paradoxlost
Member
Just out of curiosity what do people think of a price for spent mushoom humus, aged for 3 years, at 15$a cubic foot
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Tommysalami
Member
Define mushroom humus? If it’s spend mushroom substrate the stuff should be cheap AF
And yes you read that right, $8 a bag. I’ve bought a lot there over the years and developed a relationship. Plus I send a ton of business there way I’d send a lot more if they stepped up their organic game. I also don’t think they sell much of the compost so I was probably buying last years left overs or something. All the same to me and the worms were still alive in the bags. I was there again today, had a good 2 hour discussion with them about lighting efficiency and why you couldn’t get me to switch from an HPS bulb for anything else on the market. I think I Unsold them on the use of anything but for a flower room. We also came up with some pretty cool organic aero cloner experiments I told them I’d run and report back to them on. Maybe a new product in the works? Or maybe just a slimey cloner for me? Who knows?
I’m pretty sure by the time I did the math the guy behind the counter realized he fucked up when he bought all of those LED lights to replace his HPS. Less energy use doesn’t mean more efficient. I offered to side by side them if he wanted to give me a fixture but he wanted to talk about cloning after I started writing down numbers
My suggestion, make friends, talk to those guys they don’t often get to have a 2 sided discussion about technicalities of some of their products. Some of them actually enjoy it and aren’t just trying to sell you the latest and greatest. Do I always get deals basically at cost? Hell no, usually I’m paying full retail but every once in a while....
Define mushroom humus? If it’s spend mushroom substrate the stuff should be cheap AF
And yes you read that right, $8 a bag. I’ve bought a lot there over the years and developed a relationship. Plus I send a ton of business there way I’d send a lot more if they stepped up their organic game. I also don’t think they sell much of the compost so I was probably buying last years left overs or something. All the same to me and the worms were still alive in the bags. I was there again today, had a good 2 hour discussion with them about lighting efficiency and why you couldn’t get me to switch from an HPS bulb for anything else on the market. I think I Unsold them on the use of anything but for a flower room. We also came up with some pretty cool organic aero cloner experiments I told them I’d run and report back to them on. Maybe a new product in the works? Or maybe just a slimey cloner for me? Who knows?
I’m pretty sure by the time I did the math the guy behind the counter realized he fucked up when he bought all of those LED lights to replace his HPS. Less energy use doesn’t mean more efficient. I offered to side by side them if he wanted to give me a fixture but he wanted to talk about cloning after I started writing down numbers
My suggestion, make friends, talk to those guys they don’t often get to have a 2 sided discussion about technicalities of some of their products. Some of them actually enjoy it and aren’t just trying to sell you the latest and greatest. Do I always get deals basically at cost? Hell no, usually I’m paying full retail but every once in a while....
new quantom uses 500 watts. people yield same as 1k hps, less heat. less required hight. not sure why you say balanced white light doesn't get good quality. save on AC save on bulbs save 50% on electricity. not all led are equal. What ive seen and read quality is as good if not better then hps when comparing the best leds. each there own though.
Tommysalami
Member
I’m admittedly not up on the latest and greatest. Are you saying someone if pulling 1000-1500g over a 4x4 running 500 watts? Does that include larf? I don’t include larf on my weights, that’s just hash material. I’d love to see it either way. Sounds interesting. I’ve read a TON of positive reports on LED but I’ve yet to see a study based on the scientific method that’s been reproduced by others. If what you’re a saying is true I should be able to double my coverage area, keep power consumption the same and double my yield. That would be impressive. But literally every LED manufacturer makes an almost identical claim so excuse my skepticism. What’s the cost? ROI means a bunch to me and it’s tough to beat a $200-$250 out the door 1k.
Quality wise how do we quantify that? THC %? Density? High? Bag appeal? Too subjective IMO. For instance you might think my favorite strain is trash, I might think the opposite. Without a measurable metric how do we reach a consensus?
Want to talk REAL efficiency gains? Check out the difference between a 1 ton 13 seer unit and a 1 ton 23 seer unit. I think it paid for itself before summer even hit. Plus I gained 4sqft of floor space and eliminated the loudest thing in the room and eliminated the need for a 800w dehumidifier in the summer. I bet most people would see more efficiency gains with their HVAC then one could realize with a light change. Maybe I need to snap a meter onto my sub panel and check out the consumption for a cycle. Total consumption. Then we can more accurately use g/w as a measuring stick. Otherwise its just talk of theory which doesn’t apply when evaluating performance metrics.
I certainly never insinuated balanced white light isn’t desired. My best yields came from 400’s running the old philips CMH bulbs the stopped making. Worst move ever. Basically the same CMH bulb they used to sell but now you’re stuck with their hood and their ballast and a non-mogul socket. My first light I actually bought for myself was a CMH, $40 ballast $75 hood, $50 bulb. What’s their gear run now? Bet it’s more than $200. Did the yield magically double with that cool new base? I’d probably still be running them if they were made.
Led has its place head room advantages especially but it’s gonna need to be pretty damn good for me to switch from the old tried and true 1k. There’s something to be said for simplicity beyond alll the financial math as well.
Quality wise how do we quantify that? THC %? Density? High? Bag appeal? Too subjective IMO. For instance you might think my favorite strain is trash, I might think the opposite. Without a measurable metric how do we reach a consensus?
Want to talk REAL efficiency gains? Check out the difference between a 1 ton 13 seer unit and a 1 ton 23 seer unit. I think it paid for itself before summer even hit. Plus I gained 4sqft of floor space and eliminated the loudest thing in the room and eliminated the need for a 800w dehumidifier in the summer. I bet most people would see more efficiency gains with their HVAC then one could realize with a light change. Maybe I need to snap a meter onto my sub panel and check out the consumption for a cycle. Total consumption. Then we can more accurately use g/w as a measuring stick. Otherwise its just talk of theory which doesn’t apply when evaluating performance metrics.
I certainly never insinuated balanced white light isn’t desired. My best yields came from 400’s running the old philips CMH bulbs the stopped making. Worst move ever. Basically the same CMH bulb they used to sell but now you’re stuck with their hood and their ballast and a non-mogul socket. My first light I actually bought for myself was a CMH, $40 ballast $75 hood, $50 bulb. What’s their gear run now? Bet it’s more than $200. Did the yield magically double with that cool new base? I’d probably still be running them if they were made.
Led has its place head room advantages especially but it’s gonna need to be pretty damn good for me to switch from the old tried and true 1k. There’s something to be said for simplicity beyond alll the financial math as well.
paradoxlost
Member
Define mushroom humus? If it’s spend mushroom substrate the stuff should be cheap AF
And yes you read that right, $8 a bag. I’ve bought a lot there over the years and developed a relationship. Plus I send a ton of business there way I’d send a lot more if they stepped up their organic game. I also don’t think they sell much of the compost so I was probably buying last years left overs or something. All the same to me and the worms were still alive in the bags. I was there again today, had a good 2 hour discussion with them about lighting efficiency and why you couldn’t get me to switch from an HPS bulb for anything else on the market. I think I Unsold them on the use of anything but for a flower room. We also came up with some pretty cool organic aero cloner experiments I told them I’d run and report back to them on. Maybe a new product in the works? Or maybe just a slimey cloner for me? Who knows?
I’m pretty sure by the time I did the math the guy behind the counter realized he fucked up when he bought all of those LED lights to replace his HPS. Less energy use doesn’t mean more efficient. I offered to side by side them if he wanted to give me a fixture but he wanted to talk about cloning after I started writing down numbers
My suggestion, make friends, talk to those guys they don’t often get to have a 2 sided discussion about technicalities of some of their products. Some of them actually enjoy it and aren’t just trying to sell you the latest and greatest. Do I always get deals basically at cost? Hell no, usually I’m paying full retail but every once in a while....
Humus as in it'd broken down long enough to contain a significant amount of humus rather than simply compost material.
Heres a link, theres a few threads going, not sure about icmag but there is one on rollitup
https://www.horticulturelightinggroup.ca/collections/all/products/hlg-550
And a good review here about it.
https://ledgardener.com/hlg-qb288-v2/#comments
People that have switched are happy, eventually everyone will make the switch. depends on each persons view on the ROI.
some people have calculated it between 1-2 years. Obviously depends on your scale, kw rate, cooling.
I have low Kw rate of 10 cents, don't need ac. so Im not switching just yet. But if I need to replace a light its def going to be one of these and I will do a side by side. No harm in getting one, testing it out side by side in your setup. worst case scenario you break even or you loose a few bucks, but youd learn a few things along the way and then really know what the state of led is.
Quality is tricky. but if it meets yours and your customers standards. thc/cannabinoid/ terpene tests come out good. If Its nice and dense. all that combined. Growmau5 did some sample analysis from a side by side once.
I got a 630 CMH. love it.
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Tommysalami
Member
Thanks for the info! Still looking at the math, assuming there’s no issues and not factoring in anything but the energy cost to run the light my ROI is 4.1 years. That’s assuming yield is identical as well. That’s a pretty long time IMO. By the time I finally break even on The cost of the light there will surely be even more efficient lights out there. To me it’s akin to buying a computer, by the time you Unbox it it’s already obsolete. The technology is moving so fast. Why would I shell out $2700 to replace my 2 1k lights to operate at a loss for 4 years? It doesn’t make sense. I’m using simple math here to keep things easy. ROI is probably more like 2-3 years depending how often/how much you pay to change your hid bulbs. Still, that’s a long time for your average home grower. Growing on an industrial scale? This is certainly a conversation worth having. For me that $2700 has better use. I could throw up 2 more 1k and double my yield tomorrow and pocket the rest. Th energy cost for my entire home is a shade over $6-7/day in the summer. In July I might hit $10/day. That’s 2400w of light a 1 ton mini split, 4 fans plus the rest of my house which is cooled with 3 tons of AC. I simply don’t use enough power for the efficiency gains to be worth talking about. Espcially when You tell me yield is the same as a 1k.
I am familiar (maybe too familiar) with LED tech in an industrial setting (not growing, just for use as lighting on a small scale) and run into the same issues. By the time I take a new diode and develop it for my application there’s something better/brighter/cheaper on the market. Thankfully efficiency isn’t really a concern with these types of applications.
Wait a year or two and see. Before I left my last job I was working with a single diode producing nearly 300 lumens/watt and I was putting over 100 watts to it. Not for continuous use. Not yet anyway. Cool stuff is coming but it’s very application specific.
I’m glad you love the CMH I loved mine when I ran the S51 ballasts. Fantastic spectrum. Really sad they priced it out of the market for me. If Phillips still made their 400w mogul bulb I’d still be using them. I bought dozens when they announced they were being discontinued. I literally pulled the last one from my veg light late last year and went to a conversion bulb. Noticeable difference. Wish they still made them.
Sorry I derailed this thread!! Let’s get back to organic soil!
I am familiar (maybe too familiar) with LED tech in an industrial setting (not growing, just for use as lighting on a small scale) and run into the same issues. By the time I take a new diode and develop it for my application there’s something better/brighter/cheaper on the market. Thankfully efficiency isn’t really a concern with these types of applications.
Wait a year or two and see. Before I left my last job I was working with a single diode producing nearly 300 lumens/watt and I was putting over 100 watts to it. Not for continuous use. Not yet anyway. Cool stuff is coming but it’s very application specific.
I’m glad you love the CMH I loved mine when I ran the S51 ballasts. Fantastic spectrum. Really sad they priced it out of the market for me. If Phillips still made their 400w mogul bulb I’d still be using them. I bought dozens when they announced they were being discontinued. I literally pulled the last one from my veg light late last year and went to a conversion bulb. Noticeable difference. Wish they still made them.
Sorry I derailed this thread!! Let’s get back to organic soil!
Tommysalami
Member
Sorry I still can’t edit posts, last post on the subject. Did I miss the link where someone is yielding 1k results off this board?
New guy. Got anything planted in that soil yet? Mine is rocking along, plant growth is awesome and the worms seem to love it. Hopefully they can double their population in the next 3-4 months. I’m hoping that will really amp things up. I’m not really sure I like the straw as a cover but maybe it will help keep the gnats at bay? Smells like a damn barn in my grow room right now. Seems to keep the soil moist and the worms happy though. I’m thinking next round I’ll scratch what’s left of the straw into the surface and try to find a denser cover crop with more variety than just the Dutch clover I have planted.
New guy. Got anything planted in that soil yet? Mine is rocking along, plant growth is awesome and the worms seem to love it. Hopefully they can double their population in the next 3-4 months. I’m hoping that will really amp things up. I’m not really sure I like the straw as a cover but maybe it will help keep the gnats at bay? Smells like a damn barn in my grow room right now. Seems to keep the soil moist and the worms happy though. I’m thinking next round I’ll scratch what’s left of the straw into the surface and try to find a denser cover crop with more variety than just the Dutch clover I have planted.
Sure I can. All I meant is that a soil mix is not no-till. No-till is a technique of growing and I saw no such description of a planned event in your opening remarks. In my opinion, no-till ends up dependent upon the life in the soil combined with the abundance/variety of minerals (rocks) laid down.
The same thing basically applies to statements about living soil mixes. Living soil is not a mix. It is what comes to life in the soil. And yes, certainly some mixes are more conducive to this life.
Were I proposing a no-till endeavor, I would likely be talking about or asking how long I'm estimating my soil/mix will last and estimating what I may need over this period, added initially or topdressed as time progresses.
I asked about worms because someone talked about worms but I did not see them in your list. It was not a comment nor suggestion...just a question.
Apologies: I just reread and saw the worms at the end.
BTW best of luck.
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Something tells me this entire mix will be out of whack for certain.
I used to do lots of M3 tests with the coot mix when I first delved into soil balancing and testing years ago.
With high amounts of rock dust (4 cups) I would see around 250 Ppms of Fe as well as high Alu. I can only imagine test results on 8-9 cups of basalt especially being that is only one of two amendments being used in the mix.
Coots mix is often out of whack. This will happen when inputs vary in composition and volumetric measurements are used.
I've also seen the Iron spike with rock dust application. I think this is a bigger problem than Aluminum. Mehlich 3 Al numbers aren't indicative of plant available Al and it primarily becomes a serious problem at pH extremes that we don't usually experience.
Don't get me wrong, Coots will grow decent looking plants. It just has serious problems and many growers are too deep in the dogma to address them. If you have 500-1000 ppm P there is a ton of energy along with higher than needed N up front. Then there's the excess minerals that can put the pH slightly above 7.0 and get you through a few runs, but you still have bug pressure, and you still have to be really good at watering otherwise the roots are stressed in such thick soil.
If you've got worms working I suspect they are making organic material that has a higher cec than the original mix. The pH drops if you don't remineralize. Then what happens after a few runs the plants start mining minerals and all you're adding are topdressings of neem and rotting material? Weak plants that need a fancy tincture to kill the bugs that are drawn to their weak frequency, thats what you get.
You have to open the soil up if you're going to reuse it. Either physically with more aeration or by adding the right amount and type of calcium.
