Mini Split prices 5000 for a 2 ton?

[Jonny Lan]

So I've been trying to find someone in Ontario that can install the commercial Mitsubishi mini splits (p-series pka model) and I've been having a hard time with that. Found someone who will install an lg model that is not as good as the mits. The unit itself goes for 1799.99 usd but they want to charge me 5,199 cad. For the install, line covering(insulation), plumbing for the condensation and 10 year service and parts warranty. This is quite a mark up.

My question is for those who have gotten mini splits installed. Is this a reasonable price to pay considering the stuff they are doing? I appreciate and answeres and if you are in ontario and can point me in a better direction would be great. Thanks!

 

[queequeg152]

i used to bitch about the price of a professional HVAC system install but when you sit down and think about it... it makes total sense.

for one thing... the price you see online is often alot cheaper than your hvac guys. just think about it. your buying from a website that is stocking 100's of them probably. your hvac guy has to go to his supply house maby 30 min away, and buy just ONE. yea hes going to be paying like 30% more im guessing. if he is installing like 20 a month it might be a different story, but for a one off? its probably quite a bit more expensive for him.

2. hes not jsut selling you a a system... hes selling you a warranty that he may or may not have to fulfill.

3. the hours are alot more than you think. dude has to drive back and forth from the supplier, then maby again out to a parts supplier for a lineset, filter dryer, lineset cover, thermostat etc. probably like 2 hours to get the shit from a store to your place.

then at least another 2-3 hours to install the system, 2 hours more if he has to run a new circuit from the breaker.

its at least half a day if you think about it... and the dude needs to make like 100 an hour at least to pay his car note, building lease etc... idk it makes perfect sense to me. i mean its not like these guys are low skilled handymen or any shit like that... most are running around with like 3 grand worth of tools in their van, and are from like 2 year trade schools, and then had to apprentice for a few years before they can get a state license.

you can always do it yourself, its just a mini split after all. just need like 500+ bucks worth of tools depending on what you are doing.

 

[rubberducky]

So I've been trying to find someone in Ontario that can install the commercial Mitsubishi mini splits (p-series pka model) and I've been having a hard time with that. Found someone who will install an lg model that is not as good as the mits. The unit itself goes for 1799.99 usd but they want to charge me 5,199 cad. For the install, line covering(insulation), plumbing for the condensation and 10 year service and parts warranty. This is quite a mark up.

My question is for those who have gotten mini splits installed. Is this a reasonable price to pay considering the stuff they are doing? I appreciate and answeres and if you are in ontario and can point me in a better direction would be great. Thanks!

ontario california??

 

[Jonny Lan]

can

can

Ontario canada

 

[rubberducky]

Ontario canada

nvm im near ontario cali could have the unit installed for a few hundred bucks. but nvm. hope u get it figured out

 

[stoney917]

R the lines precharged with Freon??? If they are it's about an hr if you have any construction skills... maybe 2 if you a bit slow and gotta run wire ... but a drill pair of channel locks screw driver wire strippers ur good to go.. I agree that 5k seems stupid high but Ya do the math going rate on licensed hvac work ain't cheap...

 

[Jonny Lan]

nvm im near ontario cali could have the unit installed for a few hundred bucks. but nvm. hope u get it figured out

I love the vibe and canna seen out there in Cali must be nice rubberducky.

Queequeg appreciate the insight. Makes me not feel so bad to spend the money, kinda...

Sofaking, always very helpful, thanks buddy. no not pre charged I have been considering diy but I'm handy for nothing but growing and hanging carbon filters from tents and shit lol. I'm already trying to learn how to put hardwood floors into this house. Got it in as is condition and its been a nightmare trying to get it in shape. Friggin guys spliced wires all over the house. They let the windows rot out, they turned off the furnace in winter beffore we bought the place and a pipe bursted. So far we haven't seen any mold other than what was in the bursted pipe area, top floor. The basement thankfully is a walk out, and the house was built 95 so its not that old. I have been doing the rip out myself and now getting to the point I can get contractors in.

 

[linky]

I just installed a mini split last week. Paid 1000 shipped for a 18k btu (1.5 ton) heat pump unit, came with line set and everything needed to be installed. Bought it from alpinehomeair website (have purchased a few central air systems and air handlers from them as well, great customer service and prices.)

I bought an hvac vacuum pump and gauge set off amazon for like 110 dollars, bought a nitrogen regulator from amazon for 50 bucks and picked up a 20 cu foot nitrogen tank for 87 (bought tank).

I was able to do the complete install myself with these tools.. installed inside unit, attached line set, hooked up wiring (4 wires from inside unit to be ran to outside condenser, installed outside electrical box (installed 240v breaker and line in electrical panel to outside box). I then put 200 psi of nitrogen to pressure test the line set/system to check for leaks, let it sit for a couple hours, held pressure fine, no leaks then vacuumed line set/system for about 1.5 hours, turned off pump and it held vacuum still after an hour or two so released coolant into the line/system and everything has been running perfectly since with no leaks. Sounds like a lot but its pretty simple.. just plan on half a day or so and take your time, a ton of info online on how to do all this.

Some units will have the line set already vacuumed for you, you just hook them up and release coolant.. have to be sure you have no leaks at all on all 4 ends of the line set, even a little tiny leak will result in a system that does not work in matter of days/weeks/months depending how bad the leak is.. spray soapy water on the connections after releasing coolant into the system (system will be under pressure then) to make sure they are not leaking. Problem is if they are leaking and you can't get it to stop by snugging up the connections you are sol, no recovering the coolant on most mini split systems, would result in total coolant loss and require a complete recharge. I would get a mini split where you either solder the ends or have flare connections and pressurize with nitrogen to be sure there are no leaks before releasing the coolant. This is the info I gathered anyways when doing my research.

 

[Jonny Lan]

I just installed a mini split last week. Paid 1000 shipped for a 18k btu (1.5 ton) heat pump unit, came with line set and everything needed to be installed. Bought it from alpinehomeair website (have purchased a few central air systems and air handlers from them as well, great customer service and prices.)

I bought an hvac vacuum pump and gauge set off amazon for like 110 dollars, bought a nitrogen regulator from amazon for 50 bucks and picked up a 20 cu foot nitrogen tank for 87 (bought tank).

I was able to do the complete install myself with these tools.. installed inside unit, attached line set, hooked up wiring (4 wires from inside unit to be ran to outside condenser, installed outside electrical box (installed 240v breaker and line in electrical panel to outside box). I then put 200 psi of nitrogen to pressure test the line set/system to check for leaks, let it sit for a couple hours, held pressure fine, no leaks then vacuumed line set/system for about 1.5 hours, turned off pump and it held vacuum still after an hour or two so released coolant into the line/system and everything has been running perfectly since with no leaks. Sounds like a lot but its pretty simple.. just plan on half a day or so and take your time, a ton of info online on how to do all this.

Some units will have the line set already vacuumed for you, you just hook them up and release coolant.. have to be sure you have no leaks at all on all 4 ends of the line set, even a little tiny leak will result in a system that does not work in matter of days/weeks/months depending how bad the leak is.. spray soapy water on the connections after releasing coolant into the system (system will be under pressure then) to make sure they are not leaking. Problem is if they are leaking and you can't get it to stop by snugging up the connections you are sol, no recovering the coolant on most mini split systems, would result in total coolant loss and require a complete recharge. I would get a mini split where you either solder the ends or have flare connections and pressurize with nitrogen to be sure there are no leaks before releasing the coolant. This is the info I gathered anyways when doing my research.

See I must be an idiot cause all that sounds like headache. But I get it now. After all this work on the house and quotes for different work I need done on it its clear you diy or you pay to play.

 

[Jonny Lan]

I just want to get to growing. So I guess ill just pay the 5600 and get one room where I need to be and set up tent in the other room and run intake exhaust with a portable unit. My main problem is that mits doesn't allow you to install their units diy anyways.

 

[Mr Blah]

I think you are being taken for a ride.
I just had a mits 3 ton last yr put in professionally for 3200.
That's in Maine.
Keep shopping around.

 

[stoney917]

What does 5600 Canadian equal USD???? Lol ... my daughter moved to Ontario Canada recently from nyc. unfortunately her husband is as useful on a jobsite as the porta-potty.. wasn't trying to go up there till july it was91 deg here yesterday. What was the temp there??? Lol... speaking on that subject make 100% sure you buy a unit that will run regardless of outside temperature some units could care less if u got 4K going got Ya room cooking cuz its below 50 deg out side...

 

[Jonny Lan]

This makes me feel better already. But I must tell you that the quote was for an lg. I got a rough estimate for the mits I need over the phone (2-ton) and the guy said 7500cad!!!! 3200 usd is about 4160cad I'd love to pay that! Us Dam Canadians must not have competition like you guys over there and come up with prices in our heads lol

I think you are being taken for a ride.
I just had a mits 3 ton last yr put in professionally for 3200.
That's in Maine.
Keep shopping around.

 

[Jonny Lan]

5600 usd is about 8260 cad!

 

[Jonny Lan]

Were at about 35f right now lol warmest its been all week. The mits I'm looking at cools to -22f and warms to -14f so low amience is pretty good on these

 

[Mr Blah]

Were at about 35f right now lol warmest its been all week. The mits I'm looking at cools to -22f and warms to -14f so low amience is pretty good on these

I had mine on ever since I got it last yr. Last weekend was -17F with wind chill and it was on heat mode but still.
I believe in you get what you pay for so don't cheap out on this. IMHO.

 

[queequeg152]

What does 5600 Canadian equal USD???? Lol ... my daughter moved to Ontario Canada recently from nyc. unfortunately her husband is as useful on a jobsite as the porta-potty.. wasn't trying to go up there till july it was91 deg here yesterday. What was the temp there??? Lol... speaking on that subject make 100% sure you buy a unit that will run regardless of outside temperature some units could care less if u got 4K going got Ya room cooking cuz its below 50 deg out side...

are you saying a porta poty is not usefull?

you know how much coffe people drink at 6am when they start work? lol. that thing for sure gets a ton of abuse.

 

[queequeg152]

I just installed a mini split last week. Paid 1000 shipped for a 18k btu (1.5 ton) heat pump unit, came with line set and everything needed to be installed. Bought it from alpinehomeair website (have purchased a few central air systems and air handlers from them as well, great customer service and prices.)

I bought an hvac vacuum pump and gauge set off amazon for like 110 dollars, bought a nitrogen regulator from amazon for 50 bucks and picked up a 20 cu foot nitrogen tank for 87 (bought tank).

I was able to do the complete install myself with these tools.. installed inside unit, attached line set, hooked up wiring (4 wires from inside unit to be ran to outside condenser, installed outside electrical box (installed 240v breaker and line in electrical panel to outside box). I then put 200 psi of nitrogen to pressure test the line set/system to check for leaks, let it sit for a couple hours, held pressure fine, no leaks then vacuumed line set/system for about 1.5 hours, turned off pump and it held vacuum still after an hour or two so released coolant into the line/system and everything has been running perfectly since with no leaks. Sounds like a lot but its pretty simple.. just plan on half a day or so and take your time, a ton of info online on how to do all this.

Some units will have the line set already vacuumed for you, you just hook them up and release coolant.. have to be sure you have no leaks at all on all 4 ends of the line set, even a little tiny leak will result in a system that does not work in matter of days/weeks/months depending how bad the leak is.. spray soapy water on the connections after releasing coolant into the system (system will be under pressure then) to make sure they are not leaking. Problem is if they are leaking and you can't get it to stop by snugging up the connections you are sol, no recovering the coolant on most mini split systems, would result in total coolant loss and require a complete recharge. I would get a mini split where you either solder the ends or have flare connections and pressurize with nitrogen to be sure there are no leaks before releasing the coolant. This is the info I gathered anyways when doing my research.

the ONLY problem i have with your install is the lack of a micron gauge (120 bucks for a cheap one).

a micron gauge basically confirms that you have a deep vacuum below 500 microns. if you have some moisture inside you lineset you will notice your micron gauge stall out at like 1000-1500 microns untill the ice is gone.

when working with used linesets it might take hours and hours to get rid of lots of moisture, especially when its cold out and you can only get the ice to sublimate.

imo you always need to use a micron gauge even on a brand new install with brand new ACR copper thats 100% dry... at a minimum its going to confirm that your vacuum pump is operating well and the oil is in good condition. other than that... your install is very reasonable though i dont like flared fittings personally. i would swage and braze myself, but its purely a personal preference.

 

[linky]

the ONLY problem i have with your install is the lack of a micron gauge (120 bucks for a cheap one).

a micron gauge basically confirms that you have a deep vacuum below 500 microns. if you have some moisture inside you lineset you will notice your micron gauge stall out at like 1000-1500 microns untill the ice is gone.

when working with used linesets it might take hours and hours to get rid of lots of moisture, especially when its cold out and you can only get the ice to sublimate.

imo you always need to use a micron gauge even on a brand new install with brand new ACR copper thats 100% dry... at a minimum its going to confirm that your vacuum pump is operating well and the oil is in good condition. other than that... your install is very reasonable though i dont like flared fittings personally. i would swage and braze myself, but its purely a personal preference.

I agree, the vacuum pump and gauges are cheap ones I bought, This one went down to -30(mg is it?), I think 30 is a complete vacuum maybe, not sure. I was able to pull down to like 29.x with my pump, let it run at least 1.5 hours, maybe 2. Since I am not doing this as a profession, just to install my own units (hard to find a grow room friendly ac guy, especially one who does not over charge) I figured it is good enough. Time will tell though

I would prefer a soldered connection as well, but it came flared and I have never soldered plumbing (only wire), although I am sure that is relatively easy as well but I just stuck with the flare connections. I did have to put a new flare on one of the ends as I could not get it to stop leaking (flare tool on amazon, 22 bucks). After putting new flare on was able to get it to not leak.

 

[queequeg152]

yea man vacuum gauges are only good for the first 10 minutes of an evacuation. analogue gauges are pretty innacurate though. if you read the specs on the yellow jacket gauges, you will find that they only maintain the states 1% accurace for POSITIVE pressures, and the pressure band is like 400 psi wide so a gauge that is accurate for r410 might not even be that accurate for another refrigerant like r22, or r134a.

basically you should only be using the gauges to check the discharge and suction pressures... super heating and sub cooling figures, not the vacuum.

digital gauges are alot better in that they are accurate over a much wider band, but still they are not designed for accurate vacuum measurements. for this you still need a micron gauge.

when your gauge is reading 30 inches of mercury, cheap gauges might be off as much as like 10,000 microns.

modern refrigerants really need the deep vacuum unlike older HCFC's like r22 because they oil they use is highly hydroscopic. yes a filter dryer will deal with some amount of moisture, but again, you need the micron gauge to ensure that you are getting a proper deep vacuum and ensuring that your vacuum pump is working well.

i have to be honest in that im shocked that you found a vacuum pump for only 110 bucks? was this a two stage vacuum pump? was this one of the harbor freight types?

and yea flare connections are pretty finicky and easy to fuck up.
technically you are supposed to use a special torque wrench that clicks at the flare union manufacturers torque specification... but in reality nobody wants to spend the cash for the tool so they end up using smooth jaw channel locks or just a pair or wrenches.

for a while i think some people were using a certain nylog product to grease the flare inside face... but idk if this was ever a great idea. nylog is more of a thread sealant that happens to be compatible with refrigerants and refrigerant oils. if you put it on the mating surfaces of a flare fitting... assuming the flare is done correctly, its just going to extrude out into the refrigerant lines.