MM's Info on Myco

[milkyjoe]

I do a root drench that includes myko. Just a bucket of water with stuff loaded into it, dip the cube (or whatever) which allows for direct contact with the roots and also soaks into the cube.

Works like a charm. Fuzzy new root growth by the day after transplanting...can't say the myko is active that fast but other stuff is and it allows the myko direct contact with the roots.

 

[h.h.]

Ordered this from Sustainable Agriculture Technologies.
Claimed 100,000 propagules/pound.
Glomus intraradicees, G Mosseae, G Aggregatun,G Etunicatum
I can only guess at the ratios. They are not listed in alphabetical order, so I'm taking it that they are listed either by spore count or by weight.
I'm putting seed in the ground today, not mj, other stuff. Shipment is 7 days away...
Just figured the answer. Companion plants.

 

[Microbeman]

Ordered this from Sustainable Agriculture Technologies.
Claimed 100,000 propagules/pound.
Glomus intraradicees, G Mosseae, G Aggregatun,G Etunicatum
I can only guess at the ratios. They are not listed in alphabetical order, so I'm taking it that they are listed either by spore count or by weight.
I'm putting seed in the ground today, not mj, other stuff. Shipment is 7 days away...
Just figured the answer. Companion plants.

220 spores/gram. Good.

 

[h.h.]

220 spores/gram. Good.

Canceled that order.
Found Glomus intraradice (1,000spores/gram) and Glomus Mosseae (800 spores/gram) sold separately on Ebay. More money per pound/gram but if you figure it per spore, it is cheaper.

 

[Microbeman]

Canceled that order.
Found Glomus intraradice (1,000spores/gram) and Glomus Mosseae (800 spores/gram) sold separately on Ebay. More money per pound/gram but if you figure it per spore, it is cheaper.

Do you have a link? I know cap said he had 400/g in his mix (AFAIR)

 

[Sir D]

Read read read ah another one to read! Well when it's good it's good thanks guys for putting it together good read and excellent info.

 

[h.h.]

Do you have a link? I know cap said he had 400/g in his mix (AFAIR)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mycorrhizae...0875898?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item232c86a0fa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mycorrhizae...ce-59-99-/161098513376?_trksid=p2047675.l4066

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...43818,VSRPtargetId:121922389,VSRPcmpt:primary

 

[MileHighGuy]

You don't need to ship high spore count stuff from Isreal. We have unique access to the roots compared to farmers and can afford to directly apply to the rootzone. It only takes a few spores to colonize and there are many affordable products that are available without international shipping getting involved. One supplier in Canada has straight Intraradices and you could probably get bulk for cheap with a little research.

This is a good read, and I'm sure it's already been mentioned.

The Instant Expert Guide to Mycorrhiza
The Connection for Functional Ecosystems
Ted St. John, Ph.D.

Here is some of the info on diversity

Consider a Mixture of Mycorrhizal Fungi
Several scientific studies have concluded that growth responses were improved with mixtures of fungi rather than single species. However, none of these studies has included a "wonder fungus" of the type sometimes isolated in large-scale screening projects. G. intraradices has turned up as a "wonder fungus" in several surveys, and field experience so far has shown it to be equal or superior to mixtures of other fungi. There is a concern that less effective fungi could dilute the propagules of the fungus that works best, perhaps decreasing its effectiveness. Even so, many researchers believe that mixtures of fungal species are preferable.

Plant diversity depends to some extent upon fungal species diversity.
There may be a benefit to some rare plant species of having particular fungi that grow at the right time of year or produce some other specific effect. Until we know exactly how the effects are produced, the only way to include such fungi would be in quality topsoil from the native habitat of the rare plant species. What is very clear, from every study that has done the tests, is that inoculation is greatly superior to no inoculation, with differences between fungal species forming a secondary effect.

The pattern has been that high quality commercial inoculum allows a
diversity of plant species to become established, and a diversity of
fungi from nearby undisturbed land moves onto the site in subsequent months. Neither scientific nor commercial experience has sufficiently precise information to know which fungi provide the widest range of benefits, or may be required for particular rare plant species. If native topsoil is not available, the best strategy at this point is make sure a diversity of plant species succeed and are available to propagate more fungal species as they find their way onto the site.

Another thing to Consider is adding a living mulch that will also associate with mycorrhizae and further encourage and active and thriving network.

Lately since using a more diverse living mulch I've seen a boom in fungal activity on the surface and that is encouraging to me.

One more consideration, most raw organic amendments and organic compost can be toxic to Mycorrhizae and this is one of the larger reasons that I attribute to the success in no-till. It seems that many indoor growers are experiencing better results long after mixing up a fresh batch of soil and things seem to get better as time goes on. I tend to think that the life of the soil is finally getting a chance to develop once the soil get's balanced and that is when adding myco has the highest potential for success.

Determine Whether Your Soil is Toxic to Mycorrhizal
Fungi

Mine spoils are often toxic because of processing or because of the
sometimes toxic nature of the ores that contain mineral resources. In most cases toxicity will have been determined as an early step in the remediation process, and detailed analyses will be available. A bioassay with radish seedlings (radish is a non-host) grown in representative soil samples will indicate whether the medium is suitable for plant growth. If it is suitable for plants, it is possible but less likely that there are factors that are toxic for spore germination or root colonization by mycorrhizal fungi. In examining a soil analysis, look for high concentrations of Na, Cl, B, Cd, Zn, and Mn. Any of these have been shown to interfere with colonization or may reasonably be suspected of doing so. Look also for extreme pH values. Soils in a more acid range may have toxic levels of aluminum ions.

If the soil is receiving organic amendments consider their possible
effects on mycorrhizal colonization. Many forms of peat are tolerated only as a low proportion of the mix. Very raw compost materials can sometimes be inhibitory, although mature compost and most humic materials can be neutral or even stimulatory to fungal growth.

It is possible for artificial media to be so low in some nutrient ions
that colonization is inhibited. I know of no example of this in a natural temperate zone soil, but it happens in subgrade or spoil material.

 

[milkyjoe]

It is the soluble P that is toxic (or at least shuts it down, maybe dormant) to mycos...right? I am finding it difficult to find compost that is not really high in P possibly because of where I live. I wonder if it is like that other places.

 

[h.h.]

A ship can be pretty efficient compared to a truck. I would prefer local.
I just wanted some fair size samples.. These are the two MM suggests for MJ, so I'll start out with them. Few companies that I found in my limited research even offered small quantities for sell and then only mixtures.

 

[MileHighGuy]

It is the soluble P that is toxic (or at least shuts it down, maybe dormant) to mycos...right? I am finding it difficult to find compost that is not really high in P possibly because of where I live. I wonder if it is like that other places.

Most composts are high in P and K... and it does depend on the input material. Many of the High Brix Gardeners avoid heavy use of compost because of this and claim that the excess P will mess with calcium etc.

I've read compost reports from reputable companies with PH near 9.0 and Salts off the charts... people keep buying the stuff too.

Compost is important... but it doesn't mean that everyone makes a good finished product, especially in bulk.

 

[milkyjoe]

Humus is important. I am starting to wonder whether compost is or not. But no doubt someone has some great compost somewhere. I am becoming of the opinion with our relatively small amounts of soil just chuck some leonardite in to take care of the humus part.

I would also be curious to see the EC of a tea made with one of these high salt composts...gotta go straight into the tea, that is the definition of soluble.

 

[jaded1]

I was using that same myko off ebay but have stopped using it.No matter how little n and p i put in the soil most plants would show some N toxicity and would always finish far too green for my liking.I think part of my prob was putting the same amount in that i would of the stuff with low spore counts.

 

[h.h.]

Compost increases aggregation, adds texture along with the ability to hold plant available water. Soil carbon is increased. It will also hold more water without compaction.


I should do a full report but I'm lazy.
Soil Organic Carbon: The Value to Soil PropertiesJournal of Soil and Water Conservationv65#5, Sept. Oct. 2013

Thanks Jaded1.
I don't know if spore count is really that critical. Growth is going to depend on root exudes. there should be some point of equilibrium where there's no more food. Maybe. Perhaps the plant depends on other fungi to act as handlers to keep the myco under control.
What you say sounds logical, I just never heard of it. Then sometimes, they just don't tell you. IOW I don't have the foggiest.
I'll find out. This is all play. It won't be the first plant I've underfed, overfed, killed. You don't know what you're doing until you've fucked a few up.
That's the good thing about being legal, quasi legal. I've always been legal in my mind anyway, but making a long story longer...It don't matter anymore. I'm not stressed over a couple of plants. There's plenty in the pantry and I can always borrow a cup from the neighbor.
Thanks for pitching in. It's something I hadn't thought of.


Something some may be interested in.
http://www.jswconline.org/
I think it's $110 to join. Not sure. Pops was in from day 1 and they never stopped sending them.

 

[Microbeman]

Good score. Thank you!

Be careful with that info from Ted St. John. I read it several years ago and found some misinformation.

 

[h.h.]

What do you mean? I could become an instant expert.
http://green-diamond-biological.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Mycorrhiza-Primer.pdf

Note the drawing of the big plant and the little plant. The drawing of the big plant is bigger while the drawing of the smaller plant is smaller.

 

[milkyjoe]

You have graduated grasshopper