Miracle Grow... What ratios/ How much/ When

[twisztdauthorit]

Hey im still a newbie at growing so im asking for some help.

I have 5 plants that are about 3 weeks old and 4 plants that are about 1 week old.


5 of them got poisoned with a little spa ph down not to bad bad you can tell cuz of the yellowing in the lower leaves.



I recently picked up
2 miracle grow containers:

1- tomato food 18-18-21
2- azalea food 30-10-10

I put a little less than 1 teaspoon of each into seperate 1 gallon containers of distilled water. Is that toomuch or too little.

which should i used to water which plants and how often should i use it?

pics:

 

[Dignan]

Here's what I'd use...

Miracle Grow tomato 18-18-21: about no teaspoons per gallon.
Miracle Grow azalea 30-10-10: same amount. None.

(I'm just playing with ya... but this is the organic soil forum. I bet you'd get a lot of helpful answers in the general forum or the soil forum.)

Good luck!

Dignan

 

[East Valley]

what does it say on the box?? it doesn't come with directions? i would just follow those, miracle grow is fine. npk is npk wherever u find it.

 

[twisztdauthorit]

it comes with directions... but some books say use 1/8th strength others say 1/4th some people say use 1/2 strength...

id also like to know how often i should water and which ones i should use or a mix.

 

[twisztdauthorit]

mod: can delete this thread i have reposted it in Indoor grows - soil forum

 

[BurnOne]

BLASPHEMY!!!

 

[Dignan]

LOL

 

[ninfan77]

1 teaspoon per gallon of water for the first few waterings if your plants are small.
Give plants 1 gallon and under, 1/4 cup of the Mg water.

If they show curling/nute burn, flush, and give less.

Larger plants, can take 1 cup of MG water (5 gallon size).

Also, when they are bigger, 2 teaspoon per gallon is fine as well. Make sure you FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH the last couple weeks of flowering.

 

[SensimillaWolf]

I wish I had pictures of my first grow... miracle grow chems are waaaay too powerful for our little friends, and the people I've seen use them "successfully" start by using 1/16 (!!!!!) of the recommended dose and slowly work up to 1/2.

I'm not exaggerating when I say this... my first harvest smelled and tasted just like the liquid MG I used to feed it. Obviously my fault for not flushing effectively, but it provided the motivation to go organic.

 

[HeadyPete]

Here's my suggestion:

How much: None!

When: Never!

I would not use that chemmy crap on any plant I will consume.

There are so many natural and organic nutes out now that it is just crazy to use that crap.

Not to mention the environmentally harmful practices it takes to produce that stuff. It may even be slightly radioactive, as some chem ferts are.

Go to the grow shop and talk to someone about organics, or do some more research here.

Better tasting, smelling and better for you.

 

[alphacat]

Miracle Gro - and many other chem nutes - do indeed contain radioactive ingredients. In fact, when Miracle Gro was first released onto the market in the 50's (before people fully understood the long term buildup/toxicity issues), they used to advertise about their proprietary blend of stuff including 'radioactive isotopes'. When the public started getting wiser about the issue they discreetly dropped the isotope reference, but not the actual compounds.

This article's been re-posted here a few times - and some folks take exception to it various grounds, like the fact that one of the scientists cited has his own line of nutes - but it's better to know and make your own decision than remain ignorant and never have the option.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Radioactive buds?

New study shows that many fertilizers are radioactive, producing potentially harmful pot.

By David Malmo-Levine and Dana Larsen


A recent study shows that many commonly used fertilizers are high in radioactive elements. The study was performed by Dr Paul Hornby, who holds a master’s degree in biochemistry and a PhD in human pathology from the University of British Columbia.

The study analyzed 25 different types of fertilizers, eight “organic” varieties and 17 “chemical” fertilizers. The results showed that the chemical fertilizers emitted on average five times the radiation of the organic group.

There are different ways of measuring radioactivity. The table shows the “counts per minute” (CPM) of radiation detected in each sample. The average for the organic fertilizers was 140, while the chemical fertilizers had an average radiation count of 675, an almost five-fold increase.

The lowest radiation was found in the organic blood meal fertilizers, which emitted only background radiation - the normal low radiation found in most objects. On the other end of the spectrum was the 5-20-20 berry food, with a radiation level about 24 times higher than background.

These levels of radiation don’t pose a danger through simply being around bags of fertilizer. However, cannabis and other plants are known to uptake radioactive elements from their growing medium. Radiation exposure is accumulative, so that repeated inhalation would present an increasing health risk.

Radiation also accumulates in the soil. Farmers who grow chemical-fed tobacco soon face soil vitality-loss, forcing them to use more and more chemical fertilizer every year to maintain the same level of productivity. That means that tobacco land gets more and more radioactive every year.

Numerous studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine and other health, science and radiation journals have indicated that it is the radioactive elements in tobacco which lead to lung cancer (CC#35, Radioactive tobacco). Tobacco is typically fed with high-phosphate, chemical fertilizers, including heavy foliar spraying. All of these factors would produce a high-level of radioactive elements in the tobacco leaf.

Although further research is needed, this study does point the way to some simple harm-reduction techniques for pot growers. Many growers believe that using organic fertilizers produces a tastier, higher-quality bud. This study indicates that they could also be producing a less harmful product than that produced with many chemical fertilizers.

Although cannabis and cannabinoids are non-toxic, radiation is a major cause of cancer. Further research is clearly needed, but it seems likely that the best way to keep your buds as safe and harmless as possible is to use non-chemical, organic fertilizers, to eliminate any potential radioactivity getting into your stash, and your lungs.

· Dr Paul Hornby is available for testing of fertilizers and can also test marijuana for cannabinoid profiles: [email protected]


Fertilizer Type............................................Radioactivity score

Evergro Specialty Fertilizer..........................90
Blood Meal 12-0-0

Green Valley....................................................96
Blood Meal Fertilizer
12-0-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer.........................102
Bloom-A-Long
0-12-0

SeaSpray Organic Fertilizer..........................125
0.5-1.0-0.5

Green Valley Blood and Bone..........................154
Meal Fertilizer
7-11-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer..........................160
4-2-3

Homestead 100% Organic................................174
Bone Meal
4-14-0

DML Bird Guano...............................................178
NPK unknown

-----------------------------
Those above are all organic.
Those below are all synthetic.
-----------------------------


Miracid Soil Acidifier...................................248
Plant Food
30-10-10

Shultz All Purpose Plant Food.......................258
10-15-10

Miracle-Gro For Roses...................................285
18-24-16

Green Valley....................................................326
Rhododendron and Azalea Food
10-8-6

Shultz African Violet Plus...................................393
8-14-9

General Hydroponics..............................................400
Flora Grow
2-1-6

Miracle-Gro Water Soluble..................................409
Plant Food
15-30-15

Greenleaf Evergreen...............................................437
Tree and Hedge Feeder
13-6-7

Stern's Miracle-Gro..............................................538
For Tomatoes
18-18-21

Miracle-Gro...........................................................547
Plant Food Engrais
15-30-15

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................672
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................693
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Shultz-Instant.............................................................740
Orchid Plant Food
19-31-17

Shultz Tomato Plus....................................................874
18-19-30

Evergro Fruit Tree....................................................1037
and Berry Food
4-20-20

Osmocote....................................................................2021
Time Release Fertilizer
18-6-12

Green Valley Berry Food...........................................2384
5-20-20

 

[twisztdauthorit]

wow those are some interesting facts. What if i where to use miracle grow throughout vegging and then switched to a safer fert before i switch to flower?

 

[Blackvelvet]

1/4 teaspoon tomato formula per gallon on seedlings. 1/2 teaspoon for regular growing applied with every watering. Azaleas like really acidic soil so that formula will probably drop the ph really low. Not good for mj unless ph is high and you need to lower it. Both formulas lack calcium, magnesium, and sulfur.

You need to adjust the ph of your fert water after mixing and also test ph in your soil mix. So, you at least need some ph test strips in the aquarium section of a petstore or a brew your own beer/wine store. Ph test strip range 4-7 is ok. Better a narrower range around 6.

How to test soil ph: After watering/ferting till runoff, wait 30 minutes. Apply a small amount of distilled water to the pot surface till 1 or 2 ounces of runoff occurs. Catch this on a saucer. Test this ph. If after watering/ferting and waiting 30 minutes you can tilt the pot and get some liquid out, you can test that instead.

You would use powdered/pulverized not pelletized dolomite lime to provide calcium and magnesium. You can only use this if your ph is low. Adding lime when the soil ph is ok will cause problems.

If ph is low, you can surface apply the lime at 1 1/5 teaspoon per gallon of soil mix. Water in.

If ph is ok or high, you can add cal mag to your fert by using 1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum and epsom salts per gallon of water along with the regular fert. Calcium nitrate could be used instead of gypsum at the same rate. Calcium chloride sold under names like tomato blossom end rot stopper could be used instead of gypsum. It will take the % ca and net weight of the bottle to give you a rate of 60 ppm ca. Calcium chloride and calcium nitrate are much easier to disolve than gypsum. Easily disolvable gypsum you can find at brew your own beer/wine stores.

Using just dolomite lime does not provide sulfur. (actually needed in large quantities) You can mix gypsum into the soil at planting at 3/4 teaspoon per gallon of mix to provide this or in your case, you might add 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts occassionally in the water (1 gallon) to provide sulfur along with your surface applied lime.

Suitable acids if you need to lower water ph are: hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric, and phosphoric. Check your spa ph down label...it actually may be ok to use. Vinegar is safe to use but requires more than a strong acid.

Just to warn you...Main problem with mg plant food is that it contains mostly ammonia or urea nitrogen. This can be toxic to plants. You should not have more than 50% of your nitrogen ammonia or urea when growing in potting soil. The rest would be nitrate nitrogen. I suggest only using the mg plant food till you find something better soon. Check fert labels. Someone mentioned finding 20-10-20 at homedepot or lowes that was high in nitrate nitrogen and less ammonia/urea. Also be sure it has all 6 micros: iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, and molybdenum.

Good luck!


.

 

[alphacat]

wow those are some interesting facts. What if i where to use miracle grow throughout vegging and then switched to a safer fert before i switch to flower?

It's already too late, essentially: the plant will have absorbed the radioactivity to some degree. Radioactivity doesn't just go away: it accumulates.

Pure Blend Pro is my personal fave, but there's lots of options. A lot of people use Miracle Gro just because it's cheap and readily available, but remember - G.I.G.O. - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

 

[twisztdauthorit]

Thanks guys, those replies were beyond my expectations and i am greatly appreciative.
i will probably give the rest of mg to my mom and go buy some real stuff!

 

[HeadyPete]

That's the spirit. Insist on nothing but the best for your percy stash!

I just picked up the BioBizz value pack consisting of BioGrow and Bloom, TopMax for flowering, and PreMix additive that goes in with your grow medium. (Mine is Coir, perlite, worm casting, dolomite lime and premix). Mmmmm...... all organic goodness. I can't even smoke chemmy bud anymore, especially cuz it's never really flushed well enough.

This batch needs to be mixed and moistened, and turned often at least 2 weeks before use to get the biological action started, so the nutes can become available for plants to use through natural processes. Plus the lime needs time to break down before it works.

This is the whole nute regime from beginning to end and I will try it to determine if anything else is required, but I suspect it isn't and would just be a waste of money.

 

[sirharrynuggz]

Dr. Paul Hornby?! In BC?! Who does research on fertilizers, and Cannabis?! Is that the Dr. Hornby, of Advanced Nutrients fame?

 

[alphacat]

One & the same.

 

[sirharrynuggz]

So, do you use his products? Do you like/recommend them? I just got some Big Bud today, and the directions are kind of vague. How often should I give them this stuff? It only says to mix 0.5 grams per liter, which will raise the PPM's by approximately 300. But doesn't say when in the cycle to add, or how often.

 

[Guest]

Miracle Gro - and many other chem nutes - do indeed contain radioactive ingredients. In fact, when Miracle Gro was first released onto the market in the 50's (before people fully understood the long term buildup/toxicity issues), they used to advertise about their proprietary blend of stuff including 'radioactive isotopes'. When the public started getting wiser about the issue they discreetly dropped the isotope reference, but not the actual compounds.

This article's been re-posted here a few times - and some folks take exception to it various grounds, like the fact that one of the scientists cited has his own line of nutes - but it's better to know and make your own decision than remain ignorant and never have the option.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Radioactive buds?

New study shows that many fertilizers are radioactive, producing potentially harmful pot.

By David Malmo-Levine and Dana Larsen


A recent study shows that many commonly used fertilizers are high in radioactive elements. The study was performed by Dr Paul Hornby, who holds a master’s degree in biochemistry and a PhD in human pathology from the University of British Columbia.

The study analyzed 25 different types of fertilizers, eight “organic” varieties and 17 “chemical” fertilizers. The results showed that the chemical fertilizers emitted on average five times the radiation of the organic group.

There are different ways of measuring radioactivity. The table shows the “counts per minute” (CPM) of radiation detected in each sample. The average for the organic fertilizers was 140, while the chemical fertilizers had an average radiation count of 675, an almost five-fold increase.

The lowest radiation was found in the organic blood meal fertilizers, which emitted only background radiation - the normal low radiation found in most objects. On the other end of the spectrum was the 5-20-20 berry food, with a radiation level about 24 times higher than background.

These levels of radiation don’t pose a danger through simply being around bags of fertilizer. However, cannabis and other plants are known to uptake radioactive elements from their growing medium. Radiation exposure is accumulative, so that repeated inhalation would present an increasing health risk.

Radiation also accumulates in the soil. Farmers who grow chemical-fed tobacco soon face soil vitality-loss, forcing them to use more and more chemical fertilizer every year to maintain the same level of productivity. That means that tobacco land gets more and more radioactive every year.

Numerous studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine and other health, science and radiation journals have indicated that it is the radioactive elements in tobacco which lead to lung cancer (CC#35, Radioactive tobacco). Tobacco is typically fed with high-phosphate, chemical fertilizers, including heavy foliar spraying. All of these factors would produce a high-level of radioactive elements in the tobacco leaf.

Although further research is needed, this study does point the way to some simple harm-reduction techniques for pot growers. Many growers believe that using organic fertilizers produces a tastier, higher-quality bud. This study indicates that they could also be producing a less harmful product than that produced with many chemical fertilizers.

Although cannabis and cannabinoids are non-toxic, radiation is a major cause of cancer. Further research is clearly needed, but it seems likely that the best way to keep your buds as safe and harmless as possible is to use non-chemical, organic fertilizers, to eliminate any potential radioactivity getting into your stash, and your lungs.

· Dr Paul Hornby is available for testing of fertilizers and can also test marijuana for cannabinoid profiles: [email protected]


Fertilizer Type............................................Radioactivity score

Evergro Specialty Fertilizer..........................90
Blood Meal 12-0-0

Green Valley....................................................96
Blood Meal Fertilizer
12-0-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer.........................102
Bloom-A-Long
0-12-0

SeaSpray Organic Fertilizer..........................125
0.5-1.0-0.5

Green Valley Blood and Bone..........................154
Meal Fertilizer
7-11-0

RainGrow Organic Fertilizer..........................160
4-2-3

Homestead 100% Organic................................174
Bone Meal
4-14-0

DML Bird Guano...............................................178
NPK unknown

-----------------------------
Those above are all organic.
Those below are all synthetic.
-----------------------------


Miracid Soil Acidifier...................................248
Plant Food
30-10-10

Shultz All Purpose Plant Food.......................258
10-15-10

Miracle-Gro For Roses...................................285
18-24-16

Green Valley....................................................326
Rhododendron and Azalea Food
10-8-6

Shultz African Violet Plus...................................393
8-14-9

General Hydroponics..............................................400
Flora Grow
2-1-6

Miracle-Gro Water Soluble..................................409
Plant Food
15-30-15

Greenleaf Evergreen...............................................437
Tree and Hedge Feeder
13-6-7

Stern's Miracle-Gro..............................................538
For Tomatoes
18-18-21

Miracle-Gro...........................................................547
Plant Food Engrais
15-30-15

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................672
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Greenleaf Shur Gro....................................................693
Soluble Plant Food
20-20-20

Shultz-Instant.............................................................740
Orchid Plant Food
19-31-17

Shultz Tomato Plus....................................................874
18-19-30

Evergro Fruit Tree....................................................1037
and Berry Food
4-20-20

Osmocote....................................................................2021
Time Release Fertilizer
18-6-12

Green Valley Berry Food...........................................2384
5-20-20

========================================================

This is really crappy data.....

the organic stuff are partial ferts.... few contain npk and the micros....

so its like comparing apples and oranges....

but if you look at the bottom of the list you will find osmocote.....

that contains calcium phosphate as the phosphorus source....

calcium phosphate has been implicated in the tobacco industry as the possible cause of at least some of the lung cancer deaths.....

You should not smoke anything with calcium phosphate.......

I cant tell you how many of those contain that phos source.....


The study analyzed 25 different types of fertilizers, eight “organic” varieties and 17 “chemical” fertilizers. The results showed that the chemical fertilizers emitted on average five times the radiation of the organic group.

Sounds to me like the old boy wants to sell you something.....

WHat old paul could have done is taken various organic ferts and made something complete then those numbers would make some sense....

as it is .... its pretty close to worthless.....


I notice that the organics show only a couple with potassium....and all the synthetics are fairly potassium complete....

last I checked cannabis likes potassium.... a lot.....

I originally read this back on overgrow....

and my first impression I came away with still sticks with me....

that old paul is a crook.......