Make-up???

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Ignoring the slurs on my genetics knowledge lol, and tip toeing around being banned, if you accept that in extreme situations, it is clear that people will not be fat, then you have to accept that the level of bady fat can be controlled by controlling food intake.

obvious that starving people cannot be fat, there is not enough material being taken in for the body to follow the genetic program. The fact that everyone can be starved to death proves nothing. The fact that 100 people all with the same exact diet and exercise level will have different metabolic rates and different body shapes is much more relevant to the discussion. Surely you don't really think that everyone's bodies operate under the exact same parameters. I never denied that the level of fat can be controlled by food intake, that's kind of a no brainer... just like the fact that if all other things are equal, genetics will cause a variety of body shapes and metabolisms to show up.

Although the brain uses up (typically) 80% of the body's calories (given a normal intake). So doubling all physical activity will only burn off 20% more calories than a normal day. Stress will typically burn off a similar additional level of calories, and so I accept that different people in different situations will need to eat differently to maintain the same weight, though that has little to do with genes. The metabolic rates of 2 people, one fatter and one thinner than the normal will show one has a higher rate and one a lower. But the higher rate is not in the thinner person. The body uses up more energy to maintain a larger body than a smaller one, so the metabolic rate needed is lower in the thinner person. There are genetic issues which in some people tell the body that it is never full, but that is very rare, and it is still the level of food eaten that dictates the size of the person.

Surely you don't really think that the only difference between fat people's and thin people's bodies is the amount of food they should eat. Surely you don't think that the toned and muscular phisique is the only acceptable body type. Do you? Do you really not think genes affect body shape? If so I don't have any other comments but 'wow'...

But back to make up, I think everyone would agree that in cases of disfigurement, then concealer is totally understandable, and frankly desirable by most. I hadn't considered that situation, I was merely talking about everyday useage by most people, as in a desire not to return to the 80s. But if we are talking about disfigurement and make up solutions, again in disfigurement cases I'm sure all would agree that plastic surgury is acceptable, but what about in terms of pure cosmetic vanity for the masses? Just an enhancement, or over the top? Would any of the ladies out there have a nose job or anything else done? Is that just a part of making oneself look better or is that something else?

What is the problem with enhancing one's appearance? Why can people not have that right? What gives anyone the right to insult or look down on someone for enhancing their appearance?

Of course, the general consensus is 'less is more'... I agree 100%...

What I disagree with is that make up is a lie... If we're going to go that route, then there are a helluva lot of things most people do to misrepresent themselves when meeting others... I'd be a whole lot more disappointed to find out I'd been dating a complete bitch who was acting nice, that a girl who was covering up a birthmark or a few acne scars... But hey, I guess the outside is more the concern of this thread...

Quite obviously, not very many people want to date a clown... But to call makeup a lie, or to defend someone who is calling women who use a bit of blush liars... Well, that's quite a bit over the top... and for a guy to do it in the women's forum... Well, that makes him a rude asshat in my book...

How can you defend the premise that women wear make-up to fool men into having sex, so they are liars and should throw out their make-up and stop being so fat? Because that is what I was addressing with my statements and what you seemed to be defending in trying to argue.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Another thing to consider here, is the concept of disfigurement...

When some people look at themselves in the mirror each day, their eye is automaticly drawn to the things that they don't like... From childhood even... It could be a small birthmark, or dark freckles, or a mole, or whatever... Most likely it could be something that most people in a casual encounter would even notice...

But because the blemish is what they focus on when they look at themselves, they feel as though it stands out as loudly to everyone... So, to them it is a disfigurement, even though most people would not even notice... and the bit of make-up in the morning makes a huge difference to their comfort and confidence level all day...

Make-up a lie? hardly... and anyone with two good eyes can tell if someone unattractive has caked spackle of their face to hide themselves, so it's not even like make-up is going to fool anyone... Geesh, it's not as though a latex mask is being worn(a la mission impossible)...

 

[Dutchgrown]

More than any other reason, and as a woman, I can honestly say that the use of make up is not for any other reason than one's own self-esteem....if a woman 'thinks' it makes her look more pleasing to another then that is a positive validation...the amount worn is up to the woman who is putting it on and looking in the mirror to find that 'acceptable' amount which makes 'her' feel like she looks better with it than without it...however much that amount may be...whether it's a couple of strokes of blush or foundation, blush, powder, eyeliner, eyeshadows, the list goes on and on and on..........bottom line, I believe women do it to feel good about themselves. Just take a look at the cover of any magazine...from women's mags to those geared towards men (cough...cough....insert Playboy etc here)....woman are always trying to make themselves appear in a look which 'we' think men (or one special man) find pleasing....for some it's easier to do than others...some women try too hard, does that make it wrong or are they lieing....I think not.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

More than any other reason, and as a woman, I can honestly say that the use of make up is not for any other reason than one's own self-esteem....if a woman 'thinks' it makes her look more pleasing to another then that is a positive validation...the amount worn is up to the woman who is putting it on and looking in the mirror to find that 'acceptable' amount which makes 'her' feel like she looks better with it than without it...however much that amount may be...whether it's a couple of strokes of blush or foundation, blush, powder, eyeliner, eyeshadows, the list goes on and on and on..........bottom line, I believe women do it to feel good about themselves. Just take a look at the cover of any magazine...from women's mags to those geared towards men (cough...cough....insert Playboy etc here)....woman are always trying to make themselves appear in a look which 'we' think men find pleasing....for some it's easier to do than others...some women try too hard, does that make it wrong or are they lieing....I think not.

Exactly! Most women who wear make up dont really look that different without it on. Most women that wear make up ( and wear it well) use very little make up and its just used to even out skin tones or highlight their features. To me i dont see much of a difference between my girls face when she wakes up in the morning then when she is showered and wearing make up. I mean she smiles more with make up on, due to what Dg said about self esteem" but her look isnt very different with make up on to me.

I dont think make up is a lie used to coverf things up. No matter what you got to cover or hide it will still be seen with ot without make up on. i do think strippers wear make up in the wrong way, tthey cake that crap on and use really bright colors to draw attention to themselves, that is not a typical women though and shouldnt be used to base judgements off of.






Nevermind

 

[Dutchgrown]

Back in my grandmothers time...most women didn't wear make-up, or if they did it wasn't much at all...maybe some lip color....but as times progressed, and women were portrayed in magazines in a light of 'what's attractive' (like the playboy reference I made above) then most women in a quest to have their boyfriend, prospective boyfriend, husband, etc. find them to be just as attractive in that same sort of 'wow' way that men look at magazine models, well....it's a woman's way of trying to have the other person important to them 'see' them as attractive...whether it's actually needed or not....because if a woman feels good about herself (self-esteem) she then 'thinks' she is aesthetically pleasing to someone else and confidence is an overwhelming thing. Sure, chances are none of us are going to have that 'christy brinkley' look, but try try we do anyway...billions in sales to cosmetic companies proves that....why...because the majority of men who look at those perfect magazine faces and enjoy what they see send a subtle message to women that if they looked that way they'd receive positive validation...so for our self-esteem and how we 'think' we look to another becomes a driving force to please, to receive that 'wow honey, you look great tonight', or, 'damn you are so pretty today'...so we do it to please ourself as well as someone else...because if we please ourself in what we 'believe' another finds attractive, then in our own eyes when we look in the mirror we 'are' attractive. Much toooooo much emphasis is placed on the exterior appearance, when it 'should be' what's in a persons heart...there is no make-up to apply there.

 

[Guest]

I just started wearin makeup again since I chopped all my hair off..ala Audrey Hepburn. All that face showing...and it needed some makeup...

 

[GMT]

Well H3ad, it looks we aren't going to agree on the "what causes a fatty" issue, but I'm glad that you agree that with make up, "less is more". Although it wouldn't really matter to me if you prefered lots of make up on a woman, we are only discussing people's personal preferences on make up. Not telling anyone that they aren't allowed to wear it anymore.

 

[Alex-F]

Back in my grandmothers time...most women didn't wear make-up, or if they did it wasn't much at all...maybe some lip color....but as times progressed, and women were portrayed in magazines in a light of 'what's attractive' (like the playboy reference I made above) then most women in a quest to have their boyfriend, prospective boyfriend, husband, etc. find them to be just as attractive in that same sort of 'wow' way that men look at magazine models, well....it's a woman's way of trying to have the other person important to them 'see' them as attractive...whether it's actually needed or not....because if a woman feels good about herself (self-esteem) she then 'thinks' she is aesthetically pleasing to someone else and confidence is an overwhelming thing. Sure, chances are none of us are going to have that 'christy brinkley' look, but try try we do anyway...billions in sales to cosmetic companies proves that....why...because the majority of men who look at those perfect magazine faces and enjoy what they see send a subtle message to women that if they looked that way they'd receive positive validation...so for our self-esteem and how we 'think' we look to another becomes a driving force to please, to receive that 'wow honey, you look great tonight', or, 'damn you are so pretty today'...so we do it to please ourself as well as someone else...because if we please ourself in what we 'believe' another finds attractive, then in our own eyes when we look in the mirror we 'are' attractive. Much toooooo much emphasis is placed on the exterior appearance, when it 'should be' what's in a persons heart...there is no make-up to apply there.

I like that, well put.

I'm a fan of make-up (on my woman, not me, just to make that point clear ) for going out. Our Techno world is colourfull, it's only fitting to celebrate a good night out with a decent colourfull representation of ones self.
Apart from that I don't see much need for my girlfriend to wear make-up, that's something she has a totally different opinion on than me, no leaving for the office without having a face on first.

 

[Mrs.Babba]

I love all the guys responses, its great to hear from the males on how and how much a woman should wear makeup....it what makes the world go around, its such a personal decision for each woman, what you see on the outside gives you confidence to face the world each day.IF I thought plastic surgery would help me feel better about myself I would have no problem doing that, I dont think I ever will, but its nice to know that option is out there if I so desire. I never would! just sayin you know????

DG girl you said it!!! ...nice post! thanks everyone for all the input, keep it coming

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

.........just to note the old cliche'....... (physical)..'beauty is only skin deep'.......and can be enhanced somewhat......


......and yes make-up is a dangerous thing....lol....I wonder how many car accidents it is responsible for with all the preening that goes on with it every year.......?

 

[D0nC0smic]

less is definately more and foundation is for covering up a 5 o'clock shadow and shouldn't be worn by a woman unless she has truely horrible skin in which case the makeup probably doesn't help that fact and she should see a dermitologist instead of trying to cover it up. Yup i said it foundation should be reserved for drag queens

 

[KharmaGirl]

What about women with uneven skin tones? Foundation evens out the tone.

 

[miss nycdf]

Wow.... I didn't know makeup was such a controversial subject!

While I agree, some women take it overboard and look silly, it is not typically used as a form of trickery against men or anything, that's pretty absurd. It's like saying people who wear deodorant are "lying" because they would normally smell funky and the deodorant is concealing that. hahaha

But in all seriousness, some people do have the need for makeup to make themselves feel better and more confident. I don't see a problem with that. I don't personally wear any of it because my skin is (thankfully) nice, and plus that crap clogs your pores and I hate it... but it doesn't mean it doesn't benefit some people I guess...

Just my .02

 

[421oops]

drag queens lie w/make-up? at least the one i felt up did...lol...where was tgat adam at?

epigenetics....looks like some of you need genetic lessons.

genetics controls eye, hair, skin color, baldness...ect. not what one puts in their body.

skin tones? is that near a tit? men don't know or care about tones. unless they're drag queens.

 

[Ms.Grat3ful]

... opinions aside, I think it's here to stay..

In order to understand the constantly changing trends in cosmetics, it is interesting to take a look at the evolution of makeup. Women and men have been wearing cosmetics for centuries, although the styles have certainly undergone some dramatic changes over time. Let's take a look at how cosmetics evolved.


The earliest historical record of makeup comes from the 1st Dynasty of Egypt (c.3100-2907 BC). Tombs from this era have revealed unguent jars, which in later periods were scented. Unguent was a substance extensively used by men and women to keep their skin hydrated and supple and to avoid wrinkles from the dry heat. The women of Egypt also decorated their eyes by applying dark green color to the under lid and blackening the lashes and the upper lid with kohl, which was made from antimony (a metallic element) or soot. It is believed that the Jews adopted the use of makeup from the Egyptians, since references to the painting of faces appear in the New Testament section of the Bible.

Roman philosopher Plautus (254-184 BC) wrote, "A woman without paint is like food without salt." Of course, Plautus was a dramatist, which would explain his preference for the look of a "painted woman" at that time.
Romans widely used cosmetics by the middle of the 1st century AD. Kohl was used for darkening eyelashes and eyelids, chalk was used for whitening the complexion, and rouge was worn on the cheek. Depilatories were utilized at that time and pumice was used for cleaning the teeth.

Women wore white lead and chalk on their faces in Greco-Roman society. Persian women used henna dyes to stain their hair and faces with the belief that these dyes enabled them to summon the majesty of the earth.

During the European middle ages, pale skin was a sign of wealth. Sixth century women sought drastic measures to achieve that look by bleeding themselves, although, in contrast, Spanish prostitutes wore pink makeup. Thirteenth century affluent women donned pink lipstick as proof they could afford synthetic makeup.

During the Italian Renaissance, lead pain was used to lighten the face, which was very damaging to the wearer. Aqua Toffana was a popular face powder named for its creator, Signora Toffana. Made from arsenic, Signora Toffana instructed her rich clientele to apply the makeup only when their husbands were around. It's interesting to note that Tofana was executed some six hundred dead husbands later.

Cosmetics were seen as a health threat in Elizabethan England, although women wore egg whites over their faces for a glazed look.

During the reign of Charles II, heavy makeup began to surface as a means to contradict the pallor from being inside due to illness epidemics.

During the French Restoration in the 18th century, red rouge and lipstick were used to give the impression of a healthy, fun-loving spirit.

Eventually, people in other countries became repulsed by excessive makeup and claimed the "painted" French had something to hide.

During the Regency era, the most important item was rouge, which was used by most everyone. At that time, eyebrows were blackened and hair was dyed. To prevent a low hairline, a forehead bandage dipped in vinegar in which cats dung had been steeped was worn. Most of the country dwellers' makeup recipes made use of herbs, flowers, fat, brandy, vegetables, spring water and, of course, crushed strawberries. During this era, white skin signified a life of leisure while skin exposed to the sun indicated a life of outdoor labor. In order to maintain a pale complexion, women wore bonnets, carried parasols, and covered all visible parts of their bodies with whiteners and blemish removers. Unfortunately, more than a few of these remedies were lethal.

The most dangerous beauty aids during this time were white lead and
mercury. They not only eventually ruined the skin but also caused hair loss, stomach problems, the shakes, and could even cause death. Although these dangers became known through the death of courtesan Kitty Fisher, the majority of women continued to use these deadly whiteners.

During the 1800's, women would use belladonna to make their eyes appear more luminous, even though they were aware it was poisonous. Many cosmetics were made by local pharmacists, known as apothecaries in England, and common ingredients included mercury and nitric acid. Hair dye was made from coal tar, which is now illegal in America.

It might interest you to know that men wore makeup until the 1850's. George IV spent a fortune on cold cream, powders, pastes, and scents. However, not all men wore makeup, as many looked upon a man with rouged cheeks as a dandy.

Here are some beauty-tip recipes utilized during the late 1800's:
*For freckle removal: bruise and squeeze the juice out of chick-weed, add three times its quantity of soft water, then bathe the skin for five to ten minutes morning and evening.
*As a wash for the complexion: one teaspoon of flour of sulphur and a wine glassful of lime water, well shaken and mixed with half a wine-glass of glycerine and a wine-glass of rose-water. Rub on the face every night before going to bed.
*To keep hair from turning gray: four ounces of hulls of butternuts were infused with a quart of water, to which half an ounce of copperas was added. This was to be applied with a soft brush every two to three days.
*For wrinkle removal: melt one ounce of white wax, add two ounces of juice of lily-bulbs, two ounces of honey, two drams of rose-water, and a drop or two of ottar of roses and use twice a day.

Victorians abhorred makeup and associated its use with prostitutes and actresses (many considered them one and the same). Any visible hint of tampering with one's natural color would be looked upon with disdain. At that time, a respectable woman would use home-prepared face masks, most of which were based on foods such as oatmeal, honey, and egg yolk. For cleansing, rosewater or scented vinegars were used. As a beauty regimen, a woman would pluck her eyebrows, massage castor oil into her eyelashes, use rice powder to dust her nose, and buff her nails to a shine. Lipstick was not used, but clear pomade would be applied to add sheen. However some of these products contained a dye to discretely enhance natural lip color. For a healthy look, red beet juice would be rubbed into the cheeks, or the cheeks would be pinched (out of sight, of course). For bright eyes, a drop of lemon juice in each eye would do the trick. When makeup began to resurface, full makeup was still seen as sinful, although natural tones were accepted to give a healthy, pink-cheek look.

The real evolution actually began during the 1910's. By then, women made their own form of mascara by adding hot beads of wax to the tips of their eyelashes. Some women would use petroleum jelly for this purpose. The first mascara formulated was named after Mabel, the sister of its creator, T. L. Williams, who utilized this method. This mascara is known today as Maybelline. In 1914, Max Factor introduced his pancake makeup. Vogue featured Turkish women using henna to outline their eyes, and the movie industry immediately took interest. This technique made the eyes look larger, and the word "vamp" became associated with these women, vamp being short for vampire.

During this decade, the first pressed powders were introduced which included a mirror and puff for touchups. Pressed powder blush followed soon after. The lipstick metal case, invented by Maurice Levy, became popular. Also, during this time, lipstick was tattooed onto the lips by George Burchett, who was also known as the "Beauty Doctor". This method did not always work, and you can imagine the terrible consequences.

The earliest version of an acid peel was utilized at this time, which was a combination of acid and electric currents applied to the skin. Also, a needle would be used to insert paraffin to the eye area and cheeks, although this, too, was not very successful. Nivea cream made its appearance in Germany, and companies, in order to compete, began creating creams consisting of Vaseline mixed with fragrance.

To help with sagging jowls and double-chins, women could purchase for wear a weird-looking contraption with chin straps, which obviously did not work.

However, the Victorian look remained in fashion until mass makeup marketing came about during the 1920's. The newly emancipated woman of America began to display her independence by free use of red lipstick, which was often scented with cherry. By the late '20's, visible makeup was considered a must by rural women but was still frowned upon by the country girls. During this decade, lip gloss was introduced by Max Factor. New shades of red lipstick were developed, although were soap-based and very drying. The first eyelash curler came on the scene, called Kurlash. Even though it was expensive and difficult to use, this did not detract from its popularity. Mascara in cake and cream form was extremely vogue.

From the 1930's through the 1950's, various movie stars proved to be the models for current trends in makeup. Remember Audrey Hepburn's deeply outlined cat eyes? With the '60's and the hippies came a more liberated makeup look, from white lips and Egyptian-lined eyes to painted images on faces. Heavily lined eyes continued through the '70's and '80's with a wide range of eye shadow colors. Today's trend seems to have reverted to the more natural look with a blending of styles from the past.

In today's world, a woman has literally hundreds of cosmetics to choose from, with a wide variety of colors and uses. For a younger look, the options available are as simple as skin hydrators and rejuvenators, advancing to chemical skin peels, the now-popular Botox, collagen injections, and ending with the more-drastic surgical facelift.

It is important to reflect on one's inner beauty as the real beauty of a woman. Outer beauty will not remain forever, no matter what drastic measures are taken. We have all heard the saying, "The eyes are the windows to the soul". Look into your own orbits, take stock of the woman inside, and be happy with who you are. This will reflect on your outlook on life, which will send a message to others, and will be returned to you through their reactions to the beautiful you.

...and while we all agree less is more and the natural look is best...
... my goal is healthy make-up...

 

[GMT]

erm, may I just quickly point out that deoderants are to de odorise or in english take away smell. Perfumes are designed to overpower other smells. So who ever was talking about perfumes, I'm afraid that is intended for the purpose of deception. A good wash makes for more enjoyable time spent with someone rather than nipping to the bar for a breath of fresh air.

 

[PhenoMenal]

I dont wear any makeup, but damnit if I did i reckon i'd look bloody alright

I miss the days of hair metal, check out these four strapping lads ...

 

[Pops]

In the 1800's ,both men and women looked like Tammy Faye, with tons of makeup and perfume. The ones who could afford it, of course. As H3ad said, people have been adorning themselves since the beginning of time. Some for religious purposes, some for asthetic. Far too many ladies use makeup to emulate someone else or please someone else. That usually denotes a lack of self respect. Women should always be able to dress and wear make-up to please themselves. That is not always possible in a country like ours that places an undue emphasis on female beauty. Perhaps, in a century or two, we will finally realize that true beauty comes from within and that a little makeup is just icing on the cake.

GMT, body fat is very often genetically determined. There are three main physical types"

Ectomorphic- Delicate build,flat chest,lean/thin,lightly muscled,small shouldered,linear physique. Examples would be Brad Pitt,Edward Norton and Seth Green

Mesomorphic- Athletic,hard,muscular body,thick shin,gains fat more easily than Ectomorph,heavy hair texture. Examples are Bruce Willis,Sylvester Stallone

Endomorph- Soft body,underdeveloped muscles,round physique, weight loss is difficult, gains muscle easily like mesomorph. Examples are John Goodman, RoseAnne Barr

Ultimately,diet,exercise and metabolism have great effects.Metabolism can be genetically determined. Some whole populations are sometimes one particular body type,such as Nilotic Negroes in Africa.

There are also extreme conditions,such as steatopigia, which cause genetically determined fat build up on buttocks and thighs. Mostly this is a female trait of women in Africa(Khoisan) and affect many groups. It is usually accompanied by labia that sometimes extend as much as 4" outside the vulva. The condition allows for maximum respiration and evaporation in hot areas, and allows women to draw off fat storage so they may reproduce in times of low food supply.

There you go,GMT, a ton of facts that you probably really didn't want to know. The Force is now weak within me and I must meditate.

 

[GMT]

Pops, regardless of your genetic make up, the simple formula for everyone is : High fat intake and low fat usage = more fat retained in the body. Therefore : Low fat intake and usage of fat taken in = low fat retention.
On the women emulating the women they see on tv and in magazines bit, remember that when taking photos (and in the case of tv 25 photos a second), a lot of light is used in order to bounce the image off the subject and onto the film. Without makeup in these situations, the skin would look so washed out you would have trouble making out the main features. So make is applied to everyone appearing on tv, even the fellas. So if more people will see you in pictures than in flesh, you need heavy make up, but if more will see you in the flesh than your pictures, then we prefer the less is more look.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s5/obesity

The truth about body shape...