Mulch. Just do it.

[mad librettist]

But it isn't a compost pile h.h. Yes, adding green mulch will EVENTUALLY break down and add nitrogen to your mix. But while it is in the process of being decomposed, bacteria will be using N reserves in the soil, which would have otherwise been available to your lovely cannabis plant.

The point that I am trying to make is that there are much better ways to supplement N your grow, whether it be amending with alfalfa/blood meal, watering with fish emulsion, or using FPEs.

Mulch with decomposed organic matter. Isn't this forum about modeling our grows as close to natural processes as possible? Mulches occur in nature usually in the form of large piles of dropped leaves. Like JayKush has said, it doesn't get much better than decomposed leaf litter.

Cheers, all

Lilman

the compost pile is the imitation, not the other way around. A living system eats and breathes and drinks, and in outdoor temperate systems, it even sleeps and wakes.

all you need is a bit of alfalfa top dressed, and N-robbing is a non-issue. Especially If you are running no-till perpetual containers, mulch is important. It's not just about having the right chemicals around, it's about your soil actively decomposing and absorbing dead matter. It's about soil being alive, and therefore hungry.

another way to state this, is that you just need to keep things bacterial enough for fungi to have forage near the surface.

 

[h.h.]

Leaf liter is in various states of decomposing. The bottom is finished compost. The top is still leaf. You may get some green weeds mixed in as well as some wind blown dust and pollen. Bird shit, rat shit, dead bugs. Nature is constantly adding fresh material. You just find the same balance.

 

[C21H30O2]

But it isn't a compost pile h.h. Yes, adding green mulch will EVENTUALLY break down and add nitrogen to your mix. But while it is in the process of being decomposed, bacteria will be using N reserves in the soil, which would have otherwise been available to your lovely cannabis plant.

The point that I am trying to make is that there are much better ways to supplement N your grow, whether it be amending with alfalfa/blood meal, watering with fish emulsion, or using FPEs.

Mulch with decomposed organic matter. Isn't this forum about modeling our grows as close to natural processes as possible? Mulches occur in nature usually in the form of large piles of dropped leaves. Like JayKush has said, it doesn't get much better than decomposed leaf litter.

Cheers, all

Lilman

Nothing placed on the surface of the soil will not rob the soil of nitrogen. Nitrogen loss occurs when un-composted material is mixed into the soil. Anything organic placed on the surface will only feed the soil and make the plant happy.

 

[LilMan72003]

Nothing placed on the surface of the soil will not rob the soil of nitrogen. Nitrogen loss occurs when un-composted material is mixed into the soil. Anything organic placed on the surface will only feed the soil and make the plant happy.

uh. why would it be any different whether the non-decomposed material is mixed into the mix or is placed on top? Decomposition will occur either way.

 

[h.h.]

uh. why would it be any different whether the non-decomposed material is mixed into the mix or is placed on top? Decomposition will occur either way.

Think of the center of the compost pile where it gets hot. I don't want that around delicate roots. For the most part, I keep mulch away from the stem as well.

 

[C21H30O2]

uh. why would it be any different whether the non-decomposed material is mixed into the mix or is placed on top? Decomposition will occur either way.

The roots are in the soil, the decomposition occurs on the surface of the soil, just like in nature. This is the way plants were "made" to absorb nutrients. The highest biological activity occurs at the junction between the soil and the mulch because 1. this area has plenty of oxygen, and 2. this area remains moist -- life needs water. Life means nutrient cycling and nutrient cycling means happy plants growing in ideal conditions.

 

[mad librettist]

Didn't I tell you to check "teaming with microbes"?

ways to give advantage to bacteria:
bury the food
rake in the food
cut the food up small
choose things high in N

ways to give advantage to fungi:
leave the food on the surface or in the air
keep the food whole, do not cut up
choose woody (high C:N) foods (high in lignin and cellulose)


burying food vs mulching is a huge difference

If you have both high C:N and high N:C items in the mulch, the N robbing (more like borrowing) will all occur on the very top layers, where it is very easy to manage by adding more mulch

 

[h.h.]

While I don't bury the food, I often cover it with a light dusting of ewc or even a little soil to increase surface contact. I kind of use the lasagna method.
I'm curious now as to the advantages of nutrient cycling between the mulch and the soil. The back and forth ionic activity and what might be happening along with it. It's almost like a primitive nerve system, shooting signals back and forth.
Maybe a little too much Owsley.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

According to "Teaming with Microbes" the N loss is only in the very top layer of soil and should NOT be considered detrimental to your plants.

As Mad pointed out, it is more like borrowing anyway... for the nutrients do not evaporate into thin air. They are immobilized and processed by the microbes and eventually the nutes more readily available to plants then they were in the first place.

Leaf litter, green matter, clover....doesn't matter! A variety is best anyway... I like h.h.'s lasagna method!

 

[h.h.]

I'm currently dealing with leaf spot in my indoor grow...are you guys concerned with bringing diseases and fungus like this one in by bringing in leaves and such from outside?

I'm new to organics and i'm slowly working towards your guys' way of doing things...input, input, input! lol

thanks guys

I rotate my pots inside/outside taking advantage of as much sunshine as possible
I have more problems when I leave them inside under protective conditions where a single organism can thrive. Gnats in particular. Bringing the outside in, brings in the competition. While there are downfalls, just be choosy.

 

[LilMan72003]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Very interesting stuff, I will continue educating myself about the micro-world. Have respect for yall that go the extra mile to replicate the natural process....and I thought I considered myself an organic radical hehehehe

Regards
Lilman

 

[StrapAssassin42]

I rotate my pots inside/outside taking advantage of as much sunshine as possible
I have more problems when I leave them inside under protective conditions where a single organism can thrive. Gnats in particular. Bringing the outside in, brings in the competition. While there are downfalls, just be choosy.

As it started to get cold this fall i piled up the leaves in my yard and left em for a few days... thinking the bugs would congregate in the warm leaf pile... i was right.

I used these leafs for mulch with zero regrets! Nothing but good things to report from my grow...bugs everywhere but zero damage to my plants. I move pots around and i see several different types of spiders. I am confident i have a healthy "soil food web" in my rooms now and it feels good...the plants definitely reflect the extra effort it took intially.... and its easy now that its rolling!

 

[h.h.]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Very interesting stuff, I will continue educating myself about the micro-world. Have respect for yall that go the extra mile to replicate the natural process....and I thought I considered myself an organic radical hehehehe

Regards
Lilman

More like a return to normalcy than a radical approach.
A tweak here and there on an already perfected system.
One we have been programmed not to trust.
That was the radical part.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

We are not replicating nature... we are working with her!

 

[who dat is]

I'm looking into purchasing seed to sow for a living mulch for the next round and I was looking at possibly doing a mix of the crimson clover with regular dutch white. While looking up seeds I came across dichondra and vaguely remember seeing somebody mention it earlier in this thread. I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with it and what they have to say about it. Thanks.

 

[h.h.]

Organic mulches can dramatically impact soil microbial
activity and nutrient availability. Mulches with
a high carbon-to-nitrogen (C:N) ratio, such as hardwood bark, ground wood pallets, straw, and sawdust,
can induce nitrogen deficiency in plants by stimulating
microbial growth, which depletes underlying soils of
available nitrogen. On the other hand, mulches such as
composted yard waste and wood or bark blended with
composted sewage sludge can increase soil fertility and
plant growth because their low C:N ratio resembles
high quality forest litter. Mulches derived from the
bark of mature softwood trees, such as cypress and
pine, are quite resistant to decomposition by microbes
and thus have little effect on nutrient availability

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/SUL12.pdf

http://www.laspilitas.com/advanced/advamendments.htm
http://www.laspilitas.com/nature-of-california

 

[Dignan]

I'm an admitted science geek, but there are many times that the results of research are misapplied or misunderstood and this is one of them. The proof is in the pudding*. This thread covers a myriad of different scenarios (i.e. different types of mulches, different ways of mulching, various media, various volumes of media), but when I originally started this thread, I was speaking directly to:

1. Bark mulch
2. On the surface of 2-7 gallon pots
3. 1-2" deep
4. Removed after each harvest and not reused, and not turned into my soil (which is recycled)

*The pudding: plants are clearly not N-deficient.

 

[StrapAssassin42]

Dignan...what type of bark mulch do you use?

 

[LilMan72003]

I'm an admitted science geek, but there are many times that the results of research are misapplied or misunderstood and this is one of them. The proof is in the pudding*. This thread covers a myriad of different scenarios (i.e. different types of mulches, different ways of mulching, various media, various volumes of media), but when I originally started this thread, I was speaking directly to:

1. Bark mulch
2. On the surface of 2-7 gallon pots
3. 1-2" deep
4. Removed after each harvest and not reused, and not turned into my soil (which is recycled)

*The pudding: plants are clearly not N-deficient.

I agree with you 100%. My point being to use dried, woody, or decomposed mulches (leaves, bark, wood chip, composted forest products, straw, etc) vs green plant matter for proven positive results. We are on the same page.

-Lilman

 

[h.h.]

A living soil deserves a living mulch.
I do it in 6" pots. Size doesn't matter.
Why not take full advantage of your mulch? It takes up space.
Compost is best. Dust some ewc or maybe a little alfalfa. Green stuff will add nitrogen.
I guess you could use rocks as well and call it organic. Maybe keep it cleaner.
I just don't see a lot of bark and rock around plants out in nature. Mostly a progressive compost. It's worked well for a long time without deficiencies.