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Making a Medicial Marijuana Friendly PGR Regimen
- Thread starter dizzlekush
- Start date
hades
Member
Interesting read dizzle. I just came back to the boards after a little bit of 'away' time and really got a kick out of this new sub-forum. Reminded me of the 'Advanced Techniques' sub-forum back on Overgrow........which is where I used to spend all my time =)
Just wanted to chime in to say that I have actually used Copper Hydroxide to root prune. There was a company.....hell almost 7 years ago now I guess....called Griffin Industries that made a spray can product called "Spin-Out". It was a Copper Hydroxide paint that you sprayed on the inside of your pots, and it ended up being a dark grey color. It was very effective at root pruning and worked exactly like air-pots/smart pots but without being a huge PITA to transplant =) I ended up getting a pack of six cans for something like $30 or so. No need to buy new pots.
They ended up having a bunch of issues with the FDA/EPA and discontinued making the product. I'm not sure what the exact nature of the issue was. There was a little bit of talk of how safe Copper was to have in your pots, but I noticed absolutely no negative effects.
Pleasure to read the thread and I look forward to discussing topics like this in the future.
Just wanted to chime in to say that I have actually used Copper Hydroxide to root prune. There was a company.....hell almost 7 years ago now I guess....called Griffin Industries that made a spray can product called "Spin-Out". It was a Copper Hydroxide paint that you sprayed on the inside of your pots, and it ended up being a dark grey color. It was very effective at root pruning and worked exactly like air-pots/smart pots but without being a huge PITA to transplant =) I ended up getting a pack of six cans for something like $30 or so. No need to buy new pots.
They ended up having a bunch of issues with the FDA/EPA and discontinued making the product. I'm not sure what the exact nature of the issue was. There was a little bit of talk of how safe Copper was to have in your pots, but I noticed absolutely no negative effects.
Pleasure to read the thread and I look forward to discussing topics like this in the future.
softyellowlight
Active member
I don't really have anything to add to this interesting thread yet, but I have a bunch of Vanilluna of which one is totally done now at eight weeks and the rest have a few weeks longer to go... I just ordered some JAZ Rose Spray and I can't wait to spray half of the plants and see what happens at the very end of inflorescence!
Thanks Dizzle for this great thread! I have a kind of stupid question. I have this product, that has 5ml of triacontanol per liter, how do you calculate the ppm's? Is it by molecules, weight or volume? It also has 490g of ethanol per liter, 18g/l of n-butanol, a little urea, ureaphosphate, iron chelate, aminoacids, surfactant and the rest is water. The proposed usage is 1 part product 4 parts water and used as foliar spray once a week. Thanks!
edit: While I'm at it, I might just throw another stupid idea. What do you think about using the stretch inducing gibberrillins to control the height of bushy slow growing indicas? I think it could be beneficial, if you have stretchy hybrids or sativas in the same grow space, to have another control tool for canopy/morphology management?
edit: While I'm at it, I might just throw another stupid idea. What do you think about using the stretch inducing gibberrillins to control the height of bushy slow growing indicas? I think it could be beneficial, if you have stretchy hybrids or sativas in the same grow space, to have another control tool for canopy/morphology management?
dizzlekush
Member
Are you sure it says 5 milliliters of TRIA and not 5 milligrams?
ppm is calculated by milligrams per liter (mg/l) since a liter of pure water = one million milligrams = 1,000 grams = 1 kg
Interesting product, since once its properly diluted there will be about 10% aqueous EtOH i would suggest using it only in very high light environments. MeOH and EtOH are effective at increaseing growth in high light & heat environments with low water & humidity. in more normal conditions it takes considerably less MeOH and EtOH before phytotoxicity is induced.
I have no idea what the n-butanol is for so i cannot comment on it.
does it say what the Fe is chelated with?
Ive thought about co-applying low concentrations of Gibberellins with TRIA and/or 6-BAP for increasing the height of the stouter cannabis cultivars. exogenous applications of GA's almost always only increase cell elongation and not cell division, which is why i would only co-apply it with TRIA and/or BAP to also increase cell division for healthier growth.
Thanks for the reply! Indeed, it was 5mg/l, so we are looking at 1ppm TRIA when mixed with water. The link to research paper was broken, but I guess you can find it somewhere else. They don´t mention how the iron is chelated, maybe in the paper?
http://www.carbonkick.fi/eng/index_jacksmagic.html
I´ve had positive results even in pretty low light vegetative conditions, except few funky looking leaves after generous foliar application too often, but so far so good. I made the first test with a group of runts lagging behind other plants, and they caught up with the rest! Do you think I could avoid ethanol toxicity by making a more dilute mixture and spraying more often?
Have you noticed changes in plant structure while using TRIA? I think I may have used too much of it, or it just doesn´t necessarily suit this strain, because the laterals/secondaries whatever you call them are stretching like crazy! Strain is a very bushy indica, and almost every goddamn lateral is trying to grow as tall as main branches. Plants are heavily tied and I already chopped almost all laterals once, I may have to do it again after a week of 12/12 or so.
I read from another topic of yours, that methanol would be better as an alcohol source, maybe I should try to make my own mixture and compare to this product. This one costs about 20 euros for 1 liter of concentrate and it should last pretty long with my humble needs.
http://www.carbonkick.fi/eng/index_jacksmagic.html
I´ve had positive results even in pretty low light vegetative conditions, except few funky looking leaves after generous foliar application too often, but so far so good. I made the first test with a group of runts lagging behind other plants, and they caught up with the rest! Do you think I could avoid ethanol toxicity by making a more dilute mixture and spraying more often?
Have you noticed changes in plant structure while using TRIA? I think I may have used too much of it, or it just doesn´t necessarily suit this strain, because the laterals/secondaries whatever you call them are stretching like crazy! Strain is a very bushy indica, and almost every goddamn lateral is trying to grow as tall as main branches. Plants are heavily tied and I already chopped almost all laterals once, I may have to do it again after a week of 12/12 or so.
I read from another topic of yours, that methanol would be better as an alcohol source, maybe I should try to make my own mixture and compare to this product. This one costs about 20 euros for 1 liter of concentrate and it should last pretty long with my humble needs.
yo,
how did go with the JAZ spray??
also any1 got info bout my previous question?
thx
dizzlekush
Member
24-Epibrassinolide Experiment Results
24-Epibrassinolide Experiment Results
Well it took some time for the changes in growth to be significant enough for me to see with my eyes, but finally i have results. Keep in mind that all testing has been in vegetative stage, and all plants have been dosed with 1.0ppm Triacontanol every 2-3 weeks. The Bubblegum is a squat, bushy plant, while the Blueberry Diesel is a tall, robust strain. There has been 2 EBR applications, the first a few days after being transplanted into one gallon pots, the 2nd being 40 days after the first and 2 days after plants were transplanted from 1 gallon to 3 gallon pots. Changes in growth were much more apparent and arose much quicker in the Bubblegum cultivar than the Blueberry Diesel.
Height was completely homogenous in all bubblegum cultivars, as was leaf and stem color. However the Bubblegum control group began to show significantly less dense foliage than all other groups (less branching, leaves, nodes), and significantly less root development than all other groups. The group that received the largest dosage (0.10ppm) had very slight physiological mutation where one side of a leaf would grow faster than the other side and lead to a slightly curled leaf. this was probably on 2-4% of the leafs in the 0.10ppm group. The 0.10ppm group also had slightly less dense foliage than all the other groups aside from the control group, however root growth was on par with other EBR groups. The .025, .050 and .075ppm groups all had identical top growth and root growth (as far as i could tell), until transplanting and the 2nd application took place.
There were larger discrepancies in top growth and root growth of individuals within test groups of the Blueberry Diesel cultivar than differences in growth between test groups, from the control group to the 0.10ppm group. However upon transplanting and the 2nd dosage, the root growth of both the Bubblegum & the Blueberry Diesel groups became much more homogenous for individuals within groups while differences from group to group have greatly increased. The .075ppm EBR groups for both the Bubblegum & Blueberry diesel had significant increases in root growth over all other groups, followed by the .050ppm groups and 0.10ppm groups. The .025ppm groups have better root development than the control groups but it it significantly less improved than the higher dosage groups.
With these results i am fairly certain that the .050-.075ppm range for 24-Epibrassinolide is optimal for cannabis cultivation, with the higher range (.075ppm) most likely being better once lower ranges have been ruled out to not be supraoptimal. This is not of surprise, since 0.1uM (~.0481ppm) is the most tested dosage with successful results in experiments, and when slightly higher doses are tested in more accurate experimentation they often have better growth than the .0481-.050ppm (0.1uM-.05mg/l) groups.
24-Epibrassinolide Experiment Results
Well it took some time for the changes in growth to be significant enough for me to see with my eyes, but finally i have results. Keep in mind that all testing has been in vegetative stage, and all plants have been dosed with 1.0ppm Triacontanol every 2-3 weeks. The Bubblegum is a squat, bushy plant, while the Blueberry Diesel is a tall, robust strain. There has been 2 EBR applications, the first a few days after being transplanted into one gallon pots, the 2nd being 40 days after the first and 2 days after plants were transplanted from 1 gallon to 3 gallon pots. Changes in growth were much more apparent and arose much quicker in the Bubblegum cultivar than the Blueberry Diesel.
Height was completely homogenous in all bubblegum cultivars, as was leaf and stem color. However the Bubblegum control group began to show significantly less dense foliage than all other groups (less branching, leaves, nodes), and significantly less root development than all other groups. The group that received the largest dosage (0.10ppm) had very slight physiological mutation where one side of a leaf would grow faster than the other side and lead to a slightly curled leaf. this was probably on 2-4% of the leafs in the 0.10ppm group. The 0.10ppm group also had slightly less dense foliage than all the other groups aside from the control group, however root growth was on par with other EBR groups. The .025, .050 and .075ppm groups all had identical top growth and root growth (as far as i could tell), until transplanting and the 2nd application took place.
There were larger discrepancies in top growth and root growth of individuals within test groups of the Blueberry Diesel cultivar than differences in growth between test groups, from the control group to the 0.10ppm group. However upon transplanting and the 2nd dosage, the root growth of both the Bubblegum & the Blueberry Diesel groups became much more homogenous for individuals within groups while differences from group to group have greatly increased. The .075ppm EBR groups for both the Bubblegum & Blueberry diesel had significant increases in root growth over all other groups, followed by the .050ppm groups and 0.10ppm groups. The .025ppm groups have better root development than the control groups but it it significantly less improved than the higher dosage groups.
With these results i am fairly certain that the .050-.075ppm range for 24-Epibrassinolide is optimal for cannabis cultivation, with the higher range (.075ppm) most likely being better once lower ranges have been ruled out to not be supraoptimal. This is not of surprise, since 0.1uM (~.0481ppm) is the most tested dosage with successful results in experiments, and when slightly higher doses are tested in more accurate experimentation they often have better growth than the .0481-.050ppm (0.1uM-.05mg/l) groups.
Dizzle you are my hero buddy. Love the tests! I accidentally overdosed my plants with 24-Epibrassinolide. HUGE MISTAKE! less is always more with hormones =) I noticed cell elongation and chlorosis. So for those out there that are going to be using any kind of hormones be careful.
My next test I will be using a NIS and a much lower dosage. When you mix EPIN do you have to use it fast because microbes break it down quickly? It sucks that I mix up a quart and only use a fraction of the mix. Seems very wasteful. Is there any way to preserve it? Maybe mixing some kind of preservative in there?
dizzlekush
Member
Yes 1 vial (1ml) per gallon should give you ~.066ppm which i would consider a good dosage. However i did a little side experiment with 3 clones that i had that i had no use for where i decided not to water them to show how EBR effected water stressing. there was one pant that was the control, a 0.050ppm and a 0.100ppm. the .050ppm plant lasted a whole week longer than the control before wilting, and the .100ppm group lasted an extra 3 days past the .050ppm group before wilting. One thing i noticed was that the highest test group was significantly the shortest plant, but had the most foliage/mass, suggesting that epibrassinolide reduces stretch (cell elongation), although Spurr has commented on the exact opposite happening when over-applying Brassinolide... I personally would give higher doses if expecting significant stresses for the plant.
AFAIK TopTropicals doesn't express the active ingredient in Cirkon besides the fact that it's a synthetic analogue for a hydroxycinnamate, which there are many of, each one having different effects on plant growth. i honestly cant comment on the product with any sort of accuracy since i have no idea what the active compound is and what concentration it is at, and hydroxycinnamates are not a very well understood/experimented group of secondary metabolites. i hope it works out for you and i hope you keep us in the loop with your experiences with it.
Im not aware of microbial degradation being an issue with 24-epibrassinolide, i know that it doesn't degrade in water over time, unlike its more active cousin Brassinolide, which is why i use epibrassinolide.
To insure that there is no microbial degradation i would make sure that no light can get to the liquid and store it in your refrigerator. Epibrassinolide is fairly non toxic, there's a study where mice were injected with pure Epin and no negative effects were noticed r.e. health of mice, so if someone accidentally takes a sip, dont worry bout it, just a waste of money.
Hello everyone Dizzle has already done great testing for us all but I wanted to redo some of his testing and take pictures an post them for everyone to see. I am one of Dizzles copy cat growers to some extent growing in peat moss and using dry salts however our mg/l feedings are a little different but not by much.
Experiment I will be spraying benzylaminopurine (BAP) on four plants in flower. They will be getting sprayed at 0ppm "controls" 25ppm,50ppm,75ppm, and 100ppm. The doses administered on Day 24. A little late but I really wanted to test and see results. Good or negative there will be something to learn. =)
Stock solution The stock solution will be identical to Dizzles formulation accept I will be making a 1% BAP solution instead of his 2%.
50ml methanol measured in graduated cylinder
1 gram potassium hydroxide (wait until dissolved in the methanol) BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL
1 gram of BAP
then I will be topping off with distilled water to 100ml
This will give me a 1% W/V stock solution of BAP. 1ml/L will give me 10ppm 2ml/l= 20ppm and so forth. As Dizzle has mentioned before take caution when working with potassium hydroxide and methanol. Both are no laughing matter. I will be using a long chemical gloves,respirator, and goggles. Everything will be mixed outside where I have lots of ventilation. Oh take note it's not a good idea to have your Red Bull in the Lab!! I moved mine before working. =) Sources for hormones listed below in my sig.
Experiment I will be spraying benzylaminopurine (BAP) on four plants in flower. They will be getting sprayed at 0ppm "controls" 25ppm,50ppm,75ppm, and 100ppm. The doses administered on Day 24. A little late but I really wanted to test and see results. Good or negative there will be something to learn. =)
Stock solution The stock solution will be identical to Dizzles formulation accept I will be making a 1% BAP solution instead of his 2%.
50ml methanol measured in graduated cylinder
1 gram potassium hydroxide (wait until dissolved in the methanol) BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL
1 gram of BAP
then I will be topping off with distilled water to 100ml
This will give me a 1% W/V stock solution of BAP. 1ml/L will give me 10ppm 2ml/l= 20ppm and so forth. As Dizzle has mentioned before take caution when working with potassium hydroxide and methanol. Both are no laughing matter. I will be using a long chemical gloves,respirator, and goggles. Everything will be mixed outside where I have lots of ventilation. Oh take note it's not a good idea to have your Red Bull in the Lab!! I moved mine before working. =) Sources for hormones listed below in my sig.
StoopheadFred
Member
You need polysorbate 20. I got mine from a herbalist shop that has lotion making supplies. I mixed a little tria with the p20 in a shot glass and microwaved it for about 10 seconds and that was the only way I got the Tria to dissolve into the solution.
I have jaz and tria on hand now and a small setup that will be cycling ~30 clones/seedlings in there. I just sprayed all that I've got with jaz, but I will do some better documented and more specific tests with both of these chemicals as well.
I have jaz and tria on hand now and a small setup that will be cycling ~30 clones/seedlings in there. I just sprayed all that I've got with jaz, but I will do some better documented and more specific tests with both of these chemicals as well.
stealthy21
Member
i am using that brassilonide at .03 ppm, dizzle your saying i should raise that up by double or so for our lovely plant? or at least i can build up too that level once lower levels have been established?
I was thinking of adding
Brassinolide......0.0001 PPM
Benzylaminopurine...0.001 PPM
Indole-3-Acetic Acid ....... 0.3 PPM
to make a RTU clone solution.
Sooooo........
I thought I would get an opinion from someone who actually knows what they are doing!!!!!
What would Dizzle do??????
Brassinolide......0.0001 PPM
Benzylaminopurine...0.001 PPM
Indole-3-Acetic Acid ....... 0.3 PPM
to make a RTU clone solution.
Sooooo........
I thought I would get an opinion from someone who actually knows what they are doing!!!!!
What would Dizzle do??????
