Mount Zion 2017

[MountZionCollec]

This is the soil test and recommendations done on my Native soil that was in the fire area. This amendments is what I added last year. I also added about 1/2" of hummus, a thin layer of gypsum and about 30# per 1000 square feet of crab meal. I used Oyster shell instead of the high AG calcium and I used Fish bone meal instead of Calphos. This is the soil that is in the walkways of my hillside area as well since the walkways are unamended.

 

[Manivelle]

wow your soil was really poor . i guess you'll see significant change in the near futur .

if i may recomend you should try on a little patc to put a layer of 2" of some Rameal Chipped Wood on your 1" layer of compost to activate the decomp .
this way if it work you'll have some soil microlife activities boosted (like in a forest to create humus ) all elements you lack of will be provided by the insects manures and fungus decomposing the vegetal and also the minerals material.

 

[Chunkypigs]

I will post a picture of what the recommendations look like in my next post. It costs $45 for recommendations and the logans lab soil test costs like $30.

Yes I put the exact same stuff in my berries-veggies and orchard. I will post the recommednations that I added last year which was more extensive then this year.

-No top dressing, fertigation, or foliar sprays will be done unless a crisis happens on a few plants in which case I would only foliar spray them, but I would not keep cuttings of the mother.

-I have never used pumice, is it like perlite? I like a heavy dense soil to keep the watering to a minimum, I do want to add more organic matter and wood mulch to break down over time and may also leave the straw to break down as well, not sure yet.

-I could not open the first 2 links that you posted. BUt I will be checking out the KIS links thank you. I do like the idea of running the manure through he worm bins, I would love to get a worm operation going here in the next 2 years! I will also be buying a wood chipper so I can begin to clear out my 5 acres of forest and chip the brush and small trees and then compost the chippings for 6 months or more and lay over my area.

wood chippers big enough to work properly will cost more than a house if you have 5 acres of forest to clear. the one my guy uses was almost 100K.

I have been able to get as much chipped wood as I can handle for free by opening up an area for a tree service to dump on my property.
he brings a truckload every weekend as it's free for him to dump but a 15 minute drive into the country. once a year I push it into a pile.
I'm building soil with it on top of several acres that got hundreds of loads of slightly dirty fill from ditches of the local road getting rebuilt some years back.
use it for garden mulch now, trails and compost in time.

the felled trees could be used to start a system of hugelculture swales on your hillside so you are able to capture all the rain that falls.
permaculture sites get into this concept deeply.
you may even find you are able to grow all the cannabis you need and save that forest, they can be a pretty groovy place to live and enjoy your cannabis and food!

the links were to old Gravely tractors digging holes with the rotary plow attachment.
these little tractors go everywhere safely and will replace a horse and many workers swinging a pick or shovel.
I watch craigslist for them and got one of mine for a song that was barely used.

I would spend the chipper money on infrastructure to load/haul/compost animal waste from hobby farms and equestrian facilities.
that's assuming you can't trade weed or a bit of cash to the animal owners in exchange for having them haul shit to you.

the small farmers near my land are all drowning in excess manure and stall bedding and the dairy ops all have shit/piss lagoons to dispose of.

weed farmers that take advantage of waste streams where businesses have to pay for disposal like this are going to have a better chance to survive corp weed.

wow your soil was really poor . i guess you'll see significant change in the near futur .
if i may recomend you should try on a little patc to put a layer of 2" of some Rameal Chipped Wood on your 1" layer of compost to activate the decomp .
this way if it work you'll have some soil microlife activities boosted (like in a forest to create humus ) all elements you lack of will be provided by the insects manures and fungus decomposing the vegetal material.

THIS! really will help with water retention too!
just rake them back to amend and replant.

I have to believe that working up a smartpot sized area for each plant that was lightened a bit and had lots of compost would get you bigger plants and you could put the amendments right where each plant was.

I like the results you are seeing from native soil so far and it's really great that you are documenting this so well.

you are not limited at all by plant count now, are you?

I hope things continue to work out in your county .

are you looking at a state license yet?

 

[MountZionCollec]

The organic % on the native was between 12-13%, but in the report it is Written in as N/A by the soil consultant because he doesn't use organic matter to determine his recommendations so he didn't copy it over on that one report for some reason.

 

[MountZionCollec]

wow your soil was really poor . i guess you'll see significant change in the near futur .

if i may recomend you should try on a little patc to put a layer of 2" of some Rameal Chipped Wood on your 1" layer of compost to activate the decomp .
this way if it work you'll have some soil microlife activities boosted (like in a forest to create humus ) all elements you lack of will be provided by the insects manures and fungus decomposing the vegetal and also the minerals material.

What is Patc? And what is Rameal? So in the Garden your recommending to put a 2" layer of chipped wood over a 1" layer of compost next year? Yes I do really like the sound of the that, I am also going to be calling the wood chipping companies around here who are chopping up the burned and dead wood I could potentially get a whole bunch of chipped wood for mulch.

 

[MountZionCollec]

I am not trying to clear 5 acres of forest, I am looking to clear all the brush within that 5 acres of forest so I can walk through it and it isnt a fire hazard. I'm really just looking to be able to chip bushes and brush, and my cannabis plants and at most maybe something 3"thick?

Yes I really like the tree service idea, we have been talking about it for months and we are DEF going to try to arrange this. Im pretty far out of the way but maybe ill find someone. This is a great option.

I also 100% agree on the infrastructure in handling animal waste from local farms. This year I have been meeting a lot more farmers who I could potentially get some shit from. I should make enough money this year to invest in this side of things.

Im really not looking for much bigger plants, besides the small ones I transplanted mid July. I just need to get them in the ground earlier so they all fill up there 4-5' of space. They were basically all planted from small pots in July, so if I get them in the ground all before the last week of June I think they will all fill in the space. I like medium sized plants. I am not limited by plant numbers in any way, I have 9000 square feet to use as I want. I really like 5' plants the most. Very cheap to support, doesnt take a long time to get to that size. easy to prune. Good light penetration into the plant and more even quality throughout the plant compared to larger plants. Less issues with Mold and pm.

Things are looking quite well for me in the county. I recently got my Local permit from the county! I am now preparing for the state licenses a little but I will begin much more in November once I see what end up happening with my county as far as regulations. One rule the state is thinking of putting in is a ban on generators except in an emergency so I am in the process of doubling my solar infrastructure with $16k cost.

wood chippers big enough to work properly will cost more than a house if you have 5 acres of forest to clear. the one my guy uses was almost 100K.

I have been able to get as much chipped wood as I can handle for free by opening up an area for a tree service to dump on my property.
he brings a truckload every weekend as it's free for him to dump but a 15 minute drive into the country. once a year I push it into a pile.
I'm building soil with it on top of several acres that got hundreds of loads of slightly dirty fill from ditches of the local road getting rebuilt some years back.
use it for garden mulch now, trails and compost in time.

the felled trees could be used to start a system of hugelculture swales on your hillside so you are able to capture all the rain that falls.
permaculture sites get into this concept deeply.
you may even find you are able to grow all the cannabis you need and save that forest, they can be a pretty groovy place to live and enjoy your cannabis and food!

the links were to old Gravely tractors digging holes with the rotary plow attachment.
these little tractors go everywhere safely and will replace a horse and many workers swinging a pick or shovel.
I watch craigslist for them and got one of mine for a song that was barely used.
View Image

I would spend the chipper money on infrastructure to load/haul/compost animal waste from hobby farms and equestrian facilities.
that's assuming you can't trade weed or a bit of cash to the animal owners in exchange for having them haul shit to you.

the small farmers near my land are all drowning in excess manure and stall bedding and the dairy ops all have shit/piss lagoons to dispose of.

weed farmers that take advantage of waste streams where businesses have to pay for disposal like this are going to have a better chance to survive corp weed.



THIS! really will help with water retention too!
just rake them back to amend and replant.

I have to believe that working up a smartpot sized area for each plant that was lightened a bit and had lots of compost would get you bigger plants and you could put the amendments right where each plant was.

I like the results you are seeing from native soil so far and it's really great that you are documenting this so well.

you are not limited at all by plant count now, are you?

I hope things continue to work out in your county .

are you looking at a state license yet?

 

[plantingplants]

Weird that consultant doesn't consider OM. It complexes nutrients especially micronutrients. Spectrum (a soil lab) even uses an index to account for that effect. They would probably say you effectively have 0 Cu for example.

Also, in your first soil, high pH means calcium carbonate is unavailable so your estimated Ca cec saturation is likely off.

Anyways, I told you before but I continue to like your style- use native, keep it simple easy cheap no fertilization during the year, keep them a manageable size, etc. And beyond that your property in general And concepts. You have a really cool thing goin on! That's awesome you have your permits too. It ain't too bad but living with fear of consequences isn't a very nice way to live.

 

['Boogieman']

Im really not looking for much bigger plants, besides the small ones I transplanted mid July. I just need to get them in the ground earlier so they all fill up there 4-5' of space. They were basically all planted from small pots in July, so if I get them in the ground all before the last week of June I think they will all fill in the space. I like medium sized plants. I am not limited by plant numbers in any way, I have 9000 square feet to use as I want. I really like 5' plants the most. Very cheap to support, doesnt take a long time to get to that size. easy to prune. Good light penetration into the plant and more even quality throughout the plant compared to larger plants. Less issues with Mold and pm.

I would like to pick your brain about plant size and potency if you don't mind. I'm just a guerilla grower from Indiana who tries to grow enough to smoke on for a year. Last year I grew some large indica dominant plants and the potency just wasn't there compared to the smaller plants of the same strain and the larger sativa dominant strains smoked much better too after a cure. I was thinking the bigger plants must have been bad phenos and I got unlucky with my larger plants. Some people think smaller plants are more potent, what do you think?

 

[Limeygreen]

If you just want to clear brush in the woodlot, removed anything poisonous to goats and pigs, get some in there and watch them clean up for you, then eat em if you don't want to keep them around or keep one or two to graze the 5 acres continuously to keep a build up of brush. Pigs will just root things up and clear up the soil a bit, perfect to go behind the goats that don't take out the roots.

 

[Manivelle]

patc = patch and rameal = ramial chipped wood (rcw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrGUVKfjS2Y

So in the Garden your recommending to put a 2" layer of chipped wood over a 1" layer of compost next year?

yes but but nor really wood chips

I'm really just looking to be able to chip bushes and brush, and my cannabis plants and at most maybe something 3"thick?

those bush and brushes sould be better than wood chips . you'd better use wood chips to compost them in mounds . wood chips are too long to decompose atthe surface of the soil .

if you go that way you will soon need trees to provides branches . and only branches . cause an trunk produce more branches than a young tres who need to grow to reach the same size .

this way you create what is called pollard trees . and this produce all you need to feed your soil . + a lot leaves between the cut , helping nature and water infiltration etc....

just put a layer of chipped brushes and wait for the soil to digest everything .
compost can help .

straw and gree/cover crop can be used to .
very good for the no till technic

 

[RoostaPhish]

Seems like they are referring to the lasagna or "back to eden" method.

 

[Tipunch]

Lucky man! Great thread btw!

What differences do you see between Schnazz#2 and Schnazz#4?

Thanks

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Do you have those ancestral skunk in flower yet?

 

[MountZionCollec]

Weird that consultant doesn't consider OM. It complexes nutrients especially micronutrients. Spectrum (a soil lab) even uses an index to account for that effect. They would probably say you effectively have 0 Cu for example.

Also, in your first soil, high pH means calcium carbonate is unavailable so your estimated Ca cec saturation is likely off.

Anyways, I told you before but I continue to like your style- use native, keep it simple easy cheap no fertilization during the year, keep them a manageable size, etc. And beyond that your property in general And concepts. You have a really cool thing goin on! That's awesome you have your permits too. It ain't too bad but living with fear of consequences isn't a very nice way to live.

I have been considering to a sulfur spray onto the soil and potentially onto the plants to get sulfur in there before it the weather cools off and drop the PH slightly.

THe consultant does some additional playing around with some of the numbers in relation to eachother that he explains in his book, I forget some of I need to reread it. But he may have realized what your saying on calcium because he had me add 200 pounds per 1000 square feet for calphos.

The consultant has written on book that I would highly recommend called the ideal soil. Albrecht did all of the original soil research and the interaction of nutrients in the soil with a soil that only had organic matter of 4%. If the organic matter is above 4% I dont believe he recommends adding organic matter as the research shows it isnt a requirement. He is mostly attempting to balance the minerals in the soil, and the more organic matter you add and the different types of sources you add will make the analysis for him almost impossible to do unless each source or organic matter has been tested so he knows whats in it. if i had to guess most people who use him add organic matter over time if there growing in the ground, and if there in pots they probably already well over the OM they need.

 

[MountZionCollec]

I would like to pick your brain about plant size and potency if you don't mind. I'm just a guerilla grower from Indiana who tries to grow enough to smoke on for a year. Last year I grew some large indica dominant plants and the potency just wasn't there compared to the smaller plants of the same strain and the larger sativa dominant strains smoked much better too after a cure. I was thinking the bigger plants must have been bad phenos and I got unlucky with my larger plants. Some people think smaller plants are more potent, what do you think?

Im from Indiana too! North, central or South? Im from the North, 45 Minutes outside Chicago.

It is never exact science on the quality versus large vigorous females verses nonvigorous females within a specific strain. THOUGH, on average it does seem the MOST vigorous plants rarely are the highest quality, usually the highest quality phenos I find are not the largest phenos I have. If you pop enough seeds you can find high quality and vigor.

Also, the larger a plant get the more variation in quality you get over the plant compared to medium sized plants.

 

[MountZionCollec]

If you just want to clear brush in the woodlot, removed anything poisonous to goats and pigs, get some in there and watch them clean up for you, then eat em if you don't want to keep them around or keep one or two to graze the 5 acres continuously to keep a build up of brush. Pigs will just root things up and clear up the soil a bit, perfect to go behind the goats that don't take out the roots.

Do Goats eat the bark of trees or does brush keep them from doing that? The sheep just started to do a little to much damage on my trees. I absolutely love Pig meat, so ya Pigs could def be an option in the future. eventually ima buy my neighbors 10 acres, so they would have another 5 acres to graze on in the forest side.

 

[MountZionCollec]

just watched the video very informative thank you for posting!

I also do like the idea of chipping branches, as I clear the forest I will be cutting the lower branches on trees to protect from fire so there should be plenty of branches to chip up in addition to the brush to do the RCW until I have some pollard trees.

I Will def like to do some experimentation with the pollard tree shape to harvest branches off to chip into RCW. But I have SOOOOOOOOO many trees that I feel itll take me a few years just to clear out the lower branches in the fire zone before Ill have to rely on Pollard trees so that should give me some time to get the process going.

Do you have any recommendation on types of trees species that are best with this method?

patc = patch and rameal = ramial chipped wood (rcw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrGUVKfjS2Y


yes but but nor really wood chips



those bush and brushes sould be better than wood chips . you'd better use wood chips to compost them in mounds . wood chips are too long to decompose atthe surface of the soil .

if you go that way you will soon need trees to provides branches . and only branches . cause an trunk produce more branches than a young tres who need to grow to reach the same size .

this way you create what is called pollard trees . and this produce all you need to feed your soil . + a lot leaves between the cut , helping nature and water infiltration etc....

just put a layer of chipped brushes and wait for the soil to digest everything .
compost can help .

straw and gree/cover crop can be used to .
very good for the no till technic

 

[MountZionCollec]

Lucky man! Great thread btw!

What differences do you see between Schnazz#2 and Schnazz#4?

Thanks

Well since I havent seen-smoked-smelled any flowers on the Shnaz #4 I can only comment on there growth. They seem to be a little more tough and hardy compared to the Shnaz #2. In the Schnaz #2 I had 2 partial mutants out of 7 females I ended with, and so far I havent found ONE mutant out of ~+60 females of Schnaz 4. The Schnaz #4 seems to be a little more "indica" in wide leaf shape and shorter plant height compared to the Schnaz #2. The Schnaz #4 is better at uptaking nutrients, seems better suited to not requiring foliar sprays then Schnaz 2...I have zero nutrient deficits on any of my Schnaz 4, and I did have issues with a couple of the Schnaz 2.

 

[MountZionCollec]

Do you have those ancestral skunk in flower yet?

I was walking by the Ancestral Skunk a few days ago and there were 3 males in FULL BLOWN flowering, they were going to releasing pollen in just a few weeks I couldnt believe it. They were too far gone I had to rip them out so I wont be keeping any males.

I have 4 Females. 2 that look like normal healthy plants, 1 that is basically a normal plant, and one that is healthy but grows like shit as it seperates into two main stalks low to the ground instead of staying just one main stem and stalk.

 

[MountZionCollec]

I am starting to move plants into the Greenhouse.

I am still ball deep in taking cuttings on mothers and fathers. I Was started to lose some but now I am back on track. I wasnt used to having SO many, but now I have a process in place that is working.

I needed to do some pruning on 2 of my fig trees so I decided to take 8 cuttings on them as well so we will see how that goes. I am treating them just like my cannabis as the cuttings are on the soft wood part of the tree, only difference is I have them in pots of soil in the humidity domes instead of Rockwool. I also ordered 19 more fig trees to test over the winter to see who is cold hardy enough to plant here next spring. Lots of hardy varieties I purchased, many from Treesofjoydotcom which is a fig nursury on the east coast who is a fig tree saver going around in the ethnic neighborhoods finding old fig trees that have been surviving for decades unprotected in zone 6!