Can't have everything, I guess.
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MH vs HPS for yield?
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Can't have everything, I guess.
Thanks for that!My thoughts; quality of light is a significant factor in plant health.
I read an interesting article one time. Can't remember where, but it was from someone who had some relevant university training. He stated how he felt a lot of people mistook the various nutrients that we give plants as food, when in fact the nutrients aren't the food per say, but more so vitamins; Light is the food.
I thought that was very interesting. We all know what happens to overall health without a well balanced diet.
Cannabis is not a normal plant when "flipped" you want to get it off its growing vegetative stage and have it focus on making big sticky buds on the way too its sure death.
It always baffles me when I see people harvesting perfectly green plants. It's like the plant never did its thing, and never reached full potential of eating itself into the best it can be. You need to ripen Cannabis, and by giving it to much "Blue" light and too much nitrogen late in flower the plant never reaches its full potential, imo. You want the plant to realize the end is near, make lights off cold if you can, straight cool R.O. water flush the last few days, no nitrogen, ect.
If your plant didn't "Fade" you did it wrong.
Good growers find that taking a plant out of a 24 hour MH room and putting it in a 12/12 HPS room triggers what you want. Get a little stretch for yield and let the games begin
D
Drek
Hi Bliss. When you flip the lights, the plant thinks the season is coming to an end, naturally. A plant doesn't eat itself. Plants get tons of blue light outdoors during flowering and there is plenty of nitrogen still in the soil. Nitrogen doesn't magically disappear from the Earth when a cannabis plant wants to finish flowering. There is so much bullshit that people have ingrained in their thinking about this and that and how this needs to be and that has to be, it's a little tiring after a while.
- Here...why don't you hang with Soma for a bit and chill. Maybe you'll pick up some tips on how to treat a plant properly and you guys can blow one back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCMPlQK5h0&list=UUR79cwypCvaZyQqaX_CJJLQ
- Here...why don't you hang with Soma for a bit and chill. Maybe you'll pick up some tips on how to treat a plant properly and you guys can blow one back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCMPlQK5h0&list=UUR79cwypCvaZyQqaX_CJJLQ
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Hi Bliss. When you flip the lights, the plant thinks the season is coming to an end, naturally. A plant doesn't eat itself. Plants get tons of blue light outdoors during flowering and there is plenty of nitrogen still in the soil. Nitrogen doesn't magically disappear from the Earth when a cannabis plant wants to finish flowering. There is so much bullshit that people have ingrained in their thinking about this and that and how this needs to be and that has to be, it's a little tiring after a while.
- Here...why don't you hang with Soma for a bit and chill. Maybe you'll pick up some tips on how to treat a plant properly and you guys can blow one back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCMPlQK5h0&list=UUR79cwypCvaZyQqaX_CJJLQ
You have that exactly backwards. Inputs are consumed by the plant. If what you are suggesting were true you could plant the same plot over and over without adding anything to the soil for subsequent crops.
OTOH, he's correct about blue light. During the growing season, it's always present as a much higher % of the total than HPS can possibly provide. In no way does HPS accurately simulate sunshine in any season or at any time of day.
Hi Bliss. When you flip the lights, the plant thinks the season is coming to an end, naturally. A plant doesn't eat itself. Plants get tons of blue light outdoors during flowering and there is plenty of nitrogen still in the soil. Nitrogen doesn't magically disappear from the Earth when a cannabis plant wants to finish flowering. There is so much bullshit that people have ingrained in their thinking about this and that and how this needs to be and that has to be, it's a little tiring after a while.
- Here...why don't you hang with Soma for a bit and chill. Maybe you'll pick up some tips on how to treat a plant properly and you guys can blow one back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCMPlQK5h0&list=UUR79cwypCvaZyQqaX_CJJLQ
Like I have already said in a past post, who cares what the Natural Earth and outside conditions are, they are far from ideal????
Outside plants SUCK compared too a perfect environment inside grow room. Inside you can dial in temps and humidity, feed what you want, when you want. Give them a perfect amount of light on a consistent basis, ect.
And what I meant by eating itself, is the fade, fan leaves dying, turning colors, ect. A couple waterings the final week with straight R.O. water and the plant will "eat" itself of all reserved nutrients, this happens fast.
The "Title" of this thread is MH vs HPS for yield, and HPS wins hands down, end of argument, MH guys lose.
Who said "Sunshine" is perfect for cannabis? Maybe Sunshine is a happy medium for "ALL" living things and not ideal for certain plants?
Fill two identical grow rooms with the same clones, one room running MH and the other running HPS. The HPS room will kick the MH rooms ass.
If MH was the "light" to use, then all the best weed growers in the world would be using it.
It is insulting the MH guys coming in here and telling hardcore master growers they have been using the wrong light the last 25 years, LOL!!!!!!!!
You didn't stipulate Earth, so I'm going with HPS simulating Martian daylight
Seriously though, no argument there at all. Accurately simulating sunshine as a goal is what I'm questioning. I was pointing out Drek's error in understanding hoping to lead him to question some of his other assumptions.
What does simulating sunshine really mean? To my mind the single biggest obstacle to overcome is the sun's virtual negation of the inverse square law. It's never going to be possible to create any sort of pinpoint light source that will provide as much energy to the top of a 6 foot plant as it does the bottom unless we can get it millions of miles away from the plant. Right off the bat we can't simulate the sun's most important feature.
On then to color spectrum. What does that mean for the sun? Lots of variation during the day and year. Maybe the variation is key? It used to be assumed that you want MH for veg and HPS for flower based on the "warm colors of Autumn", I guess.
Maybe it means changes of intensity throughout the day?
I can find nothing that points to anything other than photosynthesis using roughly 2/3 of the visible spectrum with the big drop out in the middle - right where we are best at generating light using either MH or HPS. We need blue or red light. I'd love it if somebody could show me evidence that we need both, that there is an advantage to even distribution or and advantage to emphasizing one or the other.
We will never answer any of these questions by anthropomorphizing plants. They don't see and they don't consume other organisms for sustenance, bug eaters aside, I guess. The Earth is covered with organisms that only use a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that reaches them.
I'd also love to see some evidence that photosynthesis does different things with different wavelengths. UV might trigger a defense mechanism that increases resin production, but that possibility is completely unrelated to photosynthesis and seems to be used as the starting point of some flawed logic in the way we try go about creating optimal environments for our plants.
That in the end is what we should be trying to do - create optimal environments to grow our plants. I want as much efficiency as I can reasonably achieve and I want to get as close as I can to the full expression of the plant's potential. There is nothing to say that won't end up being some glop I pour on the roots under LEDs precisely target the plant's actual needs. We are growing plants indoors.
So, uhh, depriving plants of the photosynthetically active blue light they would normally receive is optimal? And what does that have to do with the "fade"?
I agree that the fade is desirable, but mine do that under a dual arc just fine when I get it right in soil.
I agree that the fade is desirable, but mine do that under a dual arc just fine when I get it right in soil.
D
Drek
@ Bliss
If you knew as much as you think you did, then I wouldn't be getting so bored. Yawn.
Here's just a few of those yellow, eaten themselves, outdoor, poor quality and yielding plants...and poor smoking/tripping ones like Thai and many others. You know, that 70's outdoor weed that would blow your fucking head off?
I've known that outdoor conditions were (surprise) superior since I first read Frank and Rosenthal's Marijuana Book when I was sixteen. If you were at all a knowledgeable, you also would have realized that Trichome production means piss all. It's what's inside the Trichome that matters, the chemical compounds that are genetically produced by the plant, not the silly notion of how many of them there are. Indoor cultivation is our best approximation at outdoor conditions - again - news flash! And anyone that thinks otherwise is egotistical and just plain ignorant.
Aristotle told me - "Open your mind so that you can learn things, but don't open it so much that your brains fall out."
If you knew as much as you think you did, then I wouldn't be getting so bored. Yawn.
Here's just a few of those yellow, eaten themselves, outdoor, poor quality and yielding plants...and poor smoking/tripping ones like Thai and many others. You know, that 70's outdoor weed that would blow your fucking head off?
I've known that outdoor conditions were (surprise) superior since I first read Frank and Rosenthal's Marijuana Book when I was sixteen. If you were at all a knowledgeable, you also would have realized that Trichome production means piss all. It's what's inside the Trichome that matters, the chemical compounds that are genetically produced by the plant, not the silly notion of how many of them there are. Indoor cultivation is our best approximation at outdoor conditions - again - news flash! And anyone that thinks otherwise is egotistical and just plain ignorant.
Aristotle told me - "Open your mind so that you can learn things, but don't open it so much that your brains fall out."
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HPS has plenty of blue light. It has been proven a kazillion times.
D
Drek
Ah the joys of the human ego...defiant and self preserving till the end. Struggling and fighting to validate itself, even in the light of ridiculously obvious truth. What a shame.
..back to my coffee.
..back to my coffee.
Ah the joys of the human ego...defiant and self preserving till the end. Struggling and fighting to validate itself, even in the light of ridiculously obvious truth. What a shame. View Image
..back to my coffee.
I see you have NO followers Drek??
The reason why is because you are a very very small minority that thinks MH can hang with HPS in the flower room.
Show us something Drek, you are all talk, show us some MH flowered plants????
Why would we take you seriously when you have proved nothing besides reading a book or two???
C'mon Drek, I need to see something to prove MH is better.
floppy plants under hps is something every Mh grower also deals with, and that means what exactly?
peruse my albums and it obvious, MH can hang with hps
heres where your again so far from what we've actually been discussing is borderline clueless,
a 4000K Mh can do just AS GOOD as any HPS.
show me all the " MH guys" saying otheriwse?
BTW, where are these insulted hardcore masters in this thread?
you excel at creating false hoods in your conversations to keep your self relevent in a thread you've only read in part.
you make that apparent way more than i could when you state as facts....
how did you arrive at that?
where is your proof?
you left out *imo*
what is not normal when flipped?i
grew in the 70s outdoors, photo period ic shortened enuff and canabis does what its been genetically designed to do what its been doing since before you were in diapers.
it kno's what to do without you kiddo.
how about your saying---> get "a little stretch" with hps?
are you kidding...?
her's clueless again.
Ive seen 2X and 3Xs stretch with HPS,
again making falsehoods to suit your agenda.
get a little stretch is what happens with MH.
soooo... blue lite and N in late flower is the prob eh,
how about just cutting the N,
Mh has nothing to do with it.
you don't have to be anywhere near master grower status to know that...and you don't seem to know it.
rives Tsi Fly, day 56 in CMH 4000K
or just look in my album, i have 100s of lick this
so much so you seem to one in the same with doc... err nurse hotflashes
and when you take into account you've never really run MH in bloom yet you act the authority on it....
this is why those that do know what's what don't waste time debating it with those that are clueless on
the issue like yourself son.
seems like all 2 of yours are here tho
peruse my albums and it obvious, MH can hang with hps
heres where your again so far from what we've actually been discussing is borderline clueless,
a 4000K Mh can do just AS GOOD as any HPS.
show me all the " MH guys" saying otheriwse?
BTW, where are these insulted hardcore masters in this thread?
you excel at creating false hoods in your conversations to keep your self relevent in a thread you've only read in part.
you make that apparent way more than i could when you state as facts....
how did you arrive at that?
where is your proof?
you left out *imo*
what is not normal when flipped?i
grew in the 70s outdoors, photo period ic shortened enuff and canabis does what its been genetically designed to do what its been doing since before you were in diapers.
it kno's what to do without you kiddo.
how about your saying---> get "a little stretch" with hps?
are you kidding...?
her's clueless again.
Ive seen 2X and 3Xs stretch with HPS,
again making falsehoods to suit your agenda.
get a little stretch is what happens with MH.
soooo... blue lite and N in late flower is the prob eh,
how about just cutting the N,
Mh has nothing to do with it.
you don't have to be anywhere near master grower status to know that...and you don't seem to know it.
rives Tsi Fly, day 56 in CMH 4000K
or just look in my album, i have 100s of lick this
its hard to keep track of how many times you really say things so far from truth and fact you literally have nothing to add imo other than confusion and diversion to this discussion,
so much so you seem to one in the same with doc... err nurse hotflashes
and when you take into account you've never really run MH in bloom yet you act the authority on it....
this is why those that do know what's what don't waste time debating it with those that are clueless on
the issue like yourself son.
didn't think drek need any, or anyone else
seems like all 2 of yours are here tho
floppy plants under hps is something every Mh grower also deals with, and that means what exactly?
heres where your again so far from what we've actually been discussing is borderline clueless,
a 4000K Mh can do just AS GOOD as any HPS.
show me all the " MH guys" saying otheriwse?
BTW, where are these insulted hardcore masters in this thread?
you excel at creating false hoods in your conversations to keep your self relevent in a thread you've only read in part.
you make that apparent way more than i could when you state as facts....
how did you arrive at that?
where is your proof?
you left out *imo*
what is not normal when flipped?i
grew in the 70s outdoors, photo period ic shortened enuff and canabis does what its been genetically designed to do what its been doing since before you were in diapers.
it kno's what to do without you kiddo.
how about your saying---> get "a little stretch" with hps?
are you kidding...?
her's clueless again.
Ive seen 2X and 3Xs stretch with HPS,
again making falsehoods to suit your agenda.
get a little stretch is what happens with MH.
soooo... blue lite and N in late flower is the prob eh,
how about just cutting the N,
Mh has nothing to do with it.
you don't have to be anywhere near master grower status to know that...and you don't seem to know it.
rives Tsi Fly, day 56 in CMH 4000K
or just look in my album, i have 100s of lick this
View Image
its hard to keep track of how many times you really say things so far from truth and fact you literally have nothing to add imo other than confusion and diversion to this discussion,
so much so you seem to one in the same with doc... err nurse hotflashes
and when you take into account you've never really run MH in bloom yet you act the authority on it....
this is why those that do know what's what don't waste time debating it with those that are clueless on
the issue like yourself son.
.
4000k cant hang with a Horti Super HPS, or we would be using them.
Small plants stretch, big mature plants not so much. A experienced grower knows this
Like I said, you and Drek are pretty lonely here, minority is an understatement, LOL!!
