Marijuana & (versus) tobacco

[StayHigh149]

Ok, I gotta type this quickly so the thoughts may be random. I gotta get ready for work.

Last week, I woke up totally pissed off about the effects of tobacco & went on an hour "rant" to my wife (she does not smoke anything) about the evilness of tobacco & how marijuana is a better alternative. Now, I smoke cigs (20 yrs) & can't seem to kick them permanetly. I have quit for 9 months at the logesnt point & then I saw a guy at work with a Newport & "bummed" one & fell back into the trap again. Isn't tobacco chemically treated to make it addictive? I do realize that tobacco is big business & the industry has many lobbyists in DC. I say that tobacco cigs should be illegal & marijuana cigs should be legal.

Marijuana is a pure plant & IS NOT addictive. I have been "without" any weed for approx a month now, due to lack of availibility. I was a daily enjoyer of Cannabis until that point. I cannot go more than a 1/2 day without craving a cig, but I can go a long time without weed. When I try to quit cigs I become grouchy & irratable but that is not the case with weed. I believe that shows the addictive nature of cigs.

If tobacco is a pure plant (before chemicals are added) & marijuana is the same, a pure & natural growing plant.....how can 1 be legal & not the other?

I want badly to quit cigs & have tried many times but cannot totally kick the addiction. Tobacco is evil, marijuana is not. I'm sure that the tobacco industry does not want to see Marijuana legalized cuz they realize that most smokers would probably smoke weed over tobacco EVERYTIME. I'm sure that the tobacco industry is one of the major reasons that marijuana is still considered to be illegal in most places in the U.S.

Anyway, just random thoughts & a rant from a weed smoker that is pissed about a cigarette addiction.

 

[Nikijad4210]

I thought there was a strain of tobacco with naturally high levels of nicotine in it? Or maybe I just read something wrong somewhere?.....

 

[Silver Bullet]

Tobacco is addictive before anything is added. It probably wouldn't matter much anyways from a legal perspective.

Cigarettes would be impossible to outlaw because so many people are addicted.

 

[robobond]

I belive nicotina rustica has the highest amount of natural nicotine in it. Did anyone here know that nicotine is actually a poison rather than a drug. One teaspoon is enough to kill a room full of people and then some. Marijuana being illegal has more to do with social then medical.

 

[Guest]

I don't know why people call tobacco evil and praise marijuana when they both have their wonderful qualities.

Who should be blamed is the bad growers who use anything in the growing stages to turn a profit and the corporations who add crazy things to the tobacco BUT blaming the actual tobacco and saying it should be banned is wrong.

Also, I wonder why some people like me can smoke tobacco for days and months
yet not get addicted or feel the need to smoke some but others can't.

I read somewhere that addiction might be a caus of low glucose levels in the brain as well as neurotransitters and taking dugs, in this case tobacco, releases these neurotransmitters and therefore gives the user a feeling of being normal whereas someone who has a lot of glucose and neurotransmitters will experience the enjoyment and can walk away from the drug with having cravings because they already have enough chemicals in their brain to keep them stable when the drug isn't around.

That's just a little food for thought. Peace.

 

[robobond]

Drugs such as tobacco, alcohol and cocaine among others all affect the dopamine receptors in the brain. The dopamine repceptors are the brains rewards system and upon taking the drugs more dopamine is released than usual. When the body is deprieved you get symptoms of addiction. Most addiction are caused by this dopamine neurotransmitter. Marijuana however has no effect on the dopamine re-uptake in the body therefore no real addiction ever develops. Same goes with other drugs that dont effect the dopamine re-uptake such as LSD, mushrooms and even ecstacy which effects serotonin and results in depression rather than a real addiction.

 

[buffman24]

I do agree with the fact that nicotine is extremely addictive and I was just wondering if anyone out there has done any research on the addictive effects of the combination of tobacco and marijuana in joints? Although I do not smoke cigarettes, I add tobacco to my joints. Personally, I find pure marijuana joints too harsh to smoke so I always add tobacco. But I believe this makes me crave my marijuana joints a heck of a lot more. Furthermore, does anyone know if the harmful effects from tobacco are worsened in tobacco-marijuana joints because there is no functional filter???

-Buffman24

 

[Guest]

robobond marijuana does effect dopamine neurons BUT I feel the reason why natural substances in WHOLE form doesn't cause as much problems as synthetic is because they have more chemicals that buffer each other and therefore lower the risk to become addictive BUT from personal experience and from an article I read, I do believe diet which has a slow release of carbs which keeps glucose levels balanced as well as having a good amount of neurotransmitters present from eating a good amount of protein from meat or beans, keeps one from becoming addictive to things such as tobacco easily.

Also, when it comes to different neurotransmitters being effected by cannabis we have to take into account the terpenoids which have been shown to release serotonin as well as dopamine which is another reason why some herbs give their effect regardless of being an indica or sativa. Peace.

Article on dopamine and cannabis:

http://www.druglibrary.org/crl/behavior/french-01.pdf

 

[StayHigh149]

Wow, y'all got wwwwaaaayyyyyy scientific on me...LoL. ALOT of good info tho!!

I did not mean tobacco is evil, I meant cigs are evil. Tobacco is natural, just like marijuana. It the tobacco companies that add all of the chemicals.

buffman24, do urself a favor & stop puttin tobacco in ur joints!!! I highly encourage ALL people that do not currentlyy smoke cigs...to never pick one up!

 

[buckeye-leaf]

Worst thing about tobacco is the way it makes you smell and that awful morning cough! My friend has been smoking cigs for maybe 13 years now and every morning he wakes up you know he is up because he is coughing and hacking loud as can be. On the other hand when i wake up I dont cough unless I take a long bong rip.

 

[NiteTiger]

Nicotine is an alkaloid found in the nightshade family of plants (Solanaceae), predominantly in tobacco, and in lower quantities in tomato, potato, eggplant (aubergine), and green pepper. Nicotine alkaloids are also found in the leaves of the coca plant. Nicotine constitutes 0.3 to 5% of the tobacco plant by dry weight, with biosynthesis taking place in the roots, and accumulates in the leaves. It is a potent neurotoxin and is included in many insecticides.

The LD50 (median lethal dose) of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 40–60 mg can be a lethal dosage for adult human beings. This makes it an extremely deadly poison. It is more toxic than many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has a lethal dose of 1000 mg.

Think I'm gonna quit smoking now.

 

[mriko]

yup, a 60mg drop of pure nicotine on the skin, and you're finished !

Please please, stop blaming the tobacco ! This plant is a teacher plant, THE MAIN AND MOST USED teacher plant on the whole American continent. It is not a plant made for smoking all day long, at any time. Western society have totally distorted the use of tobacco, and tobacco itself. What is in the cigs is an erzats of tobacco, I mean, tobacco is entheogen, as are cannabis, mushrooms, peyote or ayahuasca.

I smoke tobacco, for hash joints, and for cigs or pipes as well. I really like tobacco, but wish I would smoke even less than I do, and most important to have better quality one ! that's why I want to grow some next year http://www.tobaccoseed.co.uk/index.htm

Why are you blaming the tobacco ? It's another very great of God's creation ! such as cannabis ! You can blame the corps, for selling us bad quality, chemical-laden, radioactive-ferts-fed tobacco, this for sure. But don't blame tobacco for your addiction please. Would people use it the way it should be used(as a teacher plant) and with the way of life that fits to it, there wouldn't be so much health problems. Our own distorted use of it turned it into addictive plant.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/tobacco/tobacco.shtml


Irie !

 

[robobond]

robobond marijuana does effect dopamine neurons BUT I feel the reason why natural substances in WHOLE form doesn't cause as much problems as synthetic is because they have more chemicals that buffer each other and therefore lower the risk to become addictive BUT from personal experience and from an article I read, I do believe diet which has a slow release of carbs which keeps glucose levels balanced as well as having a good amount of neurotransmitters present from eating a good amount of protein from meat or beans, keeps one from becoming addictive to things such as tobacco easily.

Also, when it comes to different neurotransmitters being effected by cannabis we have to take into account the terpenoids which have been shown to release serotonin as well as dopamine which is another reason why some herbs give their effect regardless of being an indica or sativa. Peace.

Article on dopamine and cannabis:

http://www.druglibrary.org/crl/behavior/french-01.pdf

The effects of mariuana has nothing to do with the release of dopamine or seretonin. It has to do with the thc in all types of marijuana binding to animide receptors in your brain. Anadamide is the "bliss" receptor repsponsible for almost all of cannabis effects. THC mimics this chemical and binds into the receptor creating the same effect though more intense because you flood all your receptors. The other things responsible are the particular location of these cannibinoid receptors on the brain and what makes sativas different from indicas is the ratio of other cannabinoids other than thc.

Here's an article that explains in full. Id post the link but I lost it.

RECEPTORS IN THE BRAIN

The locations of the cannabinoid receptors are most revealing of the way THC acts on the brain, but the importance of this determination is best understood in comparison with the effects of other drugs on the brain. Neurons are brain cells which process information. Neurotransmitter chemicals enable them to communicate with each other by their release into the gap between the neurons. This gap is called the synapse. Receptors are actually proteins in neurons which are specific to neurotransmitters, and which turn various cellular mechanisms on or off. Neurons can have thousands of receptors for different neurotransmitters, causing any neurotransmitter to have diverse effects in the brain. Drugs affect the production, release or re-uptake (a regulating mechanism) of various neurotransmitters. They also mimic or block actions of neurotransmitters, and can interfere with or enhance the mechanisms associated with the receptor. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter which is associated with extremely pleasurable sensations, so that the neural systems which trigger dopamine release are known as the "brain reward system." The key part of this system is identified as the mesocorticolimbic pathway, which links the dopamine-production area with the nucleus of accumbens in the limbic system, an area of the brain which is associated with the control of emotion and behavior. Cocaine, for example, blocks the re-uptake of dopamine so that the brain, lacking biofeedback, keeps on producing it. Amphetamines also block the re-uptake of dopamine, and stimulate additional production and release of it. Opiates activate neural pathways that increase dopamine production by mimicking opioid-peptide neurotransmitters which increase dopamine activity in the ventral tegmental area of the brain where the neurotransmitter originates. Opiates work on three receptor sites, and in effect restrain an inhibitory amino acid, gamma-aminobutyric acid, that otherwise would slow down or halt dopamine production. All of these substances can produce strong reinforcing properties that can seriously influence behavior. The rewarding properties of dopamine are what accounts for animal studies in which animals will forgo food and drink or willingly experience electric shocks in order to stimulate the brain reward system. It is now widely held that drugs of abuse directly or indirectly affect the brain reward system. The key clinical test of whether a substance is a drug of abuse potential or not is whether administration of the drug reduces the amount of electrical stimulation needed to produce self-stimulation response, or dopamine production. This is an indication that a drug has reinforcing properties, and that an individual's use of the drug can lead to addictive and other harmful behavior. To be precise, according to the Office of Technological Assessment (OTA): "The capacity to produce reinforcing effects is essential to any drug with significant abuse potential." Marijuana should no longer be considered a serious drug abuse because, as summarized by the OTA: "Animals will not self-administer THC in controlled studies . . . . Cannabinoids generally do not lower the threshold needed to get animals to self-stimulate the brain regard system, as do other drugs of abuse." Marijuana does not produce reinforcing effects. The definitive experiment which measures drug-induced dopamine production utilizes microdialysis is live, freely-moving rats. Brain microdialysis has proven that opiates, cocaine, amphetamines, nicotine and alcohol all affect dopamine production, whereas marijuana does not. This latest research confirms and explains Hollister's 1986 conclusion about cannabis and addiction: "Physical dependence is rarely encountered in the usual patterns, despite some degree of tolerance that may develop." Most important, the discoveries of Howlett and Devane, Herkenham and their associates demonstrate that the cannabinoid receptors do not influence the dopamine reward system.

CANNABINOID RECEPTORS

Research has enabled scientists to know which portions of the brain control various body functions, and this knowledge has been used to explain the pharmacological properties of drugs that activate receptor sites in the brain. There is a dense concentration of cannabinoid binding sites in the basal ganglia and the cerebellum of the base-brain, both of which affect movement and coordination. This discovery will aid in determining the actual physical mechanism by which THC affects spasticity and provides therapeutic benefits to patients with multiple sclerosis and other spastic disorders. While there are cannabinoid receptors in the ventromedial striatum and basal ganglia which are areas associated with dopamine production, no cannabinoid receptors have been found in dopamine-producing neurons, and as mentioned above, no reinforcing properties have been demonstrated in animal studies. There is one study by Gardner and Lowinson, involving inbred Lewis rats, in which doses of THC lowered the amount of electrical stimulation required to trigger the brain reward system. However, no one has been able to replicate the results with any other species of rat, or any other animal. The finding is believed to be the result of some inbred genetic variation in the inbred species, and is both widely mentioned in the literature and disregarded. According to Herkenham and his associates, "There are virtually no reports of fatal cannabis overdose in humans. The safety reflects the paucity of receptors in medullary nuclei that mediate respiratory and cardiovascular functions." This is also why cannabinoids have great promise as analgesics or painkillers, in that they do not depress the function of the heart or the lungs. In this respect, they are far superior to opiates, which decrease the entire physiological system because the receptors are all over the medulla as well as the brain. Marijuana is distinguished from most other illicit drugs by the locations of its brain-receptor sites for two predominant reasons: (1) The lack of receptors in the medulla significantly reduces the possibility of accidental, or even deliberate, death from THC, and (2) the lack of receptors in the mesocorticolimbic pathway significantly reduces the risks of addiction and serious physical dependence. As a therapeutic drug, these features are God's greatest gifts.

THE CHEMISTRY OF EMOTIONS

Mechoulam regrets that more has not been done in the therapeutic application of THC. In a 1986 interview with the International Journal of the Addictions, he said that, "Knowing what I know today, I would have worked more on the therapeutic aspects of cannabis. This area apparently needs a major push that is has not had up till now, particularly given that it has a therapeutic potential. One of the reasons that it has not been pushed was than most pharmaceutical companies years ago were afraid to get into that field. Companies were 'burnt' working on amphetamines and LSD. . . . They are afraid of notoriety." Clearly, cannabis acts on coordination of movement by way of the receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, and on memory by way of the receptors in the limbic system's hippocampus, which "gates" information during memory consolidation. Mechoulam believes that in humans these actions "are rather marginal." "Cannabis," he states, "is used . . . for its actions on mood and emotion." The key to understanding the reason for the presence of cannabinoid receptors in the human brain lies in understanding the role of the receptors in the limbic system, which has a central role in the mechanisms which govern behavior and emotions. The limbic system coordinates activities between the visceral base-brain and the rest of the nervous system. "We know next to nothing on the chemistry of emotions," Mechoulam instructs. It is his hope that future research on the role of cannabinoid receptors in the brain will shed light on this new area of investigation and reflection.

 

[Guest]

Robobond, you missed one VERY IMPORTANT fact that I made which was that the TEPENOIDS in cannabis releases different neurochemicals not just the thc and other cannabinoids.

Also, the article I linked showed in plain view that cannabis does effect dopamine neurons.

I read an article that went more in depth about the terpenoid(essential oils) of cannabis and their neurochemical effects but I can't find it but this deals a little about it.

Here's the article on the cannabis terpenoids and their effect of neurochemicals:
http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/November05/empower.htm

A most recent research study revealed that terpenoids of the non-psychoactive cannabis, cannabidiol (CBD) and terpineol, modify the serotonin-binding activity at the 5HT1a and 5HT2a receptor sites. The potential of CBD suggests an acutely active anti-migraine drug while that of terpineol, putatively prophylactic.

The author proposes a possible correlation between the pharmacological activities of sesquiterpenoids as found in feverfew, butterbur, monoterpenoids as found in cannabis and of monoterpenoids as found in spearmint. She speculates that those terpenoids that are potential migraine remedies might be stereospecific (levorotatory), which could be lead targets for the development of anitmigraine drugs. She further promotes studies of spearmint tea as a safe and very low-cost natural antimigraine remedy.

 

[southpaw]

This is good stuff, and I plan to read in more detail when I've got a night's rest behind me. Are there any other threads that specifically discuss the chemical contributions of non THC compounds to the cannabis "high"? One I'm interested in dopamine and serotonin regulation, and two I'm curious what beyond cloudy/clear/amber trichs governs the difference between the indica and sativa buzz.

I'm in the camp that has avoided tobacco addiction, and I chalk it up to a very simple point. I am finicky as f*ck about what I eat, and tobacco to me tastes nasty as hell. Same with coffee. I wonder is there a connection between people with less heightened taste buds and cigarette addiction? Just a thought.

If they made a Camel that tasted like strawberries, I'd have lung cancer before the year was out.

 

[marguzz22]

Who says that weed is not addictive is either stupid or inconvienient , I have been trying to quit smoking for a year now , every time I say to myself "This is the last time ,weed is beginning to effect my life , my social life also" Its not a physical addiction but a mental one ...

 

[Peregrin Took]

Pot is not physically addictive. (does not cause a dependency or deficiency within your anatomy)

It CAN be psychologically addictive, as can any pleasure; sex, sports, video games, foods etc.

Its that simple. Cigs are very physically and psychologically addictive. Where as pot is, at worst, just a psychological addiction.

Lets not forget the medical benefits of marijuana, as cigs have none.

 

[robobond]

Who says that weed is not addictive is either stupid or inconvienient , I have been trying to quit smoking for a year now , every time I say to myself "This is the last time ,weed is beginning to effect my life , my social life also" Its not a physical addiction but a mental one ...

Then I feel very sad for you. Yea psychological addiction can occur but it is a very weak one. If you cant stop smoking weed then you need to.

 

[Jam Master Jaco]

Who says that weed is not addictive is either stupid or inconvienient , I have been trying to quit smoking for a year now , every time I say to myself "This is the last time ,weed is beginning to effect my life , my social life also" Its not a physical addiction but a mental one ...

Buddy that could easily be thrown right back in your face with a simple "anyone who can't quit smoking weed is stupid and inconvienient"

I just started refrigeration school, and only smoke on the weekends. I went from blazing every single day for about 3 years to only doing it on the weekends. I'm sorry man, but it's really not that hard. Just simply DON'T SMOKE!

 

[robobond]

I kinda found it more habitual then true addiction because sometimes Ill get a quarter and smoke a little bit everyday and other times Ill get a quarter and smoke it all on the weekends and I found that I dont feel like I want to smoke after smoking all on the weekends then I do when i come home everyday and smoke.