Mg def or N def/senescence?

[laszlokovacs]

Hey all, not sure whats going on here would love a second opinon, plants are all in the ground and for the most part have been treated the same- majority all planted at the same time. Soil is rather acidic (5.5ph at soil test) but have limed once 1 month plus and again yesterday. Top dressed plants with combinations of blood meal, bone meal, garden-tone, worm castings, small amount of wood ash, and bat guano over the past 2-3 months. Have watered plants with well water (8+ ph) occasionally but infrequently and with neptunes harvest and some miracle grow. Just switched over to neptunes harvest rose and flowering for the most recent watering a couple days ago. Most plants are flowering now about a few weeks in but still early flower so Im not sure about senescence. Been a super dry season so very little water this year. Oddly enough the plants in one row on the right are doing amazingly and seem to show almost zero yellow leaves (tallest plant especially) but have all been treated/fed similarly.

Examples of late stage affected leaves- only lowers affected

Most affected Plants (no. 1 cherry dragon no.2 Headstrong x blurryface)

Almost completely unaffected plant- (only including because of spots nearby yellow leaf, can anyone identify these spots?)

Rest of plants- Im probably being obsessive as for the most part these plants are fine but would like to know what is going on with the yellowing and if i need to feed them) largest of all my plants is completely green head to toe and at least 7.5 feet tall, cant seem to understand why some are doing so much better than others.

 

[Cerathule]

The yellowing is a nitrogen-deficiency

 

[laszlokovacs]

The yellowing is a nitrogen-deficiency

Yes thank you! I got thrown off by the brown dots on the dead leaves and the fact others plants are doing so much bettr- overthought it too much, clear N deficiency i think you're right! Possible that the drought has made it worse, it rained today so thankfully the plants got some nitrate from the rainwater. I watered 5 days ago with a 2-6-4 even foliar fed in the past week with fish emulsion LAB and molasses... I guess that wasnt enough nitrogen, will hit them with a 3/4 strength 24-8-16 watersoluble feed tomorrow morning, probably a 1/2-1 gallon per plant.

 

[VenerableHippie]

Outdoor grower here. I have had those spots. Something not quite right in soil but still had good results. Don't worry.

Those yellowing leaves aren't needed by the plant any longer. This is typical of an outdoor grow. (Well happens to mine about yr stage of flowering.) So it's like senescence.

Yes, it is a nitrogen shortage of a sort. Because the plant doesn't need those leaves any more it shifts the nutrients to the flowers. But added N won't fix the yellowing ...

Back to the spots ... try an application of Ca. Maybe you could put a tea spoon of hydrated lime in a bucket of water and foliar spray the plants. You'll get quick results that way. Don't put in more than a tea spoon!

A quick way to correct yr ph is to water onto the soil a mix of hydrated lime at one tablespoon per bucket of water.

 

[Creeperpark]

You just need to mulch your plants and not put anything on them. . The plant that's losing yellow leaves is from water and heat stress. If you put a bunch of organic fertilizers on your plant now trying to boost nitrogen, you will mess up your flowering. Those plants are stretching making room for flowers and if you put veg food on the plant the plant tries to stay in veg. The plants above have enough stored nutrients just in the leaves to make easy.

IF you have to put something helpful on your plants just use plain sugar and sprinkle a little around the base of the plants under the mulch to feed the microbes. .

 

[laszlokovacs]

Yeah your spot on soil isnt great but very much workable. Im glad you mentioned Calcium as that was kinda my first instinct as the yellowing is somewhat expected at this stage. I got a soil test earlier in the year and Calcium levels were certainly below ideal levels along with a few other things.

Thanks for sharing those techniques, will definitely put them to use at some point. 2 days ago I did just add about 1.5 cups of lime scattered around each plants rootzone so I will not foliar/water in any more lime right now.

I may not end up adding much if any N to the majority of plants. I just checked and according to the breeder Headstrong is very demanding of N even in flower so maybe I will only hit those with extra N.

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Most affected Plants (no. 1 cherry dragon no.2 Headstrong x blurryface)

I recognize those strains! How has your experience with 7 East Genetics been?

I recently dusted a few plants with some watermelon dragon pollen.

 

[laszlokovacs]

You just need to mulch your plants and not put anything on them. . The plant that's losing yellow leaves is from water and heat stress. If you put a bunch of organic fertilizers on your plant now trying to boost nitrogen, you will mess up your flowering. Those plants are stretching making room for flowers and if you put veg food on the plant the plant tries to stay in veg. The plants above have enough stored nutrients just in the leaves to make easy.

IF you have to put something helpful on your plants just use plain sugar and sprinkle a little around the base of the plants under the mulch to feed the microbes. .

Hahahaha I just read a couple threads on nute deficiencies and read this same advice from yourself and it stuck out to me as something I should probably do. I think you may be correct, the bigger plants are (on the right side) east facing and I think the angle of the sun is much more intense on the bare ground for the plants on the left which would explain it. Also been a drought almost all summer, that isn't helping things at all

 

[laszlokovacs]

I recognize those strains! How has your experience with 7 East Genetics been?

I recently dusted a few plants with some watermelon dragon pollen.

Honestly? Amazing? Not really sure I can accurately judge as this is essentially my first real grow and first time outdoors but so far very happy. I don't even remember how or why I found 7east but Its virtually all Im growing this year 14 plants total, 13 bred by 7east. I couldn't be happier tbh, i popped 10 seeds of 5 different strains and 9 turned out female- 9!!!!!!! I have Grape Dragon, Cherry Dragon, Palestinian Princess, The Kraken, God's Plan B, and Headstrong x Blurryface growing in the pics and 2x Drunken Bastard ladies growing in my vegetable garden. Grape Dragon is well over 7ft tall and around half are 5.5 feet or taller. Only plants that turned out bad were the Palestinian Princesses but not sure why, clearly something I did as they were some of the best growing indoors before I brought them out... Oh well theyre ok just small.

Almost bought that watermelon dragon- had a hard time choosing strains a lot of them looked decent. What'd you think? I like their stuff especially the mutants but major noob here so not a lot of basis for comparison

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Honestly? Amazing? Not really sure I can accurately judge as this is essentially my first real grow and first time outdoors but so far very happy. I don't even remember how or why I found 7east but Its virtually all Im growing this year 14 plants total, 13 bred by 7east. I couldn't be happier tbh, i popped 10 seeds of 5 different strains and 9 turned out female- 9!!!!!!! I have Grape Dragon, Cherry Dragon, Palestinian Princess, The Kraken, God's Plan B, and Headstrong x Blurryface growing in the pics and 2x Drunken Bastard ladies growing in my vegetable garden. Grape Dragon is well over 7ft tall and around half are 5.5 feet or taller. Only plants that turned out bad were the Palestinian Princesses but not sure why, clearly something I did as they were some of the best growing indoors before I brought them out... Oh well theyre ok just small.

Almost bought that watermelon dragon- had a hard time choosing strains a lot of them looked decent. What'd you think? I like their stuff especially the mutants but major noob here so not a lot of basis for comparison

I have a few sativas going this summer and I was trying to cross them all with a male DJ Short Flo, but the male had flowers but no pollen. So I started googling pollen for sale. I ran into a few dead ends, but then I ran across 7 East. I used to grow and post on reddit and I had previously ran into a few growers and hash makers using 7 east gear. Beautiful plants, purple trichomes. Then I looked into watermelon dragons lineage, Harti Gear Green Dragon x Blueberry Trainwreck, and then a bunch of Sangria from aficionado that has a bunch of Thai and 1-2% thcv. I’ve seen videos of 7 East sorta torture testing plants plants in the Canadian Winter, I figured for a few dollars, I could make a cross and run them in the winter when my basement is coldest.

Your plants look healthy, Id say they definitely got a little drier than they wanted, and the plant just scavenged resources from the bottom fans. A little stress like that can encourage a plant to kick in her defense mechanism, Thc and trichomes are not the actual fruit of the plant, its just trying to make seeds.

@Creeperpark is spot on, a little mulch around the base of the plant, maybe a nice little watering. You start pumping Nitrogen now and your gonna be hating life come trim time.

 

[Chunkypigs]

new growers freak at the first yellow leaves they see, nothing to stress on.

plants need N in flower as well as veg. I put down 45ppms of N last week as flower takes off, Chicken pellets and insect frass, with 400 ppms of Ca from Gypsum and Aragonite and 100 ppms of K sulfate, 50ppms P from TSP, 100 ppms S that comes along in the Gypsum and K sulfate. mixed these with Kelp, Alfalfa meal and worm castings which also added a bit more NPK but also micro nutes and food for the biology. all applied as a top dress before we had rains.

I have 35 clones running and different seeds going and one soil doesn't keep them all ideal

this is a Runtz showing some yellowing of fan leaves on bottom last week around the time I top dressed, only 20% of the plants are doing this and at the transition to flower it is pretty common outdoors, some of my girls have fans like that that have completely dried and shriveled already.

nothing to worry about when it's a small percentage of the overall plant like you showed.
I've got strains that are deep green and others that are a touch yellow. I might top dress something very available like blood meal on the plants that show hungry but it's not a big deal because I'm feeding and testing to see what my starting point is.

Chem D is the cultivar yellowing worst this season, here she is before getting defoliated and you can see the Mac 1 on the left very happy with a couple yellow on the bottom.

your plants look fine, keep up what you are doing but get them supported ASAP, stakes at the minimum.

 

[VenerableHippie]

new growers freak at the first yellow leaves they see, nothing to stress on.

plants need N in flower as well as veg.

One week I foliar spray and water onto soil N + trace elements + kelp

Then alternate week I foliar spray high-K Kelp

These are not high doses, more like constant ...

I do this throughout the life of the plant and up until close to end of flowering.

This is in addition to animal manures dug into soil, humates, rock potash and accurate pH.

Average around 3 pounds each.

 

[Ca++]

The yellow leaf, is not a healthy leaf. The spots we see, and curling, are attacks from mold

I don't see a lot of the pics, as my browser times out. Very slow connection..

 

[slownickel]

That is a phosphorus deficiency...

 

[Ca++]

That is a phosphorus deficiency...

Are you choosing P because of the spots.
I know the curling away is attack, but wish I had poised longer on my thoughts regarding the spots. The very same one's show time and time again, which leads more to the idea of insoluble compounds forming as the leaf dies.

Pages full of pics rarely load fully for me. So I can't see even half of them. I know N then Mg are going to get called out first, but P signs are not well catalogued. Though I can see this N like fade, that's not showing so strongly from the tip, and has these splotches I'm very familiar with outdoors. One pic does look a bit of an odd green overall. That blue tint we are often guided to look for.

Any guidance would be appreciated. I know not all plants display the same anyway, but do see this set of signs as it's own thing. Not mold?

 

[laszlokovacs]

@Chunkypigs Yeah thanks for your help and patience as always. Just another first-timer freaking out at yellow leaves i guess. Fed a tiny bit with some N heavy nutes today on the Headstrong crosses and a splash on the cherry dragon. They definitely need a touch of nitrogen in early flower regardless but it seems a few plants are really asking for it. Bamboo stakes and twist ties good enough you think?

That is a phosphorus deficiency...

I know you really know your stuff so this seems a little odd to me. I just added 3-4 cups of bat guano to each plant within the past week along with 2 cups each of 3-4-4 garden-tone and watered each plant with a half-gallon of neptunes harvest 2-6-4. My soil tests at the beginning of the season showed low Phosphorus but I have added amendments with a particular focus on phosphorous since the beginning. I'm sure you have a better eye for identifying deficiencies than I do so if you say its a phosphorous def I believe you... However if this is the case I think it is due to too low pH as I have added ample phosphorous. Starting pH was 5.5 and have limed twice since the most recent time being 2 days ago. I was seeing a few brownish spots reminiscent of P def on larger fan leaves a few weeks ago but see fewer now.

 

[xet]

It's that time of year - calcium - Gypsum for the calcium and sulfur to increase terpenes during flower.

 

[slownickel]

@Chunkypigs Yeah thanks for your help and patience as always. Just another first-timer freaking out at yellow leaves i guess. Fed a tiny bit with some N heavy nutes today on the Headstrong crosses and a splash on the cherry dragon. They definitely need a touch of nitrogen in early flower regardless but it seems a few plants are really asking for it. Bamboo stakes and twist ties good enough you think?


I know you really know your stuff so this seems a little odd to me. I just added 3-4 cups of bat guano to each plant within the past week along with 2 cups each of 3-4-4 garden-tone and watered each plant with a half-gallon of neptunes harvest 2-6-4. My soil tests at the beginning of the season showed low Phosphorus but I have added amendments with a particular focus on phosphorous since the beginning. I'm sure you have a better eye for identifying deficiencies than I do so if you say its a phosphorous def I believe you... However if this is the case I think it is due to too low pH as I have added ample phosphorous. Starting pH was 5.5 and have limed twice since the most recent time being 2 days ago. I was seeing a few brownish spots reminiscent of P def on larger fan leaves a few weeks ago but see fewer now.

P def can come from excess K, lack of Ca and B, too much Mg, not enough P... goes on. Ideally you would send some leaves to the lab and check for sure what is happening. With all those ferts you made just not have enough roots due to lack of Ca. That bloom boost should be anticipated at week 3 sometimes... Keep wanting to think your P/K ratio got out a whack. Seeing purple petioles?

 

[slownickel]

Are you choosing P because of the spots.
I know the curling away is attack, but wish I had poised longer on my thoughts regarding the spots. The very same one's show time and time again, which leads more to the idea of insoluble compounds forming as the leaf dies.

Pages full of pics rarely load fully for me. So I can't see even half of them. I know N then Mg are going to get called out first, but P signs are not well catalogued. Though I can see this N like fade, that's not showing so strongly from the tip, and has these splotches I'm very familiar with outdoors. One pic does look a bit of an odd green overall. That blue tint we are often guided to look for.

Any guidance would be appreciated. I know not all plants display the same anyway, but do see this set of signs as it's own thing. Not mold?

See those brown breakdowns on those leaves? That eating across the veins? There ya go pal. Does the same in lots of crops. You should see pineapples!

 

[Chunkypigs]

P def can come from excess K, lack of Ca and B, too much Mg, not enough P... goes on. Ideally you would send some leaves to the lab and check for sure what is happening. With all those ferts you made just not have enough roots due to lack of Ca. That bloom boost should be anticipated at week 3 sometimes... Keep wanting to think your P/K ratio got out a whack. Seeing purple petioles?

here's his soil test. he's over 1 ppm on his P, not too far from that 4ppm optimum is it https://www.icmag.com/threads/advic...nd-bush-guerilla-friendly-nutrients.18123266/

https://www.icmag.com/attachments/screen-shot-2022-06-24-at-2-31-59-pm-png.18726056/