No I just had a few that were small and whitish I kept them.
Maybe 25% are YY?
-SamS
Maybe 25% are YY?
-SamS
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Male clones transformed to Female to judge male smoking quality
- Thread starter Sam_Skunkman
- Start date
Thankyou for your descriptions Sam. I know what I think Skunk#1 is like. I'm probably not as familiar with it as you are..
I know what the smell is or probably was like when Madjag was probably buying @10cents a seed..
If they were all like more or less like the UK cheese clone or there abouts in nose with more or less garlic/lemon/fuel/acetone/peardrops or just a difference in whole volatile terpenes changing into whatever that makes phenotypes unique smells within genotype. Then I know the stink or can imagion it.. Can you describe it? Or list the terpenes smells you tested in Skunk or bred into it or particuly like about your version of Skunk and was most pleased with... (I like the Red wine or Bordeaux smell)
'Form' or 'Phyllotaxy' if we are to assume these are different because they are somewhat I believe. One is stature related traits and the other is leaf and stem arrangements some likely maternal or mitchondrial but I do not know for sure. Has cannabis form in your opinion to do with dimprphism?
I associate skunk or cheese with a double serated leaf shape like this with notable double serrations. Is this something that was only in the skunk @ one time? Or also in it's parents also or one of them? Is it a merge of NL&WL? Is it traceable to a single source?
It's a more or less pronounced this trait in cheese and it shows on more leaf edges in bigger pots with more available nitrogen.
I notice the bottom indicator leaf always self defoliate, these seem to be classic charachteristics wrote about in old seed books.
I'm to young to have your seeds Sam...
You describe reversal spraying as stem and repoductive primordia, I don't think it could alter form much.. I think I understand this..
It's male and has a structural shape disimilar to the females.
Is this form difference less or more noticeable than your proper old boys and girls?
Have you had the opertunity to do this with the old world strains?
Do these plants look different from what you took to Amsterdam from America? The buds and living plants?
Sorry for all the questions..
I have to say that I finally got around to finishing this whole thread. When I started it I was immediately motivated to buy some Florel to try this out on some males. While there is a wealth of information in here I'm really surprised that there are barely any pictures of reversed males to document the process and people's experiences. I plan to finally pop my pack of Dank Zappa, separate all the males, apply the Florel as per xxxStra8edgexxx's instructions, find a breeding male with the terpene profile I'm looking for to make F2s and other crosses all while trying to document my results so others can duplicate or improve on my findings.
It's time y'all
It's time y'all
sierraskunk
Member
Can you elaborate on your experience then? The picture you posted also won't get any bigger to check it out in detail. I have some Dank Zappa seedlings right now. When I get some males I'll reverse them and flower them outside after taking cuts to determine a keeper.
Your not alone, lol. I wanna do the same with some males I have. After reading this and seeing how cheap Florel is, I gotta try it.
RustyShcklfrd
Member
I wonder what you really gain by flipping males. Its seems youd still have to cross and self to find you recessive and dominate traits after the fact anyway. To steal an analogy from a respected source, (sorry if its a bit crass) , say people could be sprayed with silver and females could be made male (just work with me for a minute), and say we wanted to breed for females with big breasts....instead of looking through males (fathers) and breeding to try to find which male crossed with a large breasted female will produce large breasted offspring, wouldnt it be easier to just find 2 large breasted females, flip one, and cross them to give you a better shot at offspring with the traits your looking for. I know its a stretch, but its kinda how I see female breeding now, but im probably wrong. Should we actually be using female breeding as a faster means to the ends instead of searching for a "good" male? Everything has a place, but what do you guys think?
I think the biggest things you can take away from reversing males and seeing what they bring to the table in a cross is the overall terpene profile (smell and taste), trichome coverage and possibly even potency if you want to smoke the finished flowers or have them lab tested.
RustyShcklfrd
Member
I've never tried to reverse a male, but I guess my question is; you still dont know if the male will pass any of those desired traits on to the progeny until you cross it anyway, right? It seems cool and all, but as a breeding tool, it seems like you could run two generations of of crosses before you can collect data on the male that may or may not pass its traits on anyway. Like I said, I have no experience with this, so I might be way off base in my outlook. I should read through the thread a bit.
Heres the deal.
In the past. Pollen chuckers like myself like seeing their favorite clone bred to something else right?
How do they choose the make and female pair?
The female is easy. Most people come to decision based on quality of the female flowers and growth habit.
The male? Habit, smell size?
The point is to get the same clues from males as females provide. It puts the female bud aspart of the criteria for choosing a male. Smell potency flavor look is all hidden in males. Til now. Choose your studs by desirable attributes of product.
No, you won't know what progeny tests will show any more than you will of the mom. But it's more than we used to have. Progeny tests can narrow in more easily.
I was thinking the real question is, what is more efficient? Reversing many males and checking traits, then doing fewer test crosses , or just doing larger amounts of test crosses with more males and more progeny tests . I lean towards the latter. I ordered florel and never ended up using it! I'm too busy making seed and testing seed. However, I am very curious. I encourage everyone carry on experimenting. Reversing males could be a useful tool in the end. I am just not sure of the effectiveness vs the amount of time and resources spent.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. My unopened bottle of florel is sitting on the shelf still.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
The time and resources are a $10 bottle of florel and the space to grow out one cycle to test a whole crop of males. Does the trait pass on that you find? I don't know if the chances are increased, but if you start with a male that presents the trait you desire, I think it might have a higher likelihood of passing on said trait vs a random male selected by normal visual flowering cues.
That one grow cycle could be used to make more test crosses, ordo progeny tests, that might prove more worthwhile anyway. I mean if one cycle meant significant progress, then it would be worth reversing the males, but I am unsure you would be ahead of random males anyway. One cycle is enough wasted time. Life is short, I gotta get done what I can asap!
Amnesiehase
New member
Hello,
i would like to know your opinion. back in 2012 we got some very good femenized seeds of an amnezia haze, which were much better, then the famous "core cut" or other amnezias i know. the taste, the effect and the yield was much better. because of some trouble we couldnt hold the motherplants and lost the genetic.
we talked to the breeder, but couldnt get femenized seeds. by the way... that were the first and only "real" femenized i know. you set 1000 seeds, you got 1000 fems, no herma, no male. the breeder gave us the regular seeds of the genetics and told us we had to do some search for a good phaeno.
i already tested a small amount, but did not keep the males for selection because the numbers were to low. when i knew i got what i wanted (females) i planted more seeds.
know i have a selection of females and males going on. the females doing no problems at all, no hermas ect.
the males were straight males till end of week 2. when i could sort out who is which gender, i sorted the males out to get them to a location were they cant do damage.
they were 36h without any light, the only "real stress" they got in their lifes, rest was nearly to optimum conditions.
but now in week 3-4 more and more start to show female flowers on the top of the "male buds".
my questions: can i use the pollen of this males, or should i stop the breeding process. all i wanted was to get back this wonderfull genetics. but if i am going to produce trash, i will cut it and dumb and go on for something else not waisting my time.
i would like to know your opinion. back in 2012 we got some very good femenized seeds of an amnezia haze, which were much better, then the famous "core cut" or other amnezias i know. the taste, the effect and the yield was much better. because of some trouble we couldnt hold the motherplants and lost the genetic.
we talked to the breeder, but couldnt get femenized seeds. by the way... that were the first and only "real" femenized i know. you set 1000 seeds, you got 1000 fems, no herma, no male. the breeder gave us the regular seeds of the genetics and told us we had to do some search for a good phaeno.
i already tested a small amount, but did not keep the males for selection because the numbers were to low. when i knew i got what i wanted (females) i planted more seeds.
know i have a selection of females and males going on. the females doing no problems at all, no hermas ect.
the males were straight males till end of week 2. when i could sort out who is which gender, i sorted the males out to get them to a location were they cant do damage.
they were 36h without any light, the only "real stress" they got in their lifes, rest was nearly to optimum conditions.
but now in week 3-4 more and more start to show female flowers on the top of the "male buds".
my questions: can i use the pollen of this males, or should i stop the breeding process. all i wanted was to get back this wonderfull genetics. but if i am going to produce trash, i will cut it and dumb and go on for something else not waisting my time.
Did someone figure out which one is better 450ppm or 750ppm?
If I have of pure ethephon, how much I mix it with water to get 450ppm or 750ppm? 0.045 grams per litre for 450ppm and 0.075 grams per litre for 750ppm?
Can males be transformed fully into females so that I can get sinsemilla out of them or is flowers going to be pollinated no matter what?
Did I understand correctly that you only spray 3 times one week apart in beginning of flower?
I would love to try this thechnique in my breeding program.
If I have of pure ethephon, how much I mix it with water to get 450ppm or 750ppm? 0.045 grams per litre for 450ppm and 0.075 grams per litre for 750ppm?
Can males be transformed fully into females so that I can get sinsemilla out of them or is flowers going to be pollinated no matter what?
Did I understand correctly that you only spray 3 times one week apart in beginning of flower?
I would love to try this thechnique in my breeding program.
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Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
750 ppm.
I cant remember the concentration, but a ppm meter works. Mine is based on the 500 scale, so 1.5ec.
"Can males be transformed fully into females so that I can get sinsemilla out of them or is flowers going to be pollinated no matter what?"
U can get female flowers, but I wouldn't do this test in a room of females that u want to be pollen/seed free. There will likely be some rogue male parts that u miss spraying that might produce pollen. Keep a diligent eye out to pick them off as ur doing ur test n I think u will have more success producing female flowers from the reversal.
"Did I understand correctly that you only spray 3 times one week apart in beginning of flower?"
Start a week prior to flipping to flower. Then once a week thru flowering.
Thanks a lot!
I am growing at micro scale at this moment so keeping eye on male flowers is easy.
I will test this if I get male out of 3 Mr. Nice walkabout or 2 Ace Malawi. Need to place my order for ethephon so that I can use it on some plants this grow cycle.
If I get it on time you can follom my progres in my thread "My secret winter garden" at micro part of this forum. I will update any progres here also.
I did read that acording to book called Ethylene In Plant Biology, by Abeles, 1973 says that Ethephon can be added to soil at 960 ppm. Does anyone have acces to that book? I would like to verify this. If it is true I will test watering ethephon instead of spraying it.
Edit. I did not understand what I read right it was not in Ethylene in plant biology but in paper called "Induction of female flowers on male plants of cannabis sativa L. by 2-chloroethanephos-phoric acid" and it speaks about foliar spray not soil drench. Seems like I will spray my plants.
Edit. I did not understand what I read right it was not in Ethylene in plant biology but in paper called "Induction of female flowers on male plants of cannabis sativa L. by 2-chloroethanephos-phoric acid" and it speaks about foliar spray not soil drench. Seems like I will spray my plants.
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That sounds like a pretty interesting experiment. I never got around to reversing any males but I have the Florel and would like to get around to it one day...
