My plants are dying and no one knows why. I need help!

[bili_isiro]

Hi guys,

I'm new here and desperately looking for help. I've done a lot of research and talked to several people, but I haven't found a solution yet.
I'm having the same problem with my mother plants and the clones I took from them.

My mother plants are almost 4 months old in veg stage. Strain: Glue #31 compound genetics.
30 days ago, they started to show burns on the tips of the upper leaves. These burns spread throughout the leaf until they kill the entire leaf.
The new leaves grow smaller and smaller until the problem takes over the entire plant and it dies (I've already lost 5 plants in the same way).

I uploaded some photos so you can better assess the situation.
Does anyone have any idea what's attacking my plants?

Watering and Grow Room Information
Sealed room
Coconut fiber soil
2 gallon pots
Strain: Glue #31 Compound Genetics
Input EC 1.4 / Output EC 1.8-2.2
Input pH 6.0 / Output pH 5.9-6.5
Runoff 30-40%
Watering once a day (0.5L to 1L depending on the plant)
PPFD 350-450
CO2 500-800ppm
Room temperature 25-27°C / 77-80°F
Room humidity 60-70%
Watering solution: plantprod calmag 13-0-13 (1g/L), ppmj grow (1g/L), silicate (0.4g/L), seacrop (1mL/L) and H2O2-hydrogen peroxide (1mL/L)

Tkx a lot!

 

[Creeperpark]

Sorry you are having this problem friend. Take a strong magnifier look on both sides of the leaves to rule out insect infestation. However it looks like you have some kind of fungal plant disease. I would abort this grow and clean everything up and start again. Those plants have lost their homeostasis and will never recover and keeping them is fruitless.

When you say, I'm having the same problem with my mother plants and the clones I took from them, tells me you have some infected plants. A fungus and lie dormant for years and be inactive and when the fungus growing conditions are just right the fungus will bloom and spread like wildfire. Keep us posted.

 

[Lester Beans]

It seems the problem lies with the only water/feed once a day and that resulting 30-40% runoff. I would try giving the nutrient solution 4-5 times a day just until runoff begins.

I think you are letting the coco dry out and then flushing it with the single heavy feed.

Frequent small water/nutrient feeds work better for coco, keeping the substrate evenly moist.

Or

It could be as Creeperpark said.

 

[warp420]

Watering once a day (0.5L to 1L depending on the plant)

You should definitely adjust the watering, the soil will simply be swampy and the roots will not get any oxygen.

I would let the pots dry for at least 1 week and then I would completely submerge the pots in water once. So that all dry spots are watered. You can't really water too much, but you can easily water too often!

 

[Lester Beans]

You can't let coco dry for a week.

You should definitely adjust the watering, the soil will simply be swampy and the roots will not get any oxygen.

I would let the pots dry for at least 1 week and then I would completely submerge the pots in water once. So that all dry spots are watered. You can't really water too much, but you can easily water too often!

You can't let coco dry for a week.

 

[warp420]

You can't let coco dry for a week.

You can't let coco dry for a week.

I actually overlooked the fact that it is grown on cocos! Then my comment can be ignored!

 

[revegeta]

That definitely looks like a systemic fungal infection to me.

 

[Lester Beans]

I checked out the video you posted on THC f armer. Then I took a look at the labels of the nutrients you are giving. There is a lot of available N, a lot of chloride (12%??) which mixed with H2O2 is no bueno, a lot of salt and what looks to be a ton of Mg, almost double the calcium. I think these plants are burned from nutrients and dry back. I think the high EC output is pointing to the high amounts of sodium in the Seacrop (not to mention in the coco possibly). Seacrop also says to NOT mix with other fertilizers. Here are a couple labels and while I don't have time to screw with the math, there is a lot going on here for mother plants in veg, fed all this daily. I think it is time to start over with a more basic nutrient solution.

If you must save these plants I would transplant them to some good mild soil after rinsing off the coco and roots as well as you can. I would give the a 25% veg feed dose of a basic plant nutrient such as GH or Botanicare, carefully ph'd to 6.5. then plain ph'd water until you start seeing normal growth.

If you don't have to save them I would scrap them and readjust your nutrient regime after researching what goes together and what doesn't.

Plant-Prod Cal/Mag

Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen (N)	14%
Nitrate Nitrogen	12.8%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen	1.2%
Urea Nitrogen	0%
Available Phosphate (P2O5)	0%
Soluble Phosphorus	0%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	14%
Soluble Potassium	11.6%
Calcium (Ca)	5.9%
Magnesium (Mg)	2.9%
Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe)	0.100%
Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn)	0.050%
Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn)	0.050%
Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu)	0.050%
Boron (actual) (B)	0.020%
Molybdenum (actual) (Mo)	0.015%
EDTA (chelating agent)	1.24%

designed for plug production and contains a complete micronutrient package including high molybdenum, magnesium nitrate, potassium nitrate and calcium nitrate.

Plant-Prod MJ Grow

Total Nitrogen (N)	12%
Nitrate Nitrogen	8.2%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen	3.8%
Urea Nitrogen	0%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5)	8%
Soluble Phosphorus	3.4%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	26%
Soluble Potassium	21.5%
Calcium (Ca)	0%
Magnesium (Mg)	2.5%
Sulphur (S)	5.1%
Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe)	0.250%
Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn)	0.050%
Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn)	0.050%
Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu)	0.050%
Boron (actual) (B)	0.020%
Molybdenum (actual) (Mo)	0.0005%

-
Seacrop (12% is sodium chloride!?!)

Chloride (Cl) ....................................................... 12%
Magnesium (Mg) ............................................... 4%
Boron (B) .............................................................. 0.5%
Potassium (K) ................................................ .002%
Sulfur (S) ........................................................... .005%

Also this about Seacrop

• For best results, never mix SEA-CROP® with synthetic fertilizers, insecticides or herbicides. SEA-CROP® should be applied, by itself, a few days before or after other agricultural treatments. Co-application with compost tea is permissible and synergistic effects are possible.

Seacrop has to mixed carefully as it quickly becomes toxic.

There are more labels and guaranteed analysis information out there.

Best of luck on your grow.

 

[Wolverine97]

I think he's just fried his shit, by over feeding, and as Lester points out... it's drying out too much between waterings, locking all that excess salt in the coco and in the plant tissue. So the osmotic pressure is backwards, and the plants just dessicate. I don't think it's even worth trying to salvage these plants. I would start over, drop your ec, and increase waterings to at least 2x/day.

Also, as you don't seem very experienced, I would step away from coco until you learn the ropes a bit.

 

[Dr.Dutch]

I checked out the video you posted on THC f armer. Then I took a look at the labels of the nutrients you are giving. There is a lot of available N, a lot of chloride (12%??) which mixed with H2O2 is no bueno, a lot of salt and what looks to be a ton of Mg, almost double the calcium. I think these plants are burned from nutrients and dry back. I think the high EC output is pointing to the high amounts of sodium in the Seacrop (not to mention in the coco possibly). Seacrop also says to NOT mix with other fertilizers. Here are a couple labels and while I don't have time to screw with the math, there is a lot going on here for mother plants in veg, fed all this daily. I think it is time to start over with a more basic nutrient solution.

If you must save these plants I would transplant them to some good mild soil after rinsing off the coco and roots as well as you can. I would give the a 25% veg feed dose of a basic plant nutrient such as GH or Botanicare, carefully ph'd to 6.5. then plain ph'd water until you start seeing normal growth.

If you don't have to save them I would scrap them and readjust your nutrient regime after researching what goes together and what doesn't.

Plant-Prod Cal/Mag

Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen (N)	14%
Nitrate Nitrogen	12.8%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen	1.2%
Urea Nitrogen	0%
Available Phosphate (P2O5)	0%
Soluble Phosphorus	0%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	14%
Soluble Potassium	11.6%
Calcium (Ca)	5.9%
Magnesium (Mg)	2.9%
Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe)	0.100%
Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn)	0.050%
Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn)	0.050%
Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu)	0.050%
Boron (actual) (B)	0.020%
Molybdenum (actual) (Mo)	0.015%
EDTA (chelating agent)	1.24%

designed for plug production and contains a complete micronutrient package including high molybdenum, magnesium nitrate, potassium nitrate and calcium nitrate.

Plant-Prod MJ Grow

Total Nitrogen (N)	12%
Nitrate Nitrogen	8.2%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen	3.8%
Urea Nitrogen	0%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5)	8%
Soluble Phosphorus	3.4%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	26%
Soluble Potassium	21.5%
Calcium (Ca)	0%
Magnesium (Mg)	2.5%
Sulphur (S)	5.1%
Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe)	0.250%
Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn)	0.050%
Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn)	0.050%
Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu)	0.050%
Boron (actual) (B)	0.020%
Molybdenum (actual) (Mo)	0.0005%

-
Seacrop (12% is sodium chloride!?!)

Chloride (Cl) ....................................................... 12%
Magnesium (Mg) ............................................... 4%
Boron (B) .............................................................. 0.5%
Potassium (K) ................................................ .002%
Sulfur (S) ........................................................... .005%

Also this about Seacrop

• For best results, never mix SEA-CROP® with synthetic fertilizers, insecticides or herbicides. SEA-CROP® should be applied, by itself, a few days before or after other agricultural treatments. Co-application with compost tea is permissible and synergistic effects are possible.

Seacrop has to mixed carefully as it quickly becomes toxic.

There are more labels and guaranteed analysis information out there.

Best of luck on your grow.

Thank you. I let GPT done the formation and than a quit calculation with excel

Watering solution: plantprod calmag 13-0-13 (1g/L), ppmj grow (1g/L), silicate (0.4g/L), seacrop (1mL/L) and H2O2-hydrogen peroxide (1mL/L)

Yeah, looks very bad. Cl toxicity would be the first thing i would suggest, and than not enough Ca and (1st time i see it^^) not enough P.
Also: Don't mix H2O2 with any organic substances. I wouldn't use it at all, except for disinfection purposes, since it is toxic for plants and can burn their roots.

Watering frequency is not the problem here. Watering my mothers on coco/perlit (70:30, 1gal, same as bloom, KISS style^^) only every few days, when the pot gets a little bit lighter (can go up to every second day, when they are a little bit bigger like these ones - tomorrow is clone cutting day for five of them).

 

[Ca++]

That seacrop sounds toxic.
If you are getting up mums, taking cuts, then watching the mums fail, and weeks later the cuts fail, its a strong indication of building toxicity in the substrate. Essentially it's not plant age, it's substrate age.
Get something that looks like it could be saved. Wash through with enough calmag to be seeing EC figures like 1.0 in order to get all that sodium out. Then bang in it compost, and just tap water it. The roots should come out into the compost, and the plant look like a recovery is taking place.
Before the repot, after the calmag, you could use a proper coco feed. Just so it has something.
The ppmj seems to be 200-100-200 or something like, at 1g/L which is too much P to even flower with. I can't really see a way to lower the P, then put the N back with calmag, as the K will be too low for coco. It just doesn't work.


You came to the right place. IC fixes the plants, that other forums just watch die.

 

[ledo]

Strain: Glue #31 Compound Genetics
Input EC 1.4 / Output EC 1.8-2.2
Input pH 6.0 / Output pH 5.9-6.5

^^^^^^on the daily right…?

Think how much salts must be built up in your medium if daily your watering in 1.4EC & 1.8-2.2EC, every day is coming out…

 

[Wolverine97]

^^^^^^on the daily right…?

Think how much salts must be built up in your medium if daily your watering in 1.4EC & 1.8-2.2EC, every day is coming out…

Exactly, especially letting it go dry in between.
And I would not recommend OP use Chat GPT for anything in life, much less to figure how to feed plants. I could go on about that one, but won't.

 

[Lester Beans]

He is getting bad advice on the farmer and just said this..


"My runoff ec was in the danger zone, so I need to take some actions about this.
Today I watered with the same solution (1.4EC/6.0pH), but with a large volume (3L for each plant), runoff varied between EC 1.6-1.8 and pH 6.0-6.5 depending on the plant. Its already out of danger zone but I need to have caution and take quickly actions like increase watering frequency as you said. Thanks!"

Hopefully he comes back to icmag for some proper sound advice.

 

[bili_isiro]

He is getting bad advice on the farmer and just said this..


"My runoff ec was in the danger zone, so I need to take some actions about this.
Today I watered with the same solution (1.4EC/6.0pH), but with a large volume (3L for each plant), runoff varied between EC 1.6-1.8 and pH 6.0-6.5 depending on the plant. Its already out of danger zone but I need to have caution and take quickly actions like increase watering frequency as you said. Thanks!"

Hopefully he comes back to icmag for some proper sound advice.

Here I am my friend!
I have no experience in cultivation nor in cultivation forums, So I decided to ask everyone for help.
Let me just read every message you sent me here.
I really appreciate you all support!

 

[bili_isiro]

Sorry you are having this problem friend. Take a strong magnifier look on both sides of the leaves to rule out insect infestation. However it looks like you have some kind of fungal plant disease. I would abort this grow and clean everything up and start again. Those plants have lost their homeostasis and will never recover and keeping them is fruitless.

When you say, I'm having the same problem with my mother plants and the clones I took from them, tells me you have some infected plants. A fungus and lie dormant for years and be inactive and when the fungus growing conditions are just right the fungus will bloom and spread like wildfire. Keep us posted.

Wow... thats hard to hear!
I was thinking that even it was fungal disease, like fusarium, I could treat and remediate the scenario.

Do you have any suggestions as to where this might have come from? And how can I make sure that I don't have the same problem next time I grow?

Thank you for this hard to give diagnosis.

 

[bili_isiro]

It seems the problem lies with the only water/feed once a day and that resulting 30-40% runoff. I would try giving the nutrient solution 4-5 times a day just until runoff begins.

I think you are letting the coco dry out and then flushing it with the single heavy feed.

Frequent small water/nutrient feeds work better for coco, keeping the substrate evenly moist.

Or

It could be as Creeperpark said.

Hey man,
What you said makes a lot of sense considering the way I'm watering.

I just completed a cycle with the same strain and the same watering "strategy" and have success on it.
I'll do what you suggested and see what happens.

Thanks!

 

[Cannabis Critically]

1. Never buy anything that claims to be magic marijuana sauce.

2. When you flush salts from media, a weak nutrient solution works better than water.

3. Abort mission. You could probably save the plants, but if you try they should be put in quarantine.

Peace…Jeff

 

[Wolverine97]

You would be far better off just using a high quality soil. It's easy mode, until you get a sense of what does what, what the plants like and what they don't. Get a few solid grows under your belt before you branch out into other mediums. That is of course, just my own opinion.

 

[bili_isiro]

Hello all,
@Creeperpark @Lester Beans @Wolverine97 @Dr.Dutch @Ca++ @ledo

First of all I'd like to thank you all for your time and your willing to give me some help and good advice about my tragic situation.

I have carefully read all your messages and it seems I have two possibilities:
1- nutrients/salt burning
2- fungal disease (in this case I have nothing to do but clean everything and start over again)

So I'll work on option 1 , go deep on study exactly which nutrients and in which quantities my plants need for the stage they are in now and see if the plant-prod products I have here will be able to supply these nutrients adequately (and stop with seacrop). I'll be more careful with the frequency of watering, so that the substrate does not dry out between waterings.

My idea is to start with a flushing with EC 1.0 solution (only using CalMag) and the next day enter with the new watering strategy and solution (already with nutrients at adequate levels). What do you think? Or you think its necessary to take them out of coco, wash the roots and then repot in a new coco?

Bringing you all more information about my case, the yellowing and burnt tips started about 40 days ago and this coincided with increasing the EC input from 2.0 to 2.2 in these mother plants (at that time my watering solution was just PP CalMag 13-0-13 and PPMJ Grow 12-8-26). Just after that the EC output started to rise and got out of control.
Soon after that (30 days ago) I put the EC input back to 2.0 but the output was still accumulating... so 20 days ago I reduced the EC input to 1.8 and added seacrop and silicate to the watering solution, the output was still accumulating... 15 days ago I reduced again EC input to 1.6, still accumulating... Then 10 days ago I adjusted the EC input to 1.4 and although the output is still higher than the input, at least it seems to have stabilized.

So seacrop and silicate were added to my watering solution after the plants started shown the first symptoms.

Another more two info can help on evaluation is: that's my 2nd cycle, I have completed successfully the first cycle with this strain and the same watering strategy (now they are drying hanging upside down); some days ago I took a picture of the roots and stalk cross section of one of died mother (see attached).

Thank you all again for bringing up important issues for my learning!
God bless us