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motor contactor help????????

L

livewire420

Member
ok guys this is what i got and what im trying to do but need help with. i started asking about flip/flops in anther thread and manitu told me about these things called contactors. well with out thinking i was very interested in this. only problem that i failed to realize cause neither of us brought up what kind of voltage id have going to this http://www.omron.com.au/product_info/J7KN/index.asp

and of course little did i recognize while look at the page it was 240 i think.

now im still interest in this contactor deal but is it possible to get a 110v 600w hps ballast to run 2 600w hps lights on a 110v wiring with a 110v contactor or will i have to run a 240v wire. sorry if this is confusing. here the picture he posted up for me.



:bashhead:
 
M

manitu

Member
The most important stuff from the flip-flop thread:

The omron contactor is delivered in models from 24 to550V AC + many DC voltages.

ANY model can switch any voltage up to 600V at max the rated current, but they are made to start and stop big electric engines, and will handle spikes with higher voltage. (exept the "AR" model-only for single 400/600W)

You can hook up four extra switches on top of the contactor, controlling an additional ballast! On some omron model, you can use eight! extra switches, controlling a total of three ballasts.( or six, if you go the single-pole route)



N.O. means "Normally Open"(not connected), N.C. means "Normally Closed"(connected)!
So lamp no. 1 must use the two N.C. channels, and lamp no. 2 must use the N.O. channels.
When you apply voltage from the timer, the N.C channels open, and the N.O. channels close.

Maybe this makes more sense.(sorry for the shitty paint-drawings..)
internals:
contactor2.jpg



.manitu
 
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M

manitu

Member
IMPORTANT!!!!

The J7KNA-AR-22-110 only switches 2 amps at 400V !! It's enough for 600W HPS, but not for 1000'.

The J7KNA-09-XX-110 is not delivered in a "22" version (2NO-2NC) This is the contactor i tought I was pointing you to . It has a heavier spring, for heavy inductive loads, but the same thermal rating as the "AR" (10amp)

The J7KN-XXX-22-110 is the answer for you power-junkies out there!! Replace XXX with thermal rating in amperes.
The best price I can find now, is like 55 USD for a Omron J7KN-14-22-230, rated at 5,5KW engine load/17,3KW resistive load at 400V, and about 30 USD for 4 extra switches. should be the same for the 110V-type


Heres the
spec's for all of them.

.manitu
 
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pastor420

pastor420

Member
The main reason is that you aren't switching lights per se but rather the ballast. A light is primarily a resistive load as opposed to a ballast or motor that is more of a inductive load. The collapsing magnetic field of the inductor can cause voltage spikes that a resistive load can't cause.
 
M

manitu

Member
The American said:
Why use an expensive motor contactor on HID lights?Would you use a lighting contactor for a motor load?http://www.abbsales.com/lightingcontactors.htm
Click to expand...

Expensive?? The contactors you are listing starts at 120$ , the one I would use costs less that half.

But my main selling point about contactors, in general: they are safe!
One day, it will stop working, but it will NEVER short-circuit (If you don't melt it, that is..)

.manitu
 
B

Betty's Boy

Member
I think what your looking for is a "definate purpose contactor" probably a 25 amp with a 120 volt coil...Are these light's being ran on different schedule's or at the same time..?
 
M

manitu

Member
A contactor is a contactor is a contactor.......and they're all just big relay's anyway...

Does'nt matter that much.. It must have 2xN.C.+2XN.O. , or two alternating switches, and it must be rated high enough. I prefer contactors because they are durable, and switches much higher loads than their termal-rating.

.manitu
 
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cocktail frank

cocktail frank

Ubiquitous
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
its not going to run them at the same time.
you can't run 2 600w bulbs off 1 600w ballast.
i was thinking by the diagram that you wanted to run 2 600w's off 1 600w ballast at different times.
if you want to run 2 600w bulbs/ ballasts at the same time, you dont need a contactor.
but you will need another ballast.
 
G

Guest

Didnt check the prices too good manitu,got me.I know the motor contactors are more heavy duty but the definate purpose is made for HID loads,I've wired dozens for that purpose.Your right though,a contactor is a contactor,just a relay with a coil
 
G

GorillaGrower

Member
I'm so confused.. :D livewire are you trying to build a Flip flop (a unit that contains relays,, taking a single ballast lamp wire and making it into to lighted hoods in two different rooms.. lit on opposing schedules) or do you have multiple ballasts and want a unit that will safely turn them off and on per scheduled timer.

If you want the flip flop.. these work nte electronics r04-11a30-120 at allied electronics
 
mr cheese

mr cheese

Member
manitu said:
You can hook up four extra switches on top of the contactor, controlling an additional ballast! On some omron model, you can use eight! extra switches, controlling a total of three ballasts.( or six, if you go the single-pole route)


actor2.jpg[/IMG]


.manitu
Click to expand...


could you explain further on this mate? so i could use 1 of these contactors to switch 6 bulbs? using 3 ballast? instead of needing 1 contactor per ballast?
have u got a pic of these switches? cheers....mrc
 
M

manitu

Member
mr cheese said:
could you explain further on this mate? so i could use 1 of these contactors to switch 6 bulbs? using 3 ballast? instead of needing 1 contactor per ballast?
have u got a pic of these switches? cheers....mrc
Click to expand...

OK. first, you can add 4 extra slave switches on top of the contactor, and on some models you can add side switches too. However, to run 4 or 6 ballasts you can only switch one of the two hot wires to each bulb. This is OK in a living room , but not in bathroom or a kitchen, so I would not recomend it.

Remember that all switches must meet the termal requirements, and the contactor must have the switching force for ALL switches.
wich means that if you run 8 wires with 2a/400v, the contactor must be able to switch a total of 16A/400V. 6400 VA. (+ inductive currents)

.manitu
 
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M

manitu

Member
livewire420 said:
GorillaGrower: well im gonna have to go with the flip/flop cause i cant seem to find the contactors.... owell no big deal i do have a questions about the flip/flop.
do i have to use 240v wiring im not in a basement or nor do i have 240 running any where else but to my dryer. id like to make the flip/flop kinda like this but without the to 240v wire.
Click to expand...

To clarify some things:

A contactor is the same as a relay, but bigger!

They are both just coil operated switches, When you apply a voltage on the coil, the switch will operate.

What you need is a relay/contactor with a 110v coil, but with 400/600V switches.

It does'nt matter if you use a relay or a contactor, but a contactor has 4 switches, so you can use one per ballast (to switch both wires to the bulb) or two ballasts on one contactor (if you swich only one wire).

Using relays, you must use two relays on one lamp to switch both wires to the bulb, since relay's with several switches, that meet our needs , are hard to find.

On the other hand, a contactor wich can't switch 2 1000w ballast is hard to find.

.manitu
 
L

livewire420

Member
thanks .manitu you've been very helpful my friend. i just get these really bad headaches when i try in find these contactors and nothin is in english when you type it in the search bar, and for the ones that are i cant every find the right specs.... that is a great idea though hope its useful to the fellow icers and if it is and ya'll find the right specs then post them up for morons like me, cause i cant find none under $150 usd. and ive been looking for the omron types you been posting seems like they dont sell them where im from but hey i still havent called the home depot yet to see if they have em. but i have went to the site a typed in contactors then i just tried the model #. they couldnt give me info on that site either. sorry for the babble just frustrated. think im gonna hit the bong. :joint:
 
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