My Soil Mix

[James_Lipton]

Hello,

I have noticed that many people put fertilizers into their soil mix right off. I do not do that. My soil mix is:

3 parts soil
2 parts perlite
1 part vermiculite

and 1 tblsp dolomite lime/gallon

Is there something wrong with this? I figured it was ok to do since I can add fertilizer through watering (I use Earth Juice). I was thinking of eliminating the dolomite altogether and using Cal-Mag, but after reading around it seems that despite being very alkaline the lime helps regulate pH.

If I swapped the soil for peat, would I be much better off? I have 1 run under my belt, and most of my problems were because I failed to pH adjust the Earth Juice until way later on. Live and learn, thanks a lot guys.

PS - I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I got the mix from High Times when they did a profile on some grower. Lol

Edit: Post up your own soil mixes if you wish and tell us what brought you success/failure.

 

[Suby]

Hey JL,

you won't get flamed for quoting HT in this forum, it served growers well before the rise of internet.
I have qualms with the new HT, the ads selling fake weed, fake equipment and reviews that cover commercial ineterest!

If your feeding with EJ you will want the dolomite, it fact it will really help things along ph wise, the proportion is spot on.
What are you reffering to when you say soil? It's vague because the word has come to mean alot of diff. things to diff. growers.
I use Promix as a base, it's peat based and has very good water retention and drainage plus it's very porous and light.
I think vermiculite is useless with MJ, weed like a short wet dry cycle within reason and vermiculite hold alot of water, I prefer perlite.
In fact if you sub the vermiculite for worm casting you have a perfect mix IMHO, EJ will cover the rest.

Peace
S

 

[James_Lipton]

When I say "soil" I mean potting soil I got from a local garden center. I get the good quality stuff, not the garbage with tons of sticks and rocks in it. I had good drainage with this soil but I agree about eliminating the vermiculite. The pots held water so well that I barely had to water them, and thus couldn't give them as much fertilizer as needed, although the real problem was that the plants weren't growing due to PH issues (didn't add lime till about 2 weeks into flowering, and dolomite isn't fast-acting).

I agree about HT. I like reading it but I don't expect anything of substance. Some of their grow articles are ok, but I don't take advice from there (and a few times I have seen stuff that was flat-out wrong).

How expensive is Promix? A lot of people use it, but I'm not sure if replacing the soil with Promix would make a huge difference. This time I think I'll replace the vermiculite with earthworm castings. And I actually used 2 tblspn of dolomite per gallon last time, but this time I think I'll tone it down to 1 tblspn since I will be pH adjusting all the water they get till the runoff is around 6.7.

You learn a lot your first time! Peace

 

[Suby]

Ph and lime also depend on your starting water ph, they few times I have come across peeps with ph issues in organic soil with lime they had a starting water ph of 8+, this will play on the soil ph heavily as it is always added and adjusted or not it will want to raise back to 8.
What's your starting ph and ppm's of your water?

If your using dlime then you MUST compost or you'll get little out of it, it needs time to start breaking down and used the powdered not the pellets, you need the extra surface contact for quikl dissolution in the medium

If your adjusting then use half, that's fine but remeber EJ is acidic so if you combine that with the castings 2 can also work well

Vermiculite has it's place with small plants because it increases the porosity but retains water so roots grow fast but water stays put long enough so your not stuck watering every second day.
In a 5gal of soil though it will mess up you nute schedule as you mentioned.

Promix is relatively cheap, even if it was expensive you have to realize it is the pinacle of a good grow, as important as water and choice of nutes, PM has a little lime and a surfactant and Michorizae added, it is not 100% organic but close enough IMHO.

Suby

 

[James_Lipton]

The tap water where I'm at has a high pH of 8.7-8.8; I don't know my PPMs because I don't have a meter; however, my area has good quality tap water so I assume its low. I was thinking of switching to distilled water because I don't have the space to bubble large amounts of water to get rid of the chlorine and because I'd have less chance of a salt buildup with the 0 ppm that distilled water offers. I'm a bit confused; are you saying that even with pH adjustment, the soil will still want to go towards ph of 8?

One interesting thing I noticed was that 1 plant got powdered calcitic lime and the others got pelletized dolomite lime (albeit a week later than the plant that got the calcitic lime). The plant that got the calcitic lime was the only plant I had that wasn't a 2 gram runt and grew into a 6 in cola (I really messed up my 1st time). The dolomite lime I have is pelletized, I think the only place I can get powdered is at home depot in the 25 lb packages.

I'm not sure what you mean by composting; however, I will need to mix the soil quickly for the seeds to go right in; I only have about 100 or so days from seed to harvest and I am studying abroad until then, so I don't have much time to prepare. If I mixed the dolomite in the 16 oz beer cups I'll start them in, couldn't I just pH adjust the water until my runoff is about 6.7-6.8 (I believe that's the optimal range) and wait for the lime to take effect? I have Cal-Mag in case of any deficiencies, but they'll only be seedlings anyway for a week or two. Then when I transplant to a larger pot they'll have the cal/mag they need while the new soil's dolomite kicks in.

I'll pick up the Pro-Mix for sure. Are there different kinds? I've seen it at Home Depot; is there a specific kind I need?

Also, about the EWCs. Are those acidic too? My new soil mix would be this:

3 parts Pro-Mix
2 parts Perlite
1 part EWC

and 2 tblspns powdered dolomite/gallon. Will test runoff and water with whate ver pH will give me a 6.7-6.8 runoff. I will also pH adjust the fertilizer mix I give them (using 3LB's general guidelines, 1 tblspn grow, 1 tspn bloom, 1 tblspn catalyst during veg). Can I pick up the castings at any garden center?

 

[Suby]

Alright now we have info we can use.
Dlime will raise your ph to around 8 slowly over the few days after watering or feeding.
If your feeding with water with a ph of near 9 then using dolomite lime IMHO is uselsss.
The combination of your water ph and the lime will keep your soil ph from being optimal.
The lime is used to counteract the acidity of your nutrients and soil elements but with a water ph of 9 that won't be necesary.
Dlime supplies calcium and magnesium so if you skip it you'll have to supply some with your EJ.
Are you absolutely sure you water ph is that high? Regular filtered tap water should be much closer to 7 which is a neutral ph, 8 sounds very high but it's possible.

Basically if it is that high you just skip the dlime or use like 1tsp instead of 2 TBS and let the acidity in the EJ make up for it, if your not sure then try it with just one plant.

If you switch to distilled they you can definately use the dolomite at ~1TBS.

I use Promix HP (high porosity), very airy and light.

EWC are very high in humic acid so they're ph is irrelevant, they actually buffer ph and make nutrients avaiulable over a wider ph range, they should be widely available in garden stores.

Seddlings will get by on very little so don't feed them unless they get a very pale shade of green, otherwise the soil has all they need until transplant.

3LB recipe is excellent and they are now called the Flintstoners so you can PM them for ?'s about the recipe, I've never used EJ enough to get the feel for it.

Suby

 

[James_Lipton]

As far as tap water pH goes, I was surprised too. I have one of those $25 Hanna pH checkers and it said 8.7-8.8 for pH. I didn't believe this and I recalibrated the meter (in fact I recalibrated it all the time, usually after each use just to make sure it was working right) but it kept saying my pH was that high.

If I end up using tap water I will eliminate the lime, I have two bottles of Cal-Mag I can use (EJ is lacking in either calcium or magnesium, I have the entire line of fertilizers but I would still need the Cal-Mag). I'm still going to pH adjust the fertilizer mixes I give them though because the EJ is so acidic that it will bring the tap water down to a pH of 4 or so. When I simply mixed the EJ and water I got really bad nute lockout. This time however, I am going to pH adjust the water to 6.8 (is that right?) and see what the runoff is, and pH adjust until my runoff is 6.7-6.8, which I believe is the "best" pH for soil-soiless.

Another question: say I took a 5 gal bucket and filled it with water and put a small airstone in it from a small air pump and let it bubble for a day. Would that water be chlorine-free (or at least good enough to use with my organic fertilizers?) I don't want to use de-chlorinator on my water because I'm trying to keep this as close to 100% organic as possible (plus, who wants Stress Coat in their buds? blech).

Whether I use tap water or not will be decided by how expensive distilled water is. If the cost of distilled water for a grow is close to the cost of a PPM meter, then I'll get the distilled; but I don't think my water has a high PPM. I started some bagseeds in one of my failed cabs and they grew very vigorously with just tap water.

By the way, thanks for the help so far.

 

[Suby]

No problem JL

Yes 6.8 sounds spot on, yes you can bubble water for 24hrs with an airstone and it will eradicate any chlorine (not Chloramine but chlorine), I keep a 5gallon bucket with air running trough water all the time just in case.
NEVER use dechlorinator, it's ok for fish but not plants.

I always bubbled my EJ ferts and it really made a difference, from like 4 to 6 overnight.
EJ is funny that way, let it bubble with an airstone for a day and then adjust ph if you need to but bubbling is an important step with EJ IMHO.

Be sure to measure the ph of the bottled water to make sure your pens not phucked lol, it should be close to 7.

Calmag is excellent and will replace the Ca and Mg in the lime very well, I've used it and it's excellent.
It is high in N though so use it preventatively earlier in flowering if you can.

Don't worry so much about runoff ph, just water until you get about 5% runoff and soil ph will keep in check with what you feed, if you use a catalyst type product or Liquid Karma or any other source of humic and fulvic acid then these will buffer ph so nutes are available over a wider ph span.

Keep me posted

Suby

 

[James_Lipton]

The pH pen I had was new. I tested water along with a liquid pH tester and it gave me the same basic reading so I don't think it's ruined. I did have to recalibrate constantly though which was frustrating. I think what I will do is buy a gallon of distilled water since the pH of that will be constant and just pour a bit of it each time I'm going to use the pen.

I too bubbled my EJ fert mixes. It never brought the pH up to 6 as I recall. Also, the mixture would go from brownish to clear after a day or two of bubbling; a lot of gunk would stick to the sides and to the airstone. Sometimes I would get foam, sometimes not. Did you have that happen with your bubbling? I bubbled it in gallon milk containers with the tops cut off for lots of air circulation. Does that mean the fertilizers are less effective?

About the cal-mag. If I gave them a lot of that in veg/early flowering, can there be too much; that is, can it result in cal/mg lockout? EJ Microblast already has magnesium (I believe) but no calcium.

Despite all of my troubles with Earth Juice, I would recommend the line because you get a lot of control over what your plants receive. It takes a while to use but at the end my plants were looking awesome (albeit small).

I've had the bottles for about a year or so now. They are stored in a cabinet away from direct sunlight. They're still good, right? I don't live in an especially hot climate so I assume they're still good.

 

[Suby]

Actually long term shelf life is why i don't use EJ, that and the price pisses me off.
Yours should be fine though, you'll know by the smell of couse the bloom stinks like puke even when it's new.

With a better water source you might get a different pg readin after bubbling, if you water is high is particles with a high ppm then it will be hard to flux the ph.

Go easy with the calamg, too much Ca or Mg can lockout Potassium and you'll need K for fat juicy buds.

They should not need it in veg, you should try using worm castings in your base mix they will help things alon nute wise in veg softly and all while buffering the soil ph.

EJ is a good quality product though so don't be discourgaed, you just need to dial it all in, maybe skip the Microblast when applying calmag.
Bubbling it will not lessen the ferts ability to feed, just scrape all that scum and stuff and get it into the water then feed.


Suby

 

[James_Lipton]

Wow suby you've given me a lot of help here.

Eventually I will bite the bullet and buy one of those really good combo testers but that won't be until after my next harvest. Instead, I'm going to use distilled water for this run.

My soil mix will be:

3 parts Pro-Mix (preferably HP, but I'll use BX too, depending on what I can find)
2 parts perlite
1 part earthworm castings (they're all the same, right?)
1 tblspn Dolomite lime per gallon of soil

I will pH adjust all the distilled water I give them to 6.8 and all the fertilizer mixes to 6.8. I really like the idea of EWCs in the soil to regulate pH; I think that will help a lot.

Now the question is; SOG or SCROG? I have a 30" x 20" space (with 6 feet in height not including equipment) with a 400 watt cool tubed HPS. I only have about 100 days from seed. With SOG I'm thinking I could fit about 12 inside 1 gallon growbags or 1 gal nursery containers (really .6 gallons). However, I cant let them get above 3 feet in height so I'd flip when they're around 16 inches high. SCROG I could fit 6 2 gal nursery containers or 5 3 gallon ones. Right now I'm leaning towards SOG.

I blew a lot of cash on fem'd sensi star beans last time and didn't have the best results, so this time I'm going to get 15 seeds from femaleseeds.nl, either NL, GF x NL, or ICE (or NL x ICE, but I don't think they'll do that line again). The price is right and I only hear good things about NL, plus the yield will probably be better.

I think they'll need at least 9 weeks of flowering because you always need more time than what the breeder says and they are labeled as "finishing" in 8 weeks; I'd feel comfortable with 65 days for any of those 4 (although straight NL might be done a bit sooner). I don't know if 4-5 weeks of veg from seed will be enough to get them to where they need to be for flowering in a SCROG (having an extra 5 days or so to dry before I leave would really help. I think I'd be alright with 4 weeks of veg in a SOG, but I really don't know which method to pick for best yield.

Any thoughts? I'm sorry for the essay Suby, you helped me out a lot and I appreciate it.

 

[Suby]

That mix and setup sounds great.

If time is against you then SOG is the way to go, plus it's easier to rotate and stay flexible.
SOG will shorten the flowering time too seing as each plant is smaller and less training.
Don't let them veg very long with a SOG, they'll get big quick under a 400W.
I would flip them after the second or third node develops, they'll likely stretch double their height from the time you flip.

I'm glad to help man, anything I can do just ask.