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Minions of the Dark

Looked at that site and it seems many of the ingredients are the same.
1/3 mature compost or leaf mold, screened
1/3 garden topsoil
1/3 sharp sand
1/2 cubic yard sphagnum peat
1/2 cubic yard vermiculite
10 pounds bone meal
5 pounds ground limestone
5 pounds blood meal

One of the things that is different is the base soil they say to use is compost and garden topsoil instead of bagged soil. Most don't live on a farm and don't have access to compost so have to use a base soil in bags for ease of use. (Also compost includes bugs, exactly what I am trying to avoid)
Problem with sand is it compacts and doesn't allow great airflow when wet.
Peat moss is used but also coco because it allows great air flow.
vermiculite is not great for worms in a worm bin according to Vermicomposters website. Perlite is the substitute and is included in the light warrior used in the mix.
Fish bone meal is suggested in place of bone meal but not many places carry it. The site ironically suggests using bone meal in many of the recipes.
They also say in the critique of the super soil is rock phosphate has heavy metels. Could not find it at local store so it was not added to my mixture. Also using 2 different liquid ferts in flower that contain high P and K so really no reason to add this product.
They also say that Dolimite lime is not necessary however I say how else do you keep the PH from drifting? Especially when coco is used as PH is very important so nutrients can be available And it is suggested in the soil recipes on the other site.
Humic acid is not available at most places so they recommend Ful-Power from Bio-ag. Also not available from most places locally. Was not added to my mixture for this reason.

Here is the main reason for using this mixture. It's easy to mix. Products are easily available for purchase at most stores. The recipe I use makes the exact amount needed to fill a 30 gallon container for cooking. 1/3 the amounts of the original recipe.
It is mixed in the lower area of the pot with cool soil when repotting to a larger container where the roots grow into it in flower. When they want the extra nutrients during the most growth demanding phase of the plant. Not in early or mid veg growth. And it works well. I did add a few items like kelp meal and alfalfa meal to the recipe. But to each his own. What works best for me might not work for others. Interesting read Sea.
 

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
like I said, I'd use the mix whole... the mix is mostly organic, but the layers and spikes are the stoner science I was referring to... nevermind the McDonald's cows... In Rev's, and subcool's "Science Free" growing, the spikes are the lower part of the pot. Now there are variations of this, but a plant can only take what a plant can take, so adding a hot layer does not force a plant to consume more food. There's no science to that and only the plant can control it.... Not you..... Unless you circumvent the entire process, and go with chemical "organic" fertilizers. Other than that the rhizosphere wants what the rhizosphere wants.

More microbes + more soil life=more nutrient cycling=more available nutes to the plant

but again you can lead a horse to water....... you cannot force it to drink....

The soil holds all that shit anyway and releases it in to the soil solution (water) as the plant requires it via ion exchange...

For example, you could have 60ppm P in the soil, but only 5ppm will be available to the plant in aqueous solution. This is why "layers" and over fertilizing make no sense.

These days, "organic" is an abused word.....

the same as "all natural"....
 
The part where people fail, is keeping the soil alive and full of microbes that can actually process the added minerals and nutrients fast enough to keep up with the plant. You require the appropriate life involved.
In that article he actually covers this aspect of microbes. "Mycorrhizae: Adding this to your soil doesn't make sense and is a waste of resources. Anyone who works with mycorrhizae will tell you to apply to the rootzone at transplant or seedling stage. Obviously this super soil mix is for the bottom of the container and nowhere near the rootzone at the proper time. Basically just a complete waste of Myco."

When transplanting a clone (not a seedling) as most cannabis growers do in a one gallon pot to a larger pot containing the super soil mixture the roots are only seperated by the super soil containing the mycorrhizae by less than an inch of buffer soil to prevent root burn.(transplant shock) Not sure the person who wrote this critique understands the reason behind the use of the hotter soil. Root growth explodes after the up size within a week. The roots grow into the soil surrounding the transplant in less than 2 weeks and search for water and nutrients. Also when you water with a tea you are reintroducing the mycro and fungie at that time. It trickles into the soil and root zone. (again what subcool discussed)
Surprised he did not include a recipe after critiqing the super soil. He also didn't take into consideration that most people live in a house, apartment or an area that it is hard to compost their own soil. Which takes months to mature into a usable product. Another thing to consider is the amount of time the clone goes from the repot to flower is usually 1-2 months at most indoors. The total amount of time in soil before harvest is 4 months at most before the soil is usually disgarded. Unless you are using the soil again for new clones to replace the finished plant. Which is not recommended because of pests, disease and the chance that a infection in the root zone can spread to the new plant. So container farming indoors is different than outdoors and should have been considered in his write up.

He also says this, "Then use this in the BOTTOM of your soil container. What is interesting is that all though this makes sense at first glance... it's all way off. Nature doesn't have all the nutrients on the bottom in fact it's the opposite, all the plants in nature have the nutrients on the top. That is why building a soil, using mulch and topdressing work so well. It's things like this that make the real organic gardners and farmers laugh at all of us sometimes."
Not sure I agree with what he says here. When a farmer tills his field is he not mixing the top soil lower in nutrients with the soil lower in the ground where the remaining nutrients washed into the lower regions of the compacted soil? (actually most outdoor fields are sprayed with manure cow, chicken, horse liquid spray before it is tilled into the soil, You have probably smelled it after it was freshly done)
Also from everything I have read the top layer is usually low in nutrients because of rain washing the nutrients away and wind blowing them away? Unless you are talking about a forest where the decaying matter is breaking down on the surface. Two different environments. He also failed to mention that subcool recommends top dressing the plants around week 5 of flower. Which he does say works so well.
Anyway, to each his own.
 
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MrTea

some guy
Veteran
TGA Subcool is a breeder not a grower. Don't care what anyone thinks. If you want to layer the bottom of your pots with some pelletized chicken manure or blood meal with an npk of 14-0-0 then good luck, see what happens when your roots reach the bottom of your pots.

Also, Myco is phenomenal. Adding myco to your roots will establish biodiversity like you've never seen before, especially when green mulching; you will see crazy mycelium on your root zone when transplanting. When using myco the point is to not hit the entire soil mix, when I transplant i get my little hole situated and coat that with ewc and then myco so that the roots of the plant HAVE to go through the layer of myco and ewc. Once again when it comes to organics there is no "waste of resources" as the whole idea of organics is to utilize every resource possible. The more diversity the better. My $25 bag of BIOAG VamEndo Mycorrhizae will last me a long time, a long long time.
 

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
Well, sub is a grower... And as a point of fact, he's not a bad one either, which is why he and the "rev" have so many blind followers... they just use questionable practices... the problem with that is, when someone is both incorrect and put upon a pedestal, others follow those practices without thought or regard... hence my resistance to stoner science.
No organic resource aside from cannabis ones will ever recommend these practices of layering. In real life inputs decay within the top few inches of soil. Which is why the organic growers mulch and topdress...
Tilling soil, although a common practice (so are chemical fertilizers) its actually bad for the soil life and structure. Crop rotation and cover crops are FAR superior in real life situations.


Tilling vs No-till
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-till_farming

Tilling is used to remove weeds, shape the soil into rows for crop plants and furrows for irrigation. This leads to unfavorable effects, like soil compaction; loss of organic matter; degradation of soil aggregates; death or disruption of soil microbes and other organisms including mycorrhiza, arthropods, and earthworms; and soil erosion where topsoil is blown or washed away. No-till farming avoids these effects by excluding the use of tillage. With this way of farming, crop residues or other organic amenities are retained on the soil surface and sowing/fertilizing is done with minimal soil disturbance.

No-till is an agricultural technique which increases the amount of water that infiltrates into the soil and increases organic matter retention and cycling of nutrients in the soil. In many agricultural regions it can eliminate soil erosion. It increases the amount and variety of life in and on the soil, including disease-causing organisms and disease suppression organisms. The most powerful benefit of no-tillage is improvement in soil biological fertility, making soils more resilient. Farm operations are made much more efficient, particularly improved time of sowing and better traffic-ability of farm operations.
No-till improves soil quality (soil function), carbon, organic matter, aggregates, protecting the soil from erosion, evaporation of water, and structural breakdown. A reduction in tillage passes helps prevent the compaction of soil.

Recently, researchers at the Agricultural Research Service of the United States Department of Agriculture found that no-till farming makes soil much more stable than plowed soil. Their conclusions draw from over 19 years of collaborated tillage studies. No-till stores more carbon in the soil and carbon in the form of organic matter is a key factor in holding soil particles together. The first inch of no-till soil is two to seven times less vulnerable than that of plowed soil. The practice of no-till farming is especially beneficial to Great Plains farmers because of its resistance to erosion.

Crop residues left intact help both natural precipitation and irrigation water infiltrate the soil where it can be used. The crop residue left on the soil surface also limits evaporation, conserving water for plant growth. Soil compaction and no tillage-pan, soil absorbs more water and plants are able to grow their roots deeper into the soil and suck up more water.

Tilling a field reduces the amount of water, via evaporation, around 1/3 to 3/4 inches (0.85 to 1.9 cm ) per pass. By no-tilling, this water stays in the soil, available to the plants.

Just one more example on how incorrect practices can be commonplace.
 
TGA Subcool is a breeder not a grower. Don't care what anyone thinks. If you want to layer the bottom of your pots with some pelletized chicken manure or blood meal with an npk of 14-0-0 then good luck, see what happens when your roots reach the bottom of your pots.

My $25 bag of BIOAG VamEndo Mycorrhizae will last me a long time, a long long time.
The layering is really just using the better soil and mixing it with one devoid of high natural ferts and minerals because it is going from a fragil seedling or clone into a larger container, mixing the higher octane soil containing plenty of everything with a less expensive cooler soil that is light and fluffy. When mixed and the benefit of the larger sized container it works as a instant boost to the plant that is ready to take off. Not fire (chicken manure and blood meal.) lol did make me laugh.

Like the idea of spraying the hole with mycorrihizae. Do you just mix it with water or is it added dry?

No organic resource aside from cannabis ones will ever recommend these practices of layering. In real life inputs decay within the top few inches of soil. Which is why the organic growers mulch and topdress...


Just one more example on how incorrect practices can be commonplace.
Sea, when you transplant a seedling or clone, don't you use cool soil before you add it to a bigger pot with hotter soil? You arn't saying to put the delicate clone in the same soil as a mature plant right? Even on that site they have seperate recipes for young plants.

What I am doing is no different. The hotter soil gives me the chance to have better soil available that is 30 days old. Has populations of good bacteria. Has all the nutrients the plant could want to use over a 3 month period during the plants most demanding intake during flowering. Is strong enough to mix the 2 soils so I have a weak soil for young plants and a better quality soil for juvenile and adult plants. And is light and fluffy for great oxygen exchange at the root zone.

For juvenile's the soil mixture is light and fluffy for great oxygen exchange when roots are first forming. Believe high oxygen levels and light soil with great drainage is more important than having a soil that could be too hot for a young plant. They are only in the cool soil for 4 weeks or 6 at most depending on size. (ie. if they need a larger container) After that then they get the better soil. Seems to be working anyway.

I'll check out those links. Hope this explains it a little better.
 

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
I do have a seedling mix, but as soon as roots develop or the 3rd set of leaves emerge, they go in my standard soil, full strength, from that point forward... same as any mature plant.

TP'ing from seedling mix to full strength is not the same as the layers of hot soil at the bottom of the pots and spikes and the rest of the unscientific garbage....

These "spikes" DO happen in nature when an animal dies and nothing consumes or interferes with the corpse (which is very rare).... but nothing grows there until these "hot spots" diminish after all the decomposition and composting has taken place. That alone should tell you that these hot spots are not a good thing.

All you need for nutrient cycling to take place is keeping it damp and turning it from time to time letting the microbes get oxygen.

How sub could think he can do this better than how nature does it is arrogance.

Why wouldn't you want an even mix? Plants and soil microbes will give the plant what it asks for when it needs it.

I guess at least he promotes living soil, but cannabis should be grown like tomatoes. What is misguided for tomatoes is misguided for cannabis.

Check out the books and do as you see fit. The sub mix itself is ok, it's not bad, it's not great.... I mean... half of it is just bagged soil anyway... the methods of layering and spiking are the aspects of stoner science I disagree with....

I'll clue you in on my secret ingredient for soil building.... got some powerful decomposing microbes in there.... LOL

e427548242194e1f9eb1.jpg
 
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MrTea

some guy
Veteran
Like the idea of spraying the hole with mycorrihizae. Do you just mix it with water or is it added dry?

I just take a few pinches and dust the hole I am transplanting into, dry. Then again, i have no idea what other myco products require for distribution. My Bioag myco is best used dry.
 

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
Heres some mulch shots in preparation for the additional predatory insects that should be arriving tomorrow...

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Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
My nuclear option for my IPM finally arrived....

b81843b51a0fd2ec934b.jpg


Organic flamethrower... double the heat of the "ghost chili", and just 1 tiny step below police grade pepper spray....
 
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MrTea

some guy
Veteran
Halo 2x
IMG_20140507_173906_218.jpg

Halo 2x has some awesome internodal growth. Very tight and each branches out so quickly as if racing to be the tallest like i've never seen before. Loving the structure, she's going to have to be lst'd down soon to expose more lower branches.
IMG_20140507_174101_993.jpg

1 Minion City Diesel and 1 Kraken. Guess which one is which and win a prize.
IMG_20140507_174217_707.jpg


Garden shot
IMG_20140507_171950_374.jpg
 

Seaf0ur

Pagan Extremist
Veteran
I reckon things may not establish in my veg properly the way things move around so much... therefore, I made a small terrarium for the rove beetles so they have something more permanent to breed in aside from the mint plants.

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PakaloloFromPNW

Active member
Veteran
My Halo 2X is acting like the Original Halo and wanting to go into flower mode under 18/6 lighting. I don't have any room for her in the flower area.



As you can see the 4x6' flower room is getting quite full. I've got a Mildred and Trainwreck ending their 4th week. In the back right I've got 2 Original Halo ending week 3. The rest are ending week 2. So just no room for the Halo 2X. I hope she will remain patient until there is room for her.
 

Buzzed

Member
Wuz up minions? I have something short to say and i will expand on it later. SG, hope rehab is doing well. This is for you G.......

Some grass will make you talk to all kinds of senseless spirits, but Halo 2x will get you a reply :party:

Well done ole' man :tiphat:
 

SG1

Goblin Master
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Cool
I got 2 ready to chop in a couple weeks.
Be my first taste of the H2x
 
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