Mg def or N def/senescence?

[laszlokovacs]

P def can come from excess K, lack of Ca and B, too much Mg, not enough P... goes on. Ideally you would send some leaves to the lab and check for sure what is happening. With all those ferts you made just not have enough roots due to lack of Ca. That bloom boost should be anticipated at week 3 sometimes... Keep wanting to think your P/K ratio got out a whack. Seeing purple petioles?

Huh got it... I think either lack of Ca or P is the culprit based on the soil test i got at the beginning of the season. And no Im not really seeing any purple petioles on the plants with the yellow leaves... however a week ago when the temp dropped below 50 deg at night I noticed this purpling color on petioles/leaf margins on one plant that has 0 yellow leaves and when I looked it up i read that low temps can cause plants to have trouble with phosphorous uptake- is this what i would be seeing on the yellow leafed plants if there were purple petioles due to low P problems? Because I dont really see it on the plants with yellowing leaves.

I had really low P/K in my soil test though I think the P/K ratio may be out of whack but I would think i have more P than K... I have since added 3lbs total of both blood meal and bone meal, 6lbs or so of 3-4-4 garden tone, a couple lbs of jobes tomato food, 6 lbs of worm castings, 15lbs lime and 2lbs wood ash as well as 4lbs of guano spread across the 12 plants/planting area. Does this help give you a better idea of what is likely to be contributing to the P def? I attached a copy of my soil test from this season although of course it was before any amending... not sure if its helpful

 

[slownickel]

So, toxic with Mg, not enough Ca to the quantity of Mg, not enough potassium and shit for phosphorus.... mmmmm

 

[slownickel]

Huh got it... I think either lack of Ca or P is the culprit based on the soil test i got at the beginning of the season. And no Im not really seeing any purple petioles on the plants with the yellow leaves... however a week ago when the temp dropped below 50 deg at night I noticed this purpling color on petioles/leaf margins on one plant that has 0 yellow leaves and when I looked it up i read that low temps can cause plants to have trouble with phosphorous uptake- is this what i would be seeing on the yellow leafed plants if there were purple petioles due to low P problems? Because I dont really see it on the plants with yellowing leaves.
View attachment 18748422

I had really low P/K in my soil test though I think the P/K ratio may be out of whack but I would think i have more P than K... I have since added 3lbs total of both blood meal and bone meal, 6lbs or so of 3-4-4 garden tone, a couple lbs of jobes tomato food, 6 lbs of worm castings, 15lbs lime and 2lbs wood ash as well as 4lbs of guano spread across the 12 plants/planting area. Does this help give you a better idea of what is likely to be contributing to the P def? I attached a copy of my soil test from this season although of course it was before any amending... not sure if its helpful

And aluminum toxicity to boot. Dang.

 

[slownickel]

Ashes.. nono. Blood meal is pure iron. The iron plus the aluminum from where ever against that little bit of Mn, looks almost like virus. Oh, and there are the racing stripes, doubt they formed from the cold did they?

 

[Chunkypigs]

@Chunkypigs Yeah thanks for your help and patience as always. Just another first-timer freaking out at yellow leaves i guess. Fed a tiny bit with some N heavy nutes today on the Headstrong crosses and a splash on the cherry dragon. They definitely need a touch of nitrogen in early flower regardless but it seems a few plants are really asking for it. Bamboo stakes and twist ties good enough you think?


I know you really know your stuff so this seems a little odd to me. I just added 3-4 cups of bat guano to each plant within the past week along with 2 cups each of 3-4-4 garden-tone and watered each plant with a half-gallon of neptunes harvest 2-6-4. My soil tests at the beginning of the season showed low Phosphorus but I have added amendments with a particular focus on phosphorous since the beginning. I'm sure you have a better eye for identifying deficiencies than I do so if you say its a phosphorous def I believe you... However if this is the case I think it is due to too low pH as I have added ample phosphorous. Starting pH was 5.5 and have limed twice since the most recent time being 2 days ago. I was seeing a few brownish spots reminiscent of P def on larger fan leaves a few weeks ago but see fewer now.

I don't really know my stuff just starting to study it with others in a class and getting tests and responding.

I know that I don't know how to interpret leaves because I have no history of testing to inform all the years of funny leaves I've seen, just guesses based on crappy guides.

I know I have better weed since i started applying more Calcium(s) and when I started to balance the mircos my got way stinkier and flavor improved.

listen to slow and go buy some Triple Super Phosphate.

 

[slownickel]

Oh, do tell? What class?

 

[Chunkypigs]

Ashes.. nono. Blood meal is pure iron. The iron plus the aluminum from where ever against that little bit of Mn, looks almost like virus. Oh, and there are the racing stripes, doubt they formed from the cold did they?

so how many ppms of Ca would you target? take it over 2000? higher?

where his test is now without any figures for Na.

 

[Chunkypigs]

Oh, do tell? What class?

the Crescive Soil balancing masterclass.

Crescive Soil

www.crescivesoil.org

you probably wouldn't dig it as they use Ideal soil as a text and Logan but I think it's the only option out there for people like me who want to learn about the math and see real life examples as 16 students get tests done and work together in study groups coming up with soil recs for each other.

most of the people in the class are growing weed and they have a private forum that goes with the class so it's quite helpful to see actual results, the soil tests, the minerals added, the differences between the folks who use sulfates compared to those who can afford chelated minerals to balance with, etc.

 

[Chunkypigs]

Huh got it... I think either lack of Ca or P is the culprit based on the soil test i got at the beginning of the season. And no Im not really seeing any purple petioles on the plants with the yellow leaves... however a week ago when the temp dropped below 50 deg at night I noticed this purpling color on petioles/leaf margins on one plant that has 0 yellow leaves and when I looked it up i read that low temps can cause plants to have trouble with phosphorous uptake- is this what i would be seeing on the yellow leafed plants if there were purple petioles due to low P problems? Because I dont really see it on the plants with yellowing leaves.
View attachment 18748422

I had really low P/K in my soil test though I think the P/K ratio may be out of whack but I would think i have more P than K... I have since added 3lbs total of both blood meal and bone meal, 6lbs or so of 3-4-4 garden tone, a couple lbs of jobes tomato food, 6 lbs of worm castings, 15lbs lime and 2lbs wood ash as well as 4lbs of guano spread across the 12 plants/planting area. Does this help give you a better idea of what is likely to be contributing to the P def? I attached a copy of my soil test from this season although of course it was before any amending... not sure if its helpful

many people think the purple in this picture is caused by a virus that is carried by insects. I see it every year here and there but it has never completely taken over my plants, it's a strange thing for certain and we are pretty close to each other distance wise...

 

[laszlokovacs]

And aluminum toxicity to boot. Dang.

dang is right. When I first got my results I thought the soil was pretty crappy lol guess my instinct was right. I thought aluminum tox was more of a problem for low pH which im hoping can be mitigated by raising to more ideal levels. Not sure what you mean by racing stripes... but yeah not cold related as it hasnt really been cold. Other than adding Ca and P/K there is nothing i can do about the toxicities right?

Triple super phosphates getting scooped up tomorrow! Great rec thanks

 

[laszlokovacs]

many people think the purple in this picture is caused by a virus that is carried by insects. I see it every year here and there but it has never completely taken over my plants, it's a strange thing for certain and we are pretty close to each other distance wise...

Weird... this is all new to me as I'm sure you know... I thought it was purpling from cold temps at first but there is a bug in the picture on the growth tip. I could be tripping but I swear i looked for the purple color in the same spot a few days later and couldnt find it.

 

[Chunkypigs]

3#'s of Triple super phosphate should raise your 200 square foot plot with a bulk density of 0.82 150 ppms.
1.6#'s of Potassium sulfate will get you to 240 ppms
15#'s of ag lime would raise your Ca to 2000 ppms

you should be fine top dressing that on your patch now and work it in better after harvest and get another test and see what's up.

this would bring you close to the base sat figures slow aims for.

 

[YellowCanaryConsulting]

Those leaves gave up the ghost after being pk deficient for 40 days or so. Those dots are pools of sugars that couldn't be removed. Once you fuck a leaf over with -P or -K, it's done, toast. What the internet growers consider "natural fade" these days. Yall be flushing ALL the nutes out, about 7 weeks early.. I watch people's plants go from green to blue, and they never bat an eye...

many people think the purple in this picture is caused by a virus that is carried by insects. I see it every year here and there but it has never completely taken over my plants, it's a strange thing for certain and we are pretty close to each other distance wise...

Tell me you got the Corona without telling me. All I got was to submit paperwork agreeing not to treat humans with the fertilizer I purchased between 2019 and 2021. Odd..

Scott Skammers loves his tapwater and extraordinary EC. For some reason. I guess just a little disease here and there won't hurt. You should've went with Kind Harvest.

 

[laszlokovacs]

Did i just have a stroke or does the second half of your message make zero sense?

 

[slownickel]

the Crescive Soil balancing masterclass.

Crescive Soil

www.crescivesoil.org

you probably wouldn't dig it as they use Ideal soil as a text and Logan but I think it's the only option out there for people like me who want to learn about the math and see real life examples as 16 students get tests done and work together in study groups coming up with soil recs for each other.

most of the people in the class are growing weed and they have a private forum that goes with the class so it's quite helpful to see actual results, the soil tests, the minerals added, the differences between the folks who use sulfates compared to those who can afford chelated minerals to balance with, etc.

Even my dear dead friend astera would choke on that mix. If that mix is loose, those numbers are way off.

 

[Chunkypigs]

Even my dear dead friend astera would choke on that mix. If that mix is loose, those numbers are way off.

it's 200 square feet of native soil in a field with a bulk density of 0.82, what do you suggest?

 

[VenerableHippie]

@Chunkypigs Yeah thanks for your help and patience as always. Just another first-timer freaking out at yellow leaves i guess. Fed a tiny bit with some N heavy nutes today on the Headstrong crosses and a splash on the cherry dragon. They definitely need a touch of nitrogen in early flower regardless but it seems a few plants are really asking for it. Bamboo stakes and twist ties good enough you think?


I know you really know your stuff so this seems a little odd to me. I just added 3-4 cups of bat guano to each plant within the past week along with 2 cups each of 3-4-4 garden-tone and watered each plant with a half-gallon of neptunes harvest 2-6-4. My soil tests at the beginning of the season showed low Phosphorus but I have added amendments with a particular focus on phosphorous since the beginning. I'm sure you have a better eye for identifying deficiencies than I do so if you say its a phosphorous def I believe you... However if this is the case I think it is due to too low pH as I have added ample phosphorous. Starting pH was 5.5 and have limed twice since the most recent time being 2 days ago. I was seeing a few brownish spots reminiscent of P def on larger fan leaves a few weeks ago but see fewer now.

Google "Mullers Chart". You may see that a surplus of one element may cause a shortage of another. anyway probably interesting to know ... cheers!

 

[laszlokovacs]

Google "Mullers Chart". You may see that a surplus of one element may cause a shortage of another. anyway probably interesting to know ... cheers!

Interesting thank you for sharing, if anything a great reference for the future! According to Mulder's chart a surplus of iron can impede the uptake of Phosphorous. As slownickel pointed out, blood meal is super high in iron. I added pretty much the exact same amount of amendments to all of the plants even though some were taller/older than others at the time. Wondering if maybe I hit some of those with a little too much blood meal for the plant to manage and is causing issues with phosphorous? (Although if thats the case I wouldnt expect the plants to display what looks like a slight N def...)

In any case the plants all absolutely need Phosphorous and Potassium regardless of what is wrong with any particular plant. Hopefully the Triple Super Phosphate/Potassium Sulfate will be here within the next week. I bought some alaska fish morbloom 0-10-10 last week that Ill start using tomorrow in the meantime in addition to the biweekly feedings of neptune's harvest rose and flowerin 2-6-4.

Not expecting anything crazy as this is my first time outdoors and second time growing photoperiods so Ive been expecting some failures from the get-go. Still, besides differences between cultivars and planting times/areas, cant seem to pinpoint exactly why some appear to be so much happier/healthier/more vigorous than the others. No doubt they will love the coming P/K additions but Itd be nice if they were all like these lol- even the tiny middle plant (AJSD x 91Chem) seems happier and it was popped at the very end of june.

 

[Creeperpark]

Don't add fertilizer to your plants because you have added plenty slow release amendments to carry you through flowering already. Just set back and let your plants do what they do best. If you want to stimulate phosphorous and potassium just feed the microbes some table sugar and they will take care of it. Mulch your plants with the native grass in the area and sit back and relax friend. Enjoy Mother Nature. They'll give you what you want with what they got.

 

[laszlokovacs]

Don't add fertilizer to your plants because you have added plenty slow release amendments to carry you through flowering already. Just set back and let your plants do what they do best. If you want to stimulate phosphorous and potassium just feed the microbes some table sugar and they will take care of it. Mulch your plants with the native grass in the area and sit back and relax friend. Enjoy Mother Nature. They'll give you what you want with what they got.

How long roughly do slow release amendments take to become available to the plants? I added them a good 8 days ago or so...
That was the thought process behind adding them- that they would be able to sustain the plants alone for the next month and a half or so till harvest. You gave me the tip about the sugar awhile back- so I already added about a tbsp of turbinado sugar to each plant about a month ago and watered with a nute mix+molasses about 2 or so weeks ago. Mulched them a couple days ago as well .

I watered this morning with morbloom- didnt see your message... in any case the purpling on the petioles of about a third of the plants seems too extreme/widespread to simply be genetics. They look like they're crying out for phosphorous in some cases so I thought the water soluble P/K was neccessary. If you look very closely at the smallest plant in the picture of mine chunky reposted you can see a slight purpling of the stems- it has since become more pronounced suggesting the phosphorous deficieny has has increased since then. (Different plant pictured below but the worst purpling of the bunch)

I wont have the TSP/K2SO4 in hand or be around my plants for at least a good week+. I would definitely say I am concerned about the possibility of over fertilization so I will reevaluate when and how I want to add it in about a week or two. However based on the soil test results I would expect the need to supplement a great deal of P+K so it will likely make its way into the plot's soil either during flower or after harvest depending on how they seem. If I end up deciding to do so after harvest I will get another soil test before hand. Either way I will probably retest after harvest.

You're probably right I need to relax a bit lol.