line seems null and void when dealing with this particular solvent.

 

[GratefulOne]

It maybe excluded as a form of ETOH.

We are just pointing out you are getting two different uses of the words "inherently hazardous" when you state the FDA says it is safe. What the FDA says about it has nothing to do with the fire danger. The statute is only concerning fire danger.

It is not the smartest statute though. From a fire point of view any solvent with a flash point the same or higher as alcohol has the same danger. There is no reason to allow alcohol and not other solvents no more dangerous.

I think the statute is taking a lazy approach to the problem that is not correct.

 

[treesniper]

H1305 is a joke and There are already explicit constitutional protections for the plant and all its products and derivates and our explicit right to process cannabis (in Article XVIII, Section 16 of the Constitution) here in Colorado. What people need is an educational program, or else they might as well write the next piece of legislation classifying deep fryed turkey explosions/fires as its own special federal law. (regardless of current arson laws in place)

 

[treesniper]

It maybe excluded as a form of ETOH.

We are just pointing out you are getting two different uses of the words "inherently hazardous" when you state the FDA says it is safe. What the FDA says about it has nothing to do with the fire danger. The statute is only concerning fire danger.

It is not the smartest statute though. From a fire point of view any solvent with a flash point the same or higher as alcohol has the same danger. There is no reason to allow alcohol and not other solvents no more dangerous.

I think the statute is taking a lazy approach to the problem that is not correct.

I agree with this 100% I was merely pointing out the virtues of this solvent and its purposes that we use it for in comparison to things like butane, which is what has primarily drummed up the angst for the creation of the new HB. Thats why i asked for anyone to provide a link to an explosion in colorado regarding Dimethyl ether lol The entire focus here is on butane open blasting in residential areas, and the baby is getting thrown out with the bath water here, so to speak...

 

[GratefulOne]

Also note from a safely point of view dimethyl ether has a flash point of -40c. ETOH has a flash point of 55c. While DME maybe an isomer of ETOH it is MUCH more likely to create a fire.

 

[treesniper]

(when open blasting) If time is any factor as a safety note, i would disagree, as ethanol will sit out for quite some time evaporating off and it burns very well, compared to dimethyl ether which is gone in a matter of seconds upon exposure to normal temperatures and pressures and will flash off quickly if ignited (worse case scenario you walk away with burnt hair, unlike ethanol which would melt your flesh and continually burn everything it touches)

 

[GratefulOne]

(when open blasting) If time is any factor as a safety note, i would disagree, as ethanol will sit out for quite some time evaporating off and it burns very well, compared to dimethyl ether which is gone in a matter of seconds upon exposure to normal temperatures and pressures and will flash off quickly if ignited (worse case scenario you walk away with burnt hair, unlike ethanol which would melt your flesh and continually burn everything it touches)

The purpose of calculating flash point is to put a number on how a substance creates the situation where a fire or explosion will occur. As a general statement you can say the lower the flash point the higher the fire risk.

With low flash points the solvent boils very rapidly during the first milliseconds of a fire. This creates a very fast expanding ball of vapor. As the vapor ignites the heat goes insane. This fuels the chain reaction and you have an explosion.

Extremely low flash points don't burn off really fast- they explode. Butane's flash point is -60c. DME with a -40c flash point will behave more like butane than ETOH in regards to fire. Worst case with a -40c flash point is you explode.

 

[treesniper]

It is illegal unless specifically granted permission by the MED board. As with many laws, just because it does not make sense, does not mean that it isn't true. See section A-2.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60936&pictureid=1433593View Image

According to Ideal Extraction Solutions website: Dimethyl Ether is already

• Approved by Colorado Medical Enforcement Agency as a solvent that can be used in the extraction process in licensed MIP facilities.

 

[treesniper]

The purpose of calculating flash point is to put a number on how a substance creates the situation where a fire or explosion will occur. As a general statement you can say the lower the flash point the higher the fire risk.

With low flash points the solvent boils very rapidly during the first milliseconds of a fire. This creates a very fast expanding ball of vapor. As the vapor ignites the heat goes insane. This fuels the chain reaction and you have an explosion.

Extremely low flash points don't burn off really fast- they explode. Butane's flash point is -60c. DME with a -40c flash point will behave more like butane than ETOH in regards to fire. Worst case with a -40c flash point is you explode.

According to Ideal Extraction Solutions in Denver:
While MZ12X is flammable it is NOT explosive like butane.

 

[SquattingBull]

(when open blasting) If time is any factor as a safety note, i would disagree, as ethanol will sit out for quite some time evaporating off and it burns very well, compared to dimethyl ether which is gone in a matter of seconds upon exposure to normal temperatures and pressures and will flash off quickly if ignited (worse case scenario you walk away with burnt hair, unlike ethanol which would melt your flesh and continually burn everything it touches)

.... Um no this most certainly does not make it safer than ethanol. Pretty much everything that GratefulOne said reiterated is my stance on the matter. DME most certainly has the potential to explode and hurt you very badly. Which brings us back around to the point about how if DME cannot be used CLS no professional lab will ever be able to use it with any legitimacy.

 

[treesniper]

Also, according to recent city council safety meetings including the fire department and other agencies here in Colorado, Alcohol and ethanol and food extractions are acceptable at home (alcohol and ethanol need a permit from the fire department) and i continually mention Dimethyl Ether as an FDA "FOOD GRADE" extraction solvent for this reason as well.

 

[treesniper]

.... Um no this most certainly does not make it safer than ethanol. Pretty much everything that GratefulOne said reiterated is my stance on the matter. DME most certainly has the potential to explode and hurt you very badly. Which brings us back around to the point about how if DME cannot be used CLS no professional lab will ever be able to use it with any legitimacy.

And i already reiterated my point that it is already approved for professional labs here in the state of CO.
http://www.idealextractionsolutions.com/about-mz12x/

 

[GratefulOne]

For reference another liquid with similar flash point: Gasoline -45c to -43c flash point (DME -40c)

I am not saying it is good or bad to use - just stating the engineering facts and not marketing from people wanting to sell it.

 

[SquattingBull]

And i already reiterated my point that it is already approved for professional labs here in the state of CO.
http://www.idealextractionsolutions.com/about-mz12x/

Look bro I don't know how to break this down any other way. It is illegal, it is not approved. They are either being intentionally negligent or are ignorant of the law. Either one is unacceptable. They may say it is legal on there website but good luck to you if you think that would hold up in court when the law, which I already posted, clearly says you must gain individual approval for any solvent not listed. Secondly, scroll to the bottom of there page and look at there warnings. The ones about ventilation and safety precautions. Those would be because it is explosive. Im not even sure what you were getting at with your at home extraction statement because ethanol is an alcohol and it made no sense. Furthermore how are you seriously going to source a group who's only purpose is to sell this product and claim it as a viable point of information? Thats what we call bias and would never pass in the science world. I watched there product video from last years Can Cup and it's a joke.

I have no problems with DME as a solvent if implemented and vetted correctly but you methodology for assessing safety here is totally skewed. Point to GO for throwing down the gasoline statement. Wonderful comparison and my sentiments exactly.

 

[treesniper]

So lets get the facts straight since this is starting to get some momentum now and information is all over the place...
Dimethyl Ether is Approved by Colorado Medical Enforcement Agency as a solvent that can be used in the extraction process in licensed MIP facilities.
(and according to the same website)
While MZ12X is flammable it is NOT explosive like butane.
http://www.idealextractionsolutions.com/about-mz12x/
http://www.idealextractionsolutions.com/read-before-using-mz12x/

 

[treesniper]

Look bro I don't know how to break this down any other way. It is illegal, it is not approved. They are either being intentionally negligent or are ignorant of the law. Either one is unacceptable. They may say it is legal on there website but good luck to you if you think that would hold up in court when the law, which I already posted, clearly says you must gain individual approval for any solvent not listed. Secondly, scroll to the bottom of there page and look at there warnings. The ones about ventilation and safety precautions. Those would be because it is explosive. Im not even sure what you were getting at with your at home extraction statement because ethanol is an alcohol and it made no sense. Furthermore how are you seriously going to source a group who's only purpose is to sell this product and claim it as a viable point of information? Thats what we call bias and would never pass in the science world. I watched there product video from last years Can Cup and it's a joke.

I have no problems with DME as a solvent if implemented and vetted correctly but you methodology for assessing safety here is totally skewed. Point to GO for throwing down the gasoline statement. Wonderful comparison and my sentiments exactly.

So your claiming they are being ignorant of the law by specifically mentioning that its approved in the state of colorado for MIP licensed facilities? Its sunday now, but emails have already been sent out and i will post their replies, you must understand how confusing this is lol. Its easy to assume they are just advertising, but they are located in denver, the sell butane and dimethyl ether to other labs and have been good about getting back to me in the past with information. I will allow them the benefit of the doubt to explain themselves and see if its up to snuff, meanwhile, do you have a link showing that "dimethyl ether" is not allowed?

 

[GratefulOne]

I guess saying "While MZ12X is flammable it is NOT explosive like butane." might be true in an absolute sense.

Saying it is explosive like gasoline is likely correct as well. For most people the explosive part is enough. That is some misleading marketing.

No flammable liquid is safe. Most people should not be using ETOH as it also requires proper equipment. The solvents with really low flash points though vaporize at such a high rate they create explosive fuel air mixtures very easy.

It is true butane which is vapor at room temp and has a -60c FP is more explosive but not by much. This is why marketing should be avoided as sources of safety info.

 

[SquattingBull]

I don't know how long you've been in the business friend but there are alot of people doing alot of things that are in what we fondly like to call the "grey area". So just because someone is doing something and hasn't gotten into trouble yet does not mean that it is legal. If you look back a page or so you will see a screen shot of what solvents are approved in the state of CO for extractions from my first post on this thread. That is from the most current law which can be downloaded by anyone from the state website if you'd like to read it. It takes a while.

And again... them stating it "is not explosive like butane" is not a scientific or quantifiable statement. That is like saying hitting a wall in your car going thirty isn't like hitting it going forty. True but totally meaningly in respect to whether one or the other is dangerous. Even if it isn't explosive "like butane", it IS explosive and subsequently dangerous.

 

[treesniper]

Im not even sure what you were getting at with your at home extraction statement because ethanol is an alcohol and it made no sense.

I have lived in Colorado for 5+ years now and been a patient from the day i moved here...
It would make sense if you lived in colorado and were paying attention to ordinances and rules restricting certain types of hash production at home...
Trying to live a healthy lifestyle with all these regulations, amendments, and changes is difficult. I switched to DME as soon as i heard about the rash of BHOtards blowing themselves up back in 2013 and on ward. I will continue to abide by the law, but constitutionally, WE ARE ALLOWED TO PROCESS OUR CANNABIS INTO HASH!!! It has only recently raised a stink, and that was thanks to idiots at home using butane. All of these new laws, bills, ordinances, are based around "butane explosions" not all of the cases were even "open blasting" as one more recent case was from a leaky closed loop system....IMO properly open blasting your meds in small batches, with a solvent (like DME) that rapidly removes itself (with a non flame) double boiler set up, in a matter of seconds!!! is not a huge risk of explosion or a major fire hazard when following proper techniques. Anything that i have mentioned on this post was always referring to "at home extractions" unless stated otherwise.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...xpected-to-pass-homemade-hash-oil-ban-tonight

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...question-marijuana-hash-oil-legality-colorado

http://www.thecannabist.co/2014/10/...approves-revised-hash-oil-restrictions/21493/

 

[treesniper]

in every post i linked and information provided here they specify both "alcohol and ethanol" and also, in the new HB they specify "EXCLUDING ALL FORMS OF ALCOHOL AND ETHANOL"
I was practically quoting word for word what every link, article, and bill has specified, it makes perfect sense when you look at it like that lol