diseasedmind
Active member
yes It was just middle unit running, I will try to run all 3 on heat and see what happens. It was installed by a local heating and cooling company.
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Minisplit troubleshooting
- Thread starter diseasedmind
- Start date
yes It was just middle unit running, I will try to run all 3 on heat and see what happens. It was installed by a local heating and cooling company.
diseasedmind
Active member
@ r2k, It is Model Kwil09-h2 and I had it installed about 2 years ago. I will check out those service manuals.
diseasedmind
Active member
Ok going to try to have a technician come over and charge the system. Can he do this from outside? What info will he need? I am moving in less than 6 months so if it has a leak I don't really care as long as it lasts that long. If that doesn't fix it I guess I am going to get some in line fans and have to run the rooms not sealed.
It is charged from the outside however he will probably want to run the units and check temps. You can always tell him no.
diseasedmind
Active member
r2k
Member
Here is a product selection guide that also serves as a marketing tool. It mentions your unit: http://www.klimaire.com/media/klimaire_product_pdfs/5050db965a1ac_-_KSIMmulti.pdf
I kind of suspect that there are no leaks of freon. If there was, all three circuits would fail and you would get no cooling at all. There is only one cavity of freon inside, so a leak in any part will bleed the whole system.
Did this system work for a while, or has it always been a problem? Is there anything you changed or replaced at the time it failed?
The freon recharging valves are usually (at least, on my units) right at the point where the freon hoses go into the compressor housing. There is a coupling on each hose and can be used to measure the high side and low side pressures. For the freon I had added, the technician had a chart made specifically for my compressor. If you take the covers off your compressor, you might find an envelope of paperwork that contains what you want. The charts are graphs that show expected pressure ranges if you know the outdoor temperature and humidity. Depending on the pressure, you know if there is enough freon or not. I seriously doubt there will ever be too much freon in the system, but it could happen. If low, the gauge harness the technician had also had a third hose to connect to a freon tank he brought.
I kind of suspect other suggestions in this thread are correct and there is a faulty valve in the path for your freezing unit. The only failure mode I can think of is that the faulty valve is not fully open. You mentioned that you can run this in heating mode, which means that valves need to be switched over to convert the system. Could one of those valves not be fully switched? If I had to guess, I would say you are starving the high pressure side of your evaporator coils because of a constricted opening.
I'm not sure if it is possible, but what are the chances that you got some water in the lines? Water can freeze around gas expansion points and choke off the flow. It's tough to know if that is the cause unless you purge the lines with a vacuum pump. If you use your hand to feel along the lines of the freezing unit, can you feel a cold spot at some point? Search along from where the coolant splits off into three legs all the way to the working unit while the system has been running for a while. If you can feel it on the faulty leg and the same kind of spot on the other legs don't feel cold, that is could be where the problem occurs. Likewise, if there is a really hot point on the faulty line where it doesn't exist on the other legs then that could be a place to think about. Use either a contact thermometer probe or bottom of your wrist, just below the hand. There are tons of nerves in that area that can feel heat. Just make sure you start with your fingertips so you don't burn or freeze your wrist.
-r2k
I kind of suspect that there are no leaks of freon. If there was, all three circuits would fail and you would get no cooling at all. There is only one cavity of freon inside, so a leak in any part will bleed the whole system.
Did this system work for a while, or has it always been a problem? Is there anything you changed or replaced at the time it failed?
The freon recharging valves are usually (at least, on my units) right at the point where the freon hoses go into the compressor housing. There is a coupling on each hose and can be used to measure the high side and low side pressures. For the freon I had added, the technician had a chart made specifically for my compressor. If you take the covers off your compressor, you might find an envelope of paperwork that contains what you want. The charts are graphs that show expected pressure ranges if you know the outdoor temperature and humidity. Depending on the pressure, you know if there is enough freon or not. I seriously doubt there will ever be too much freon in the system, but it could happen. If low, the gauge harness the technician had also had a third hose to connect to a freon tank he brought.
I kind of suspect other suggestions in this thread are correct and there is a faulty valve in the path for your freezing unit. The only failure mode I can think of is that the faulty valve is not fully open. You mentioned that you can run this in heating mode, which means that valves need to be switched over to convert the system. Could one of those valves not be fully switched? If I had to guess, I would say you are starving the high pressure side of your evaporator coils because of a constricted opening.
I'm not sure if it is possible, but what are the chances that you got some water in the lines? Water can freeze around gas expansion points and choke off the flow. It's tough to know if that is the cause unless you purge the lines with a vacuum pump. If you use your hand to feel along the lines of the freezing unit, can you feel a cold spot at some point? Search along from where the coolant splits off into three legs all the way to the working unit while the system has been running for a while. If you can feel it on the faulty leg and the same kind of spot on the other legs don't feel cold, that is could be where the problem occurs. Likewise, if there is a really hot point on the faulty line where it doesn't exist on the other legs then that could be a place to think about. Use either a contact thermometer probe or bottom of your wrist, just below the hand. There are tons of nerves in that area that can feel heat. Just make sure you start with your fingertips so you don't burn or freeze your wrist.
-r2k
diseasedmind
Active member
the system worked for about 2 years but I was only using 2 zones(the first one and middle one) then I started running the 3rd zone and It seemed fine, but hard to tell when the problem started. I thought it was an issue with zone one at first because I would open door right before lights on and it was freezing in the room, So I thought it was stuck in cooling mode. Then I realized zone 2 was causing zone one evap coil to turn into a block of Ice and that was why it was so cold.
All 3 running great in heating mode right now, does that 100% rule out low Freon?
All 3 running great in heating mode right now, does that 100% rule out low Freon?
r2k
Member
I don't have a clue. Best I can tell, it really means is that all 3 are running in heating mode. I'm not an A/C guy. It might be so hot outside that it won't freeze up until Fall. Then again, it might be great.
What does it take to switch from heating to cooling? Do you move any valves or hoses, or is the conversion done electrically by just pushing buttons? I wonder if one of the valves is sticking.
Have you tried moving cooling units and hoses around to see where the problem keeps occurring? Keep careful records and see if your problem follows the cooling units, the hoses, or the valves. Mark the hoses with tape stickers so you can remember what you are doing.
-r2k
Hi buddy I install those things for a living and in my experience from what you have tried its probably some foriegn material in the pipe maybe from welding if they didn't purge with nitrogen while welding. It is most likely that or the valve there are many types, either way you are stuffed without a tech looking at it, and yes he would need to look at the fan coil (inside unit) I hope that helps there isn't much you can do yourself its a sealed system and fault finding can be very costly. But it should still be under warranty but that doesn't help if its in your grow room and its not legal Best of luck but its a sticky one mate.
Tangwena
Tangwena
diseasedmind
Active member
I think you are right, not something I will be able to fix myself and having a tech out to fix it isn't an option either. thanks for all the help and suggestions guys.
I think I am going to look into getting one of those quick connect Ideal air single zone splits for that room. what do you guys think of those units? any other brand quick connect units you guys recommend?
Heusinomics
Active member
I hav read n heard very bad things about those ideal air units.
I jst studied up on HVAC n did a pressure n vac on my own.
It's a LG n it works great. N now I got the tools to do it again;D
Sorry about your troubles.
Good luck. Respect and happy growing!
I jst studied up on HVAC n did a pressure n vac on my own.
It's a LG n it works great. N now I got the tools to do it again;D
Sorry about your troubles.
Good luck. Respect and happy growing!
Check out the thread on ideal. Everything they make is junk. They are taking advantage of growers that do not know about hvac. Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, and daikin are the brands to stick with. They are more expensive but well worth it.
Yeah, Ideal Air gets a lot of bad testimonials. Unless the brands snake mentioned have begun to make precharged/self install units, check out the Friedrich Breeze. Comes with 25' of tubing and wiring. You just roll up and secure the excess. No tech needed. You'll probably want a helper. Friedrich is a quality brand. Good luck. -granger
diseasedmind
Active member
lol, ok I guess that rules out Ideal air. I will look into that Friedrich unit for now, just need something to last about 6 months, then moving to new house where I will have a quality unit installed by a professional
r2k
Member
So I thought of a few things today while I was mowing the lawn. I need to name the three evaporators as A, B, and C. C will be the failed unit.
There are two things required to freeze up an evaporator. You need (1) a surface that is below 32*F and (2) The dew point must be above 32*F. We need to figure out how to keep the evaporator surface above the freezing temperature.
1) Did all three evaporators come in the same set, same model numbers, same vendor, and everything else?
2) I assume there are fans on each evaporator. Does evaporator C put out the same amount of air as the other two evaporators? Are there filters on the evaporators, and is evaporator C got a clean filter? If you reduce or block the airflow to the evaporator, it will cool more because you aren't pumping heat into it.
3) Are the coils and cooling fins on evaporator C clean? Dust and gunk in the evaporator coils will block airflow, causing them to get colder.
4) Are the lines to evaporator C longer or shorter than the other evaporators?
5) Did you modify or repair evaporator C in any way? Extra ducting, remove the covers, change the fan, or otherwise alter what came out of the box? Is C mounted about the same as A and B?
6) Did you mount evaporator C according to the manufacturer directions? There might be rules about clearances around the unit to allow good airflow.
-r2k
There are two things required to freeze up an evaporator. You need (1) a surface that is below 32*F and (2) The dew point must be above 32*F. We need to figure out how to keep the evaporator surface above the freezing temperature.
1) Did all three evaporators come in the same set, same model numbers, same vendor, and everything else?
2) I assume there are fans on each evaporator. Does evaporator C put out the same amount of air as the other two evaporators? Are there filters on the evaporators, and is evaporator C got a clean filter? If you reduce or block the airflow to the evaporator, it will cool more because you aren't pumping heat into it.
3) Are the coils and cooling fins on evaporator C clean? Dust and gunk in the evaporator coils will block airflow, causing them to get colder.
4) Are the lines to evaporator C longer or shorter than the other evaporators?
5) Did you modify or repair evaporator C in any way? Extra ducting, remove the covers, change the fan, or otherwise alter what came out of the box? Is C mounted about the same as A and B?
6) Did you mount evaporator C according to the manufacturer directions? There might be rules about clearances around the unit to allow good airflow.
-r2k
diseasedmind
Active member
1) Yes all three air handlers came together as one package
2) yes C seems to output the same amount of air as others, I removed filters and still freezes up.
3)I cleaned them with condenser cleaner spray foam from home depot
4) after looking at them again C may be the shortest because the one closest to the outdoor unit has a loop in it (not sure why it was installed this way).
5) nope was working great for over 1 year no mods at all
6)a bit limited on space(short ceilings), but no more restricted airflow then the other units.
r2k
Member
Crap, I was hoping to find something easy to fix.
I'm not sure if it is possible, but is there any way to push (or pull) more air through evaporator C? It would require adding extra fan power to boost what is already coming through. I would think you should at least double the air movement through the evaporator, more is better.
Either that, or you pay some guy to step into your grow zone and take a look. Ewww.......
-r2k
I'm not sure if it is possible, but is there any way to push (or pull) more air through evaporator C? It would require adding extra fan power to boost what is already coming through. I would think you should at least double the air movement through the evaporator, more is better.
Either that, or you pay some guy to step into your grow zone and take a look. Ewww.......
-r2k
