Mag Deff? Pics and lots of Info Please help!

[Row]

Hey dudes,

Thanks for the reply's "D

The bottom leaves are starting to fall off from what looks like N def, but it could be normal anyway as im just at the start of week 5,

i would say it defiantly didnt start with the bottom leaves, the first things i noticed were the yellowish spots/blotches and it progressed from there to limey plants and yellow N deff looking bottom leaves, the whole plant was looking limey before the bottom leaves really started to yellow and fall off,

I really hope the epsom salts help and that adding them at the start of week 5 isnt to late...

Row

 

[bron2k]

bro i'm doing grand daddy purples and i think they're pretty similar! i'll probably going to give them a light foliar feed with some epsom salt tonight so i'll let you know how that turns out. i think we can get this fix if everyone keeps giving us their thoughts on it. thanks everyone!!

inreplyavalon- so sweet from botanicare is mostly mg? cuz i have some of that and rather use that then epsom salt. thanks..

 

[Kindman69]

Row, I reread your first post, and you state:
"First signs seem to b e slight yellow spots/blotches, Plants that are effected are lighter shade of green, have blotchy yellow/lighter patches on the leaves, older leaves are very yellow and look like N deff and normal as there low in the canopy. Most effected plants are under the lights, this is what leads me to believe its a deficiency not a lock out, many plants not under the light are darker green."

I'd like to see it this way: Lock outs are always followed by deficiencies.
The plants under the light use more nutes due to increased photosynthesis, therefore, if there is a lock out, the plants under the light will be affected first and more severe.

I would go further and say that you must also consider that the lockout may not be caused by ph flux (very likely though considering that you do not monitor ph within the bed and you had successful grows in this space before), but maybe by a possible environmental factor i.e. poor ventilation, co2 depletion, out-gassing etc. You state that you run a sealed space, has it been sealed during your prior successful grows?

What do you think?

Kindman

Here is a pic of a plant that was hit by out-gassing of DBP just so see how similar it can look. The 2nd pic is a group shoot of the poisoned bunch lol.

 

[Row]

Hey guys thanks for the repys,

Interesting what you are saying about the lock out Kindman, this could be the case, but id be surprised if it was from the to much fert as they'v been fed very lightly this time round and 2 different recipes on either side of the room, but they both showed it at the same time, as if when then plant got to that stage in its life, it said nope not enough of xxx,

It could be Ph this is very possible and one of the reasons i hate freaking soil, no ph control other than making sure you ph your feed and water well and i do. Even in pots run offs and flushing salts is not really that practical when you have a few hundred plants, and impossible in the beds, I am going to do the soil in a jug with water thing though, just been busy filling pots for some clones to go into, and repainting the veg room ,

The off gasing thing, hmm well this is actaully my first grow in this space, however they veged up great and went through to week 3-4 with no sighns of anything but health,

Heres a veg pic, the plants going in were, erm, shit, so there not that great of a plant, but you can see there nice and healthy,

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Row

 

[Row]

Ill post my feed recipes here to, encase that helps, there dam good recipes in case anyone wants to give them a try ,

Im going to drop what ever one does worse this round and try the better along side "THE RECIPE" from REZDOG, but ill add dry KB at the end i think.....

Never had less than 1.6lb per light with the recipe that uses GH3 part Big bud and Carbo load, Its my first time using the GH, Original PBP Bloom, Super natural Bud blaster and carbo load recipe,

The guy that gave me the first one does 2-2.5!!! in POTS with a good yielding strain mind you, he's a friend of a friend of a friend though or id get him to come tell me what the problem is

Back in a mo with Recipe spam

Row

 

[bron2k]

they're looking real nice and healthy bro! so no sign of our mysterious deficiency? are you using 600 or 1k and how many plants?

 

[Row]

Note im using this recipe but trying 6.0 ph all through as i know a guy that does real well using 5.9 ph through flower and to me it seems more logical to go with a more hydro orientated ph...

All Measurements are ml per gallon

Bid bud and Carbo load are ml per 50 gal

PH Micro Grow Bloom Carbo Big Bud Mega Bud

Week 1 6.0 5 5 5 25

Week 2 6.2 4 3 10 30

Week 3 6.5 8 3 12 30 30

Week 4 6.0 5 3 10 0 0 1

Week 5 6.2 8 3 15 50

Week 6 6.5 7 2.5 17 50 35

Week 7 6.6 7 0 20 60

Week 8 6.6 6 0 20 60

Flush for 10 days

Use's "The original Pure blend Bloom"

ph 6.0 all through

PBP recipe

Micro Grow Bloom PBP Liquid KB Carbo Supernatural Bud Blaster


Week 1 3 3 3 20 2 25

Week 2 3 2 4 20 3 30

Week 3 3 2 4 20 3 30 1

Week 4 3 2 5 20 3 35 1

Week 5 3 2 6 20 4 50

Week 6 3 2 7 20 3 50

Week 7 3 0 8 20 0 60 2

Week 8 3 0 9 20 0 60 2

Flush for 10 days

Gah, all my tabs were removed when i posted it, so its all squashed together, but you get the idea.... i may edit it later for clarity

Enjoy

Row

 

[Row]

Hey Bron2k,

That was a pic from in veg, and no sign untill week 3-4 for me

Using 1ks and about 20 plants per light i prefer to go with more like 30 but i was lacking plants from having to wait till i finished the build etc.....

Row

 

[Row]

Fed them some epsom salts, im just praying it helps!!!

The problem is definitely getting worse , it has progressed to there being a small amount of purple in between the veins on the top leaves that are going yellow, (like a phosphorous) deficiency, starting, could also be strain as the PK leaves go very purple towards the end.

Ill get a pic up later today.

Row

 

[bron2k]

damn bro sorry to hear that. Did it get worse from the Epsom salt? cuz ifthats the case I'm not going to use it. Please keep me updated and I'll let u know what's going on with mine.

 

[Row]

No dude,

I noticed the beginnings of the purple when i was watering with the epsom,

Ill know in a few days or maybe even today but i doubt it, if it made a difference..

Im still hoping someone will look at the pics and know exactly what the problem is

Row

 

[Row]

bump because i dont think the problem is solved, or its to late for the epsom salts to completely fix it, but every ones opinions are great as it just gets me thinking in different ways and about stuff it could be that i hadn't thought about before, and it would just be awesome for someone who was sure to chime in,

ill get a few updated pics up later, its not going to be the end of the world, the plants look ok and the harvest looks to be fairly good, say 1.3-1.6 per light, but for a sick sealed room its not that great and really should be more like 1.8-2lb. this is a huge guess as you never know till its dry

Row

 

[GorillaGrower]

Hey Row I'm pretty sure the problem is your using water that doesn't have any cal/mag in it and your soiless mix is well too soilless.

Your mix doesn't have any Cal/mg to release into the plant and it also does not have any to buffer the ph. Definetly put lime in your mix or consider adding that and maybe a little compost or prepared potting mix with ferts.

then use water that has some hardness to it. tap water from a well works.. but sometimes if too high you have to use an ro filter. If you have some relatively hard water mix that with your clean rain water.. look for a ppm above 100 below say 200. Then work from there with your waterings.

I hope this helps.. I never had a problem till I tried using Ro water with promix w/o adds.. with out something to buffer the ph problems everywhere.

I would nute pure ro then ph.. the ph would always swing low when I could check it after going through pure promix w/ extra perlite.

 

[MynameStitch]

This problem is simple, for one you WANT them to show this with how far into flowering they are. Mary J correctly diagnosed it. If the plant does not have enough nitrogen, depending on how bad the shortage is they move it to other leaves, newer to semi-older leaves..... so if the nitrogen deficiency is right on the line to slightly low, you will get spotting yellow leaves just like that.

As for the upper part, you Do have some slightly heat stress, dry heat that is from the 1kbeing a little to close.

So the only thing I would do is slightly move the light up.

I don't see any magnesium problem..... I can see where people think it is due to the interveinal chlorosis... but with the nitrogen deficiency being right on the line it's causing "splotch" marks random on the leaves.....

As for the nitrogen, do not do anything, this is normal around this time and the plant is flushing itself of nitrogen, congrats on fine plants, you have given your plants the perfect amount of nutes it needed to get through flowering!!!

 

[Row]

Hey Mynamestitch,

Thanks for the reply and time to look at my problem.

Im really happy you think the plants look good, its also really helpful to know what the problem is so i know for sure next time i see that what it is, and i guess ill just keep feeding them what i have been .

I knew the tops were a little heat stressed like you say from the bulb as apposed to the air temp, i had far to large plants going into the room and didnt want them to stretch and they ended up a little heat stressed.

I do have one question though, do you think i should start using some form of cal/mag addative as i use 0ppm water?, eith epsom salts or calmag + etc?

Heres some pics of what they look like now, early week 6, 3 and bit weeks left

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[GET MO]

Lookin good man, I was gonna say flush then immediately feed with some higher doses of food, thats what solved my problem when I had it like that. Also you say your plants dont get wet enough to get a run off?

 

[Row]

Aye Get mo, there in 10" deep beds so to saturate one and get run off would leave it wet for 5 days - a week, they get watered with 18gal each bed (4' x 8') and its enough to get the bed wet right to the bottom but not get any run off. I know this is the down side to the beds, but there are up sides, huge root space and easy watering.

Im actually thinking about using way more perlight this time round at the moment its 1 bail promix to 1 big bag chunky perlight, im thinking of going to 1 bail promix - 1.5 bags perlight, then it will dry out quicker, and i could probably get run off with out it making the soil so wet it didnt dry for 5 days, i water every 3 days at the moment, it would be good to get it to every 2 days.

Though i still dont think it is practical to get a 1/3 run off every watering, it would be a serious flood down there. I have been thinking about doing one flush say week 4 to just get the build up out and then carrying on as normal till harvest so at least they get one flush of salts.

Row

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey there get mo, how things going friend?

Row, if you use low ppm water aka soft water.... then you must supplement with a cal-mag type nutrients..... you will also try to need to supplement them with iron zinc and so forth..... 9 times out of 10, cal mag, sensi cal or other micronutrient products will work just fine.

zinc is used extremely little with cannabis... the most important micronutes you want to look for is magnesium calcium, iron, sulfur and lastly zinc.

the rest are used so very little that if there is a problem with other micros, then there is a problem with the plants environment that it is not getting what it needs; by means of pH, heat, too much nutes, wrong mixture of soil and so forth.

 

[Row]

Thanks for the info, ill start using cal mag to bring my water upto 200ppm, before adding anhy 3 part.

The thing i dont get is that isnt there enough in the micro from the 3 part GH ferts?, also the cal mag has N in it and im worried that it will push me into N toxicity.

Row

 

[MynameStitch]

Whoa, you don't need to use it that much, start out low, cause that is tended to be "hard water" you don't want it to be too high, cause sometimes it can cause disruption with the absorbtion of other nutrients.

Ya, the GH 3 part is a complete set that should work just fine. I was just comenting on the question you asked about using low ppm water and having to use cal mnag suppliments.
The question you asked now is totaly different; but yes the 3 part will be fine to use and is complete.

Just make sure you mix it properly and add micros first.

How much N are you using right now? Add all the first number up.....