MG or Pot. deficiency?

[PaganTom]

Transplanted this little guy from soil to hydro drip about 3 weeks ago and he's getting some browning now that I need help with.

Specs:
pH: 6.0
Dutch Master Advanced growth a/b
Constant drip system
150w CFL
75 degrees
15% humidity

I've flushed the system and added new neutral water with the correct a/b solution, and just in case did a folar spray with 2% epsoms salts.
Comments?

 

[Guest]

Your pH is wrong.... and thus your seeing nute defs and will continue.

Fix your pH and you should be golden!

NOTE: Use the left side of the chart - 5.8 is what you want.

 

[PaganTom]

Klutter: gracias!
I trimmed off the deadwood and today she's looking better. Too much "pH down" I guess..
Thanks!

 

[highallthetime]

5.4 - 5.8 is best hydro ph. Like ph for cactus plants. I never thought these plants could withstand such an acidic balance. Boy was i wrong

 

[MynameStitch]

I honestly think his ppm's are to high; ph may be also playing a role but your ppm's seem to be high even though you did not list your ppm's I am going by what the plant is telling me by the pic.

Are you using distilled water? Tap? Filtered? RO?

How big are these plants and what is the PPM's?

 

[PaganTom]

Thanks for the advice so far guys..
MynameStitch:
Don't slap me upside the head, ok, but I used a local spring water instead of distilled.
As to the ppm, sorry, I don't have a meter yet but understand the need for one.

The little guy was about 12" when I brought him inside (potted) and grew another 12" in the last three weeks. When he was about 18" tall, I began to bend him over (ok guys, no wisecracks) so he's growing sideways, but with new shoots coming up (see pix).


So I guess you could say growth is stunted, but I'm writing this off to the stress of being transplanted from outdoors, then from soil to hydro.
Add to this a newbie who hasn't done this in more than 15 years and you have a recipie for disaster.
That said, I must say that the 150w CFL's are amazing pound for pound in a small grow space such as I have.

 

[inflorescence]

Does your spring water list Na as an ingredient?
If so, it's displacing the K, causing cation antagonism.
The 'leathery" surface of your leaves is due to the 15% rH.

 

[Ganja Guerrilla]

I think your plant is having trouble with the PH adjusting from soil to hydro

 

[PaganTom]

Inflourescence: no, nothing is added to the water, nor is there an ingredient list - it's Deer Park natural spring water, only filtered for particulants. I'm switching to distilled.
The underside leaves and preflowers are nice and light with a normal "feel" to them, and yes, the older damaged leaves have a papery feel to them.

Ganja Gurrilla: thanks, I agree.

To All: I thought that I'd switch to distilled water, lower the pH if necessary and let the puppy grow for another week before switching to the flowering light and nutient solution. Comments?
I know it's not going to have a beaucoup yield, but this was what I consider a "dry run"

Is it better to let the plant grow for two months from seed straight up while pruning for good branches, THEN bend it over if you have lack of space and available light as I do, or bend it over as I have BEFORE forcing the flowering cycle?
Also another newbie question:
What is the "normal" timeframe for hydro cycles?
I've read 40 days for basic growth followed by 60 days of flowering..
And how does one know when the plant is ready to be switched to flowering mode.

Thanks heaps for your help so far - I appreaciate it!

 

[MynameStitch]

First off you need a PPM meter! You also should switch to water that you know what;s in it because when you use water from tap or spring water most of the time it has high calcium magniseum which causes high ph and when you add nutrients you get high ppm's not to mention salt exp sodium from water softners or added taste companys put in to make water taste better but is terrible for cannabis plants.

thats why people use RO distilled because it has very low ph because of less micros; calicum magnesium makes water hard and when you have hard water that even makes difficult for the plants to absorb nutrients.

I would say they are definatly stressed; but they also look overfed from high ppm content the color and the curling of the leaves under would be a hint there.......

Time frame has nothing to do with growing it has to do with the strain; some strains are longer flowering time where some are shorter; it all depends on the strain.

Are you growing a strain you know about or bagseed?

Do not add nutrients untill you know PPM and PH

I would never recoomend anyone doing hydro run without a ppm meter because so many things can go wrong; high ph will cause lockout and then if you add nutrients you just further cause the problem

So you are going to be stuck until you find out what your ppm's are you also need to check your ph daily sometimes more due to plants taking things out of the water and causing ph to rise

 

[PaganTom]

MynameStitch:
I totally agree with everything you said..
Dear Park spring water is actually quite good accoridng to reports.. it's only filtered for sediment with nothing else added, but I'm still going to take your advice and switch to distilled.
The order for the Hanna ph and the conductivity ppm meter went out yesterday and I was just informed it will be here by Monday or Tuesday. Ta Da!
Let the fun begin for real..

As to color, remember that the pix are taken under CFL's, but he color varies from deep green on the older leaves to light green on the new sprouts, which are going NUTS after I lowered the pH.

As to the strain, no, this was bag seed of an unknown very powerfull variety that was around here last year... because of the freshness and taste, we think it was hydro, but no idea of the variety.. very trippy stuff, so I thought that I'd give it a try before inversting in quality seed at a premium price.
Older stoners of the GD era, we like a more Sativa high that takes our minds into the stratosphere - something that's "trancendental" - with a hint of Indica for the body... any suggestions for the best seed to do this?

Thanks again

 

[MynameStitch]

now remember when you switch over to distilled you have to have micro nutrients added since ppm's of distilled are nearly 0 sometimes

Some people don't know but soil growers when you water your plants the nutirents in water help sustain them when it comes to micro nutes.

Which is why plants show deficiencys sooner when using water that is heavy filtration ro or distilled.

So make sure you get some micro nutrients added to your NPK ratio.

 

[PaganTom]

MynameStitch et.al:
OK, my testers came today and I was somewhat shocked at the "true" pH of the little guy.. it was at 7.0
BTW, ph/PPM of our home water (through a Britta tap filter) was 7.5/139 whereas the distilled was 8.2/26
Anyway, I calibrated the pH and PPM's, rinsed out the bucket / medium with clean water 3 times, then created a solution of distilled water, Dutch Harvest and micro nutrients as MynameStitch suggested. I then adjusted the pH down to 5.5 .
Cleaned up the area and trimmed gooey leaves from the base area, and put the pumps back in operation - all is well.
I'll test the pH/PPM again tomorrow..

One thing that bothered me although: when I tested the PPM of the distilled, it read 26 PPM and after the nutrient solution was mixed, it turned out to be over 1840!
If lower is better for conductivity, then how do I reduce the amount and still retain the nutrient solution? It seems to me that it cannot be accomplished..
Teach me, oh wise ones!

 

[inflorescence]

If lower is better for conductivity, then how do I reduce the amount and still retain the nutrient solution? It seems to me that it cannot be accomplished..

Huh (?), your nute solution is your conductivity.
The less nutes you add the lower your EC.
1800 ppm is way too strong for that sized plant anyway.

 

[MynameStitch]

f lower is better for conductivity, then how do I reduce the amount and still retain the nutrient solution? It seems to me that it cannot be accomplished..


This is why you need to use ph up and down and you do not want that strong of a ppm like inflorescence has stated

 

[HeadyPete]

Hi,

I was gonna suggest, as well, that there was some fert burn there, given that they are small, under cfl and the warmer it is the less nutes they need.

The other issue is the fact that you transferred from soil to hydro, as you mentioned. If those plants spent any good amount of time growing in soil, then the roots would have developed very fine and extensive roots and root hairs, to seek out and absorb any trace of moisture in your container. These roots are not good when they are in a hydro situation. Overall, besides the burn spots, the plant looks overwatered, and that's because they are, for the type of root that developed. Hydro roots are thicker and developed for constant immersion. There are no root hairs. If these clones had been done from the beginning aero or wick cloned, then put in the drip, they would have fared much better, and your next round will. Back off on the drip, if you can. They don't need a flow, it's okay for them to be slightly moist in between drips.

Like Stitch and inflorescence suggested, I would run some plain ph adjusted water and fix the overwatering issue, then when the plants pick up ans produce good new growth, run half strength nutes until they get into flowering under more light, ideally HPS. Someone here with experience with hydro can give you a number, but I'm pretty sure 1800 is way high. Less is always more when growing the herb the first few times.

The plants may be switched to 12/12 flower any time you wish. The size of the plant at switch determines how much bud you will be able to grow in the end. Some plants don't stretch much at all, some plants double or more in size when finished. Sativas are tougher to grow inside if space and lighting are not optimum. They also take longer to finish, some may never finish without the equatorial sun. The key is to learn how long to veg to get a flowering plant(s) that maximize your grospace and particular environmentals, lighting, etc. You must also choose a strain that fits with you. I would recommend something easier for your first couple grows, then when your system is running smooth and you have some experience, a Kali Mist or Flo or Haze cross would be to your liking. Not sure what would be "easier", probably something more indica sided. I am growing Legends Ultimate Indica and it is a great stone, happy, kinda weighty, but not too much if you are seasoned, and the plant yields great, grows well, and is easy for me to grow in coco. Everyone loves the LUI! There is a hashy/musky/skunky pheno and a sweet/sugary/berry with lemonskunk undertone pheno. I am trying out 3 moms, 2 Ortega sided (hashy) and 1 Sweet Tooth pheno to determine the keeper(s).

Experience is key to success with growing and that takes time. There is much valuable resources here and plenty of cool peeps to help you out. Good luck and may you have great success.

 

[MynameStitch]

Nice one heady, I forgot to mention that about the soil to hydro conversion; very well explained! Very good informative post man!

 

[HeadyPete]

Why thank you very much.

 

[PaganTom]

Thank you, thank you all!
I forgot to mention in my last post that when I pulled the top pot of the drip system from the bottom, I found that my little guy had grown his roots through the bottom of the upper chamber in the last two weeks. Good news!

As to the nutrient / ppm ratio, lets see if I have this straight: lower ppm is good and to lower it, you give the plant less nutrients - right? Then how does the little guy grow?
Don't get me wrong, I'll try a reduced mixture... the direction on the mix says to use 1.5 tbs per gal, with the micro-nutrient mix suggesting 1 tsp per gal.
If you guys think I should just back off to say, 1/4 of this for a few weeks, let me know.

Secondly, if I am using a drip system powered by a small air pump, what would your recomendations be for an on/off schedual?
I've read conflicting reports with some saying it should be 2 on 4 off, etc..
I guess experimentation is best, but advice is always appreciated.

HeadyPete: great advice. As to temperature, I keep it about 73 degrees in the grow room, which is in the corner of a closet. The area measures about 3x3x6 and is well ventellated.
Given this sized space heat is an issue of course, thus the reason I chose 150w CFL instead of MH and HPS lights. It runs so very very cool, and I was thinking of adding another one hanging vertically to augment the first one before I go to the bloom cycle.

As to the little guy, he's growing pretty lush right now, and I'll get some new pix posted tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks once again to all!

 

[HeadyPete]

Well actually, you need to determine what ppm is good for your plant in your conditions. All strains eat differently, then add all the possible variables of setup, lighting, etc. and you see why you need to observe, take notes and build experience with your strains and garden.

PPM is the amount of nutes in the water solution. Always go half strength with any nute until you see how the plants like it. If the plant is showing lack of nutrients, you will see it and can compensate. You will probably see lack of nitrogen, which appears as a fading and yellowing of the leaves from bottom to top, as the plant takes nitrogen from the lower leaves to fuel new growth. When it is enough, they will grow nice and green and healthy, with a touch of tip burn on the leaves. When it is too much, you will see burns and blotches like you are getting. Back off the strength, and watch the plant. This assumes your ph is always correct. You must always start there. If that is out, nothing else will work until you correct it.

Run your crop with the CFLs, perfect the other factors, then look at a DIY air cooled 150 hps, for cheap, and prepare for bigger, harder buds than CFL. Hps is the best watts/lumens and the right colour for bloom. Make sure to switch the CFL bulbs to a warm white colour for flowering.

If your plant is doing better now, then the drip might be fine. I'd like to see some pics. Another possibility is that with the high nute solution, it was robbing your plant of moisture, making it look underwatered. When salt content in the solution is higher than in the plant, water will move from the plant, to the solution, and the plant will be effectively lacking water. This is how your lawn burns when you dump too much chem ferts on it by accident.