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MOSCA
- Thread starter the gnome
- Start date
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Good post doob.
I stand corrected.
I stand corrected.
Exactly why I choose to buy all of my gear as pure as I can and so would only purchase from Bros Grimm from this point forward as the Pineapple and fruit punch have pretty much been bred out of Cindy ever since the F2 or F3 generations.
I went forward and have placed my last 3 remaining NuggetShiner's Foundary C99 in for a final try and germinating as these are fairly old according to Nugg himself it would be a miracle if any of them make it. Created from Joey Weed f3, Wally f2 and gno3 f2 stocks. JW and wally pineapple males used and was very promising when it came out. I figured if they didn't get run now they might never so time will tell.
I went forward and have placed my last 3 remaining NuggetShiner's Foundary C99 in for a final try and germinating as these are fairly old according to Nugg himself it would be a miracle if any of them make it. Created from Joey Weed f3, Wally f2 and gno3 f2 stocks. JW and wally pineapple males used and was very promising when it came out. I figured if they didn't get run now they might never so time will tell.
militia420
Active member
I've gone through 6/10 of the MOSCA C99 F1 that I obtained around 4/18/16. Only one didn't pop. The others sprouted but none pushed off their shells. I helped 4 out of their shells after the stem got out of the soil about an inch and slowed/stopped growth. Only 2 started to barely grow but they petered out. I'm massively bummed.
What's the deal with getting MOSCA to provide replacements? I don't know that I trust the viability of any more of the C99 F1 stock at seedbay since this run has been so poor. If MOSCA will make an order replacement are there more recent, equal priced, c99 seeds that others can recommend asking for instead?
I'd appreciate any help. I've got a mess of medical issues and no money coming in so this is a big deal for me.
Thanks
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I can't send you a PM yet as you don't have the 50 posts required so I guess I am going to risk this account with this reply...
So first things first:
I mentioned further up that peakseedsBC has comparably inexpensive C99 seeds. I haven't popped them yet and there is not much information on them to find.
They are also not officially listed on peakseedsBC's website (Mike has said that he really has to update the website but keeps forgetting/pushing that back). If you mail him, he will offer them to you and answer any and all questions you may have. Mike is just awesome like that.
The price will range from 2-3 bucks per seed, depending on your business savvy, size of your order etc. etc.
If the story of their ancestry can be believed, then peakseedsBC's C99 comes from Frostbrothers C99 which comes from Brother's Grimm C99.
So it SHOULD be good. But I only have Mike's words on that so far and the one or two people I spoke to who grew this variety.
They were all convinced that it is great.
Now on to the "risk my account" section:
Seedbay and Boutique are sponsoring this forum and as such we should support and not badmouth them.
However...
In my quest for BOG seeds in Europe, I spoke with them and was told they have some packs lying around and could get me some.
I had previously spoken with BOG directly however and he could not remember when they last ordered beans from him, so he could not imagine how old these beans must be.
When I asked them about this, I didn't get a response...
Long story short: If you buy from the Bay or Bou, make sure you know exactly what you are buying and how old the beans are.
I am not saying all their stock is old as hell, I know for a fact that this is not true as they also carry some new varieties that just can't be old.
But they do carry a good amount of stock that is very, very old.
See Rez's gear...
They do however usually discount the seeds that have been stored longer. The question is if the price is fair after the discount.
The 100 SSSDH seed packs from Reservoir Seeds for example are perceived by many to be a great offer because the price is heavily discounted but they are at least 5 years old and thusly don't germ so great.
What I am saying is basically this:
If you buy seeds from the Bay/Bou that are potentially quite old, be aware of it and consider it in your purchasing decision.
I mean the C99 bx beans from Mosca have been out of production for a strong minute, haven't they? I am not aware that Mosca is producing fresh C99 bx seeds...
So if you know this and buy them, you gotta prepare yourself for potentially old seedstock and difficulties germing it. Just how it is ...
The next thing is that if you don't buy from the breeder directly, your contact person is the seedvendor, not the breeder directly. So if you believe to be entitled to a replacement, you would have to contact your vendor.
Then it depends on how the vendor reacts and sees things...
They might say "well obviously these beans were old, that's why they are discounted so heavily, sorry no replacement" and I would say they have a legitimate reason for that stance.
But they might just as well value customer satisfaction and their reputation so highly that they will give you at least some form of replacement.
Can't really say but my impression of the Bou/Bay is that they might sometimes take their sweet time but they usually come through and have good rapport with most who buy from them.
So I would suggest contacting them. If I am not mistaken the normal way around here would be to send a PM to oldpink but as you don't have the 50 posts required for PMs yet, I suppose you would have to write an email to the bou/bay and see what happens.
My advice is to be friendly and not too demanding. The way I see it (from the little information I have), you bought some old beans (possibly not being aware how old they were) and they didn't germ well. The beans were however already discounted so ....
I think it would be a standup move to offer you replacements but I wouldn't say they are obliged to do so in any way. If they do, it would be "good business" or high value on customer satisfaction. If not, I would say you really can't complain too much although I understand how it sucks for you.
But the normal result would just be that you don't recommend Mosca, Bou/bay to anyone nor praise them anywhere etc. and move on.
So first things first:
I mentioned further up that peakseedsBC has comparably inexpensive C99 seeds. I haven't popped them yet and there is not much information on them to find.
They are also not officially listed on peakseedsBC's website (Mike has said that he really has to update the website but keeps forgetting/pushing that back). If you mail him, he will offer them to you and answer any and all questions you may have. Mike is just awesome like that.
The price will range from 2-3 bucks per seed, depending on your business savvy, size of your order etc. etc.
If the story of their ancestry can be believed, then peakseedsBC's C99 comes from Frostbrothers C99 which comes from Brother's Grimm C99.
So it SHOULD be good. But I only have Mike's words on that so far and the one or two people I spoke to who grew this variety.
They were all convinced that it is great.
Now on to the "risk my account" section:
Seedbay and Boutique are sponsoring this forum and as such we should support and not badmouth them.
However...
In my quest for BOG seeds in Europe, I spoke with them and was told they have some packs lying around and could get me some.
I had previously spoken with BOG directly however and he could not remember when they last ordered beans from him, so he could not imagine how old these beans must be.
When I asked them about this, I didn't get a response...
Long story short: If you buy from the Bay or Bou, make sure you know exactly what you are buying and how old the beans are.
I am not saying all their stock is old as hell, I know for a fact that this is not true as they also carry some new varieties that just can't be old.
But they do carry a good amount of stock that is very, very old.
See Rez's gear...
They do however usually discount the seeds that have been stored longer. The question is if the price is fair after the discount.
The 100 SSSDH seed packs from Reservoir Seeds for example are perceived by many to be a great offer because the price is heavily discounted but they are at least 5 years old and thusly don't germ so great.
What I am saying is basically this:
If you buy seeds from the Bay/Bou that are potentially quite old, be aware of it and consider it in your purchasing decision.
I mean the C99 bx beans from Mosca have been out of production for a strong minute, haven't they? I am not aware that Mosca is producing fresh C99 bx seeds...
So if you know this and buy them, you gotta prepare yourself for potentially old seedstock and difficulties germing it. Just how it is ...
The next thing is that if you don't buy from the breeder directly, your contact person is the seedvendor, not the breeder directly. So if you believe to be entitled to a replacement, you would have to contact your vendor.
Then it depends on how the vendor reacts and sees things...
They might say "well obviously these beans were old, that's why they are discounted so heavily, sorry no replacement" and I would say they have a legitimate reason for that stance.
But they might just as well value customer satisfaction and their reputation so highly that they will give you at least some form of replacement.
Can't really say but my impression of the Bou/Bay is that they might sometimes take their sweet time but they usually come through and have good rapport with most who buy from them.
So I would suggest contacting them. If I am not mistaken the normal way around here would be to send a PM to oldpink but as you don't have the 50 posts required for PMs yet, I suppose you would have to write an email to the bou/bay and see what happens.
My advice is to be friendly and not too demanding. The way I see it (from the little information I have), you bought some old beans (possibly not being aware how old they were) and they didn't germ well. The beans were however already discounted so ....
I think it would be a standup move to offer you replacements but I wouldn't say they are obliged to do so in any way. If they do, it would be "good business" or high value on customer satisfaction. If not, I would say you really can't complain too much although I understand how it sucks for you.
But the normal result would just be that you don't recommend Mosca, Bou/bay to anyone nor praise them anywhere etc. and move on.
militia420
Active member
Thank you for giving me this information. I may put an order with him when I can save up enough money from gifts from family.
I thought I knew what I was getting by their sites advertisement. I didn't realize they might be sitting on very old seeds until you pointed it out and I looked around this site further to confirm what you said. From a logical perspective I think every one would benefit if there was a field on each seed page indicating when they obtained the seeds. Most of us understand the germination drop off over time, even if refrigerated. If I knew their c99 f1s were a few years old, possibly from 2008-09 from what I saw on this site, I wouldn't have bothered. I'm sitting on my own line of c99 f2s from a 2009 grow. Most won't germinate. I had some germinate last year but peter out. This was before I had better lights, temperatures, and had compiled recommended ingredients for pre-soaks of old seeds. I'm actually going to go ahead and try to pop the rest of these old seeds. I have Sweet Tooth #3 F1s that are from ~2002 and their shells are in better shape than the Mosca c99 f1s I got. And I kept my seeds in the vegetable drawer, with dessicants for ~5 years, the remaining years were just in a air tight jar with oxygen absorbers and dissicants.
Any way, I don't have much confidence in sprouting most of my old seeds which is why I was gleeful to find Mosca's seeds. The reviews I saw on this site literally described the same observations I've seen with my own line. There's the 3 main pheno's, 1 has a longer solid cola, 1 has a grapefruit smell, 1 is like tropical punch. The only thing that was surprising was that many people seemed to not get the tropical punch or grapefruit odors. I never saw those traits go away across all the seeds I popped. Those traits seem very solid from my experience. Any way this is a tangent.
I'll absolutely do more research on the potential age, even email them about it before I order again. On further thought, it would be superb for the commercial and grow community if we had some statistical analyses indicating the typical rates of germination based upon years. If we had this information, seed sellers could change their prices and selling options so customers are happy. Every one wins, etc.[/quote]
Understood. I'll contact them. Of the last 4 Mosca c99 f1s I started, one never popped, another just stalled and dried up. One has sprouted and I helped it out of the seed. The pre grow leaves are very light green. I don't have any confidence in this one. The last is still in the seed. I'll help it out soon so it doesn't stall and die sooner. I don't expect any thing from this batch really. They are clearly old and lacking vitality. It'd be great if they were discounted but I paid full price $70 on them. I'll contact them. Demands won't get me any where. They might appreciate my situation, being indigent and medical plus the age of the seeds (when did Mosca do these c99 f1s any way? It seems like 08 or 09 from what I've seen in posts??)
If they offer replacements I'll be sure to post about it here to make sure others know and can appreciate their efforts for customer satisfaction.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I think you are going about it the right way.
You weren't ripped off but important information was not communicated with you on their own initiative and you weren't aware of it so you didn't ask.
A frustrating situation but you are looking at it the right way:
Don't demand. Contact them and see if they are sympathetic to your situation and take it from there.
I am sure people will appreciate if you keep us updated on your situation.
A last advice I could give is using germination aids on the remaining older seeds.
Certain methods exist, like using sandpaper to thin the shell of the seed where the taproot will come out or using giberillic acid during the germination.
Just search for "germing old seeds" or something similar here on the board and/or google and you will find some methods that have been proven to improve germination success.
You could try these methods on the remaining beans as to not have a total loss or disappointment. Might still find a few gems in those seeds then, no matter if they offer a replacement or not.
Best of luck to you!
You weren't ripped off but important information was not communicated with you on their own initiative and you weren't aware of it so you didn't ask.
A frustrating situation but you are looking at it the right way:
Don't demand. Contact them and see if they are sympathetic to your situation and take it from there.
I am sure people will appreciate if you keep us updated on your situation.
A last advice I could give is using germination aids on the remaining older seeds.
Certain methods exist, like using sandpaper to thin the shell of the seed where the taproot will come out or using giberillic acid during the germination.
Just search for "germing old seeds" or something similar here on the board and/or google and you will find some methods that have been proven to improve germination success.
You could try these methods on the remaining beans as to not have a total loss or disappointment. Might still find a few gems in those seeds then, no matter if they offer a replacement or not.
Best of luck to you!
militia420
Active member
I was already implementing those techniques from the word go. On relevant threads it didn't take much to convince me that giving seeds certain nutrients will jump start even healthy seeds. There's some good studies published on using coconut water to improve germination rates too. So using simple water to soak them is a thing of the past for me.
My notes:
The one thing I plan on trying to add in with my personal c99 line that just aren't making it past initial tap roots popping is the soaking in a pressurized environment. I read about other people doing this and I think it might help.
I'm waiting to hear back from seed bay via email regarding the mosca seeds.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
That's pretty much all of the techniques I heard of as well. Nothing that comes to mind you might have skipped.
So if you already used those then yeah, contacting them is the last best effort to salvage the situation.
Btw. I heard that PMing oldpink and crew works better than emailing. Not sure if they are only contacts for the Bou or also the Bay though.
Best of luck mate!
So if you already used those then yeah, contacting them is the last best effort to salvage the situation.
Btw. I heard that PMing oldpink and crew works better than emailing. Not sure if they are only contacts for the Bou or also the Bay though.
Best of luck mate!
militia420
Active member
Are these recently purchased C99 BX1 seeds from seedbay? I'm thinking of going with those since the MOS C99 F1s I got turned out to be non-viable and old. Please respond as I'm desperately trying to get an idea of whether I can go with those seeds or not. If any one else has recently ordered these seeds could you please comment on viability?
oldirtybastard
Member
Has anyone grown out Blue Fin?
Legal_Freedom
New member
Not sure what to think after reading through this entire thread for the last 2 hours. I had to take a break from growing for awhile. Mosca was very active on the boards at the time, but had not really been a vendor. After finding my way back to growing (minus extra baggage in 1 ex wife) and I saw that Mosca had started his own vending. Little did I know it would be so short lived. He was always a friendly Knowledgable guy when I was on the boards before, and really seemed to have the knack. I recently decided to buy some of his gear, and have been excited about it. He was even named breeder of the month THIS month on Seeds Here Now. Introducing his "new" Pink line. am I being bamboozled here? Did I just buy old seed stock?
FireIn.TheSky
Active member
Im pretty sure Mosca is still active in seed making and selling to retailers he just does not participate in forums anymore. Really I can see why, so many people complain, bitch about germination, herms, etc.. some may be true but there is a lot of opportunistic scammers out there. Then you have other breeders trying to hack your ideas, and sell them before you do.
This place used to be very active with breeders, now if you notice many have either left or don't post at all. Now that things are more medical/legal than ever it seems more and more people keep quiet. When things were more illegal there was such a free flow of knowledge and ideas, now the wrong people are trying to capitalize on things, it makes the true growers go back to the underground.
This place used to be very active with breeders, now if you notice many have either left or don't post at all. Now that things are more medical/legal than ever it seems more and more people keep quiet. When things were more illegal there was such a free flow of knowledge and ideas, now the wrong people are trying to capitalize on things, it makes the true growers go back to the underground.
D
Dioni
I have a Bluefin finishing up this week...smells like fresh blueberry muffin and looks about 5+ oz. dry with big rock hard buds from an un topped plant in 5 gal smart part 60 day veg from seed.
D
Dioni
I popped one c99 bx1 seed, which was actually a bx further, so bx2 or f1 of two bx1s.
The plant is a test subject, taking much light and almost zero nutrients in a 0,1l pot. Silly, i know.
But she developed a nice resinous cola, smells very fruity bubblegum style and also decently fat for a starved plant.
She's at around 50 days now and will get chopped probably this week.
The plant is a test subject, taking much light and almost zero nutrients in a 0,1l pot. Silly, i know.
But she developed a nice resinous cola, smells very fruity bubblegum style and also decently fat for a starved plant.
She's at around 50 days now and will get chopped probably this week.
