Looking for info on living soil

[Growdo Baggins]

I found the living soil thread on here and I'm going to begin to read through it. I was just concerned bc it was from 10 years ago and Science is finding new things all the time, so I didn't know if maybe there was more recent info if it applies. I'm new to this but I've been learning a lot from Teaming With Microbes and Nutrients. My initial thought was to purchase soil through kis organics bc they'll basically teach me everything I need to know. But the more I learn the more I think I can do it myself. Plus I'm worried they're just going to throw kis nutrient packs at me and kis compost tea and not actually teach me how to just grow using organic inputs. I'm new to growing as well but have had 3 successful harvests with fox farm nutrients and soil. I was most likely going to use Coots recipe using Malibu BU compost. I was hoping for maybe a good book or thread or website recommendation. Or anything that can help me better understand what I need to make a good living soil.

 

[NSPB]

Basic Organic Soil Mixes

My personal cloning medium which makes roughly 1.5 cu ft: 5 gal peat 2.75 gal coir .75 gal EWC .75 gal composted cow manure .5 gal chunky perlite .5 gal vermiculite Cloning Amendment Recipe: 2/3c crab meal 2/3c kelp meal 2/3c pH mineral mix* 2 tbsp DE/Calcium Bentonite 1 tbsp Bio-Vam 1 tbsp...

www.icmag.com

 

[Holeshot51]

Easy….
Coco coir( good quality)
Worm castings
Biochar
Kelp meal
Powdered mixed rock dust
All you need really to grow big buds , with extremely healthy plants
. I add a few worms, spread some green manure seed mix or I really like (Chia seeds ) They sprout really quickly and are loaded with calcium , amino acids and many other micro nutrients. I then .lmulch with lucerne or sugarcane mulch.
As the seeds grow I cut them off or turn over the mulch the with seedlings in it.
The worms just go mad for it.
The idea is to let the worms and the bacteria do the work on whatever you are feeding at the top.

 

[Llano_oasis]

1/3 castings or compost, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 peat or promix. Then add you ammendments no need to get crazy I use a 4 4 4 and kelp, gypsum and lime for my base, mix in 2-8-4 at flip or topdress for flower. There are pretty complete premixed organic amendments such as dr earth or gaia. No need to gather all inputs individually unless you really want to.

 

[Growdo Baggins]

I'm finding it very expensive to try to use all pumice. I've read the differences between pumice and lava rock and it seems like I could get away with using 2 part pumice 2 part lava rock and one part rice hulls. What do you guys think?

 

[Bio boy]

1/3 castings or compost, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 peat or promix. Then add you ammendments no need to get crazy I use a 4 4 4 and kelp, gypsum and lime for my base, mix in 2-8-4 at flip or topdress for flower. There are pretty complete premixed organic amendments such as dr earth or gaia. No need to gather all inputs individually unless you really want to.

What is the peat portion really for ? It’s npk void and if you compost is fluffy and loose why do we need it ? My compost says ya can just grow in the bag so why do I dileute it to peat ?

 

[Airloom]

What is the peat portion really for ? It’s npk void and if you compost is fluffy and loose why do we need it ? My compost says ya can just grow in the bag so why do I dileute it to peat ?

You mentioned Coot so BAS might be a resource, especially this time of year in Co…….
I found Ed Rosenthal soil recipe in November looking up something else and he really explains soil dynamics well. Uses a cement mixer to mix his soil lol
I’ll try to find the link
I have the info in my notes but forgot to copy/paste the url

 

[Airloom]

What is the peat portion really for ? It’s npk void and if you compost is fluffy and loose why do we need it ? My compost says ya can just grow in the bag so why do I dileute it to peat ?

How to Make Your Own Cannabis Planting Mix to Maximize Your Marijuana Harvest — Ed Rosenthal

Ed Rosenthal’s step by step planting mix recipe will provide your cannabis roots with a healthful environment that promotes a vigorous marijuana plant.

www.edrosenthal.com

Pretty good info IMHO esp the on peat and on coco and vermiculite

 

[Llano_oasis]

What is the peat portion really for ? It’s npk void and if you compost is fluffy and loose why do we need it ? My compost says ya can just grow in the bag so why do I dileute it to peat ?

A good medium for the right amount of water retention/drainage. My home compost is more of a hummus, it serves better as an ammendment for my uses. If you can plant directly into your bag of compost I'm guessing it already has peat or coco, and some aeration in there.

 

[Llano_oasis]

The promix moisture potting mix I've been getting has both peat and coco in it. But I guess in a nutshell the reason I use peat or that stuff is for its water retention and drainage properties and that it's pretty light on the wallet.

 

[Bio boy]

A good medium for the right amount of water retention/drainage. My home compost is more of a hummus, it serves better as an ammendment for my uses. If you can plant directly into your bag of compost I'm guessing it already has peat or coco, and some aeration in there.

It’s a bracken comfrey mix so yeah ya can stand on it and it fluffs right back at ya I’d say looks like a woody peat soil
holds water very well has 2years food inside

 

[KIS]

I found the living soil thread on here and I'm going to begin to read through it. I was just concerned bc it was from 10 years ago and Science is finding new things all the time, so I didn't know if maybe there was more recent info if it applies. I'm new to this but I've been learning a lot from Teaming With Microbes and Nutrients. My initial thought was to purchase soil through kis organics bc they'll basically teach me everything I need to know. But the more I learn the more I think I can do it myself. Plus I'm worried they're just going to throw kis nutrient packs at me and kis compost tea and not actually teach me how to just grow using organic inputs. I'm new to growing as well but have had 3 successful harvests with fox farm nutrients and soil. I was most likely going to use Coots recipe using Malibu BU compost. I was hoping for maybe a good book or thread or website recommendation. Or anything that can help me better understand what I need to make a good living soil.

This is Tad over at KIS. I still check out this forum from way back in the day when I used to be CT Guy. I'm only commenting on this because you mentioned KIS Organics. We do try to help teach folks how to grow and also properly amend their soils but it can be complicated. I had a few thoughts that I'll share below.

1. When formulating a soil mix, you want to start with your compost. You can get a lot of variability in compost quality, even from the same manufacturer between batches or geographical locations. Compost and EWC can be high in K or Mg for example and you want to know and account for this in your formulation.

2. Water quality can vary quite a bit. Water can bring in high levels of everything from Ca to Na to heavy metals. If your water for example is high in Ca, then you want to know this and account for it when you amend.

3. You can absolutely do it yourself. Just be aware that your results can vary and without soil testing you won't know exactly what you have in your soil. For many folks, that's just fine and they don't care. Others want to get that aspect dialed in as much as possible.

4. Our Nutrient Pack is my "best guess" to hit sufficiency on macro and micro nutrients, knowing that folks may use different compost/EWC sources, so it's not perfect based off my first comment. If you were to use peat, and Oly Compost and our EWC like we do in our mix I could confidently say what your soil test will look like and your grow experience, but that may not be practical based on where you live for shipping purposes.

5. Coot's mix is all centered around his earthworm castings, which according to him are very high quality. That's the key ingredient. Many growers have had good success using that recipe but when folks struggle to get the results this is Coot's standard answer. "It's only Coot's mix if you're using my worm castings." I'm not sharing that to deter you, but just to highlight how important using quality compost/castings is to the recipe. It's really the cornerstone of the entire formulation process.

6. It might be a good idea to stick with your current methodology if it's working well and setup 1 container/bed with a custom soil mix so you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. This is a great way to learn more over time and dial in the process and your recipe. And if things don't go as well as you wanted, then you'll still have a harvest you can rely on since you're current grow method is working. I think long term you'll want to make the switch but don't want to risk crop loss or a smaller harvest as you're learning.

Hope that helps and best of luck in your grow!

 

[Growdo Baggins]

This is Tad over at KIS. I still check out this forum from way back in the day when I used to be CT Guy. I'm only commenting on this because you mentioned KIS Organics. We do try to help teach folks how to grow and also properly amend their soils but it can be complicated. I had a few thoughts that I'll share below.

1. When formulating a soil mix, you want to start with your compost. You can get a lot of variability in compost quality, even from the same manufacturer between batches or geographical locations. Compost and EWC can be high in K or Mg for example and you want to know and account for this in your formulation.

2. Water quality can vary quite a bit. Water can bring in high levels of everything from Ca to Na to heavy metals. If your water for example is high in Ca, then you want to know this and account for it when you amend.

3. You can absolutely do it yourself. Just be aware that your results can vary and without soil testing you won't know exactly what you have in your soil. For many folks, that's just fine and they don't care. Others want to get that aspect dialed in as much as possible.

4. Our Nutrient Pack is my "best guess" to hit sufficiency on macro and micro nutrients, knowing that folks may use different compost/EWC sources, so it's not perfect based off my first comment. If you were to use peat, and Oly Compost and our EWC like we do in our mix I could confidently say what your soil test will look like and your grow experience, but that may not be practical based on where you live for shipping purposes.

5. Coot's mix is all centered around his earthworm castings, which according to him are very high quality. That's the key ingredient. Many growers have had good success using that recipe but when folks struggle to get the results this is Coot's standard answer. "It's only Coot's mix if you're using my worm castings." I'm not sharing that to deter you, but just to highlight how important using quality compost/castings is to the recipe. It's really the cornerstone of the entire formulation process.

6. It might be a good idea to stick with your current methodology if it's working well and setup 1 container/bed with a custom soil mix so you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. This is a great way to learn more over time and dial in the process and your recipe. And if things don't go as well as you wanted, then you'll still have a harvest you can rely on since you're current grow method is working. I think long term you'll want to make the switch but don't want to risk crop loss or a smaller harvest as you're learning.

Hope that helps and best of luck in your grow!

That's very helpful and thanks for the reply.

I just sent a water sample off to Logan's lab yesterday after I read your blog about it. I'm using this spring water from a local spring. Everyone drinks it and I've always been curious about what's in it, but I hadn't gotten around to checking it out until I read that blog. The first thing I ever read concerning living soil was your blog about 7 important things.

This is going to sound like I'm gushing, but I also started a vermicompost bin, a couple of them, after listening to Coots on your podcast. I got kelp and alfalfa meal and malted barley. But I was told too much of all that can be bad. I'm not sure bc I listened to that episode 3 times and Coot's says that all he feeds them. I've been continuing to mix in kitchen scraps that I blend up though, just to keep it diverse. I got the Intelligent Gardener on audio book after listening to Steve Solomon on your show and am using Tim Wilson's design for a compost tea brewer also after hearing him on your show. I also got Teaming With Nutrients in audio book but it's way past me and something I'd have to sit down and actually read. I'm on episode 50 or so of the podcast. Just finished the episode with Dr Ben which is cool bc he has put together a blumat set up for me that I'm going to order after my wife finally spits out this new kid, lol. Plus the holidays. He's been very helpful. I really wanted to get your soil but shipping to where I live costs more than the soil even costs. My initial thought was that cost of the shipping was nothing when compared to what you guys could teach me. But I think I jumped the gun and maybe misunderstood Brandon when I talked to him. Getting solid info online is spotty and I don't always know where to look. I've got forums and I can sometimes find great info and really helpful people on here. But when he said he'd walk me through a couple grows and help me read soil tests and amend based on those tests, I just took it a little further and thought I'd have a consultant or something to answer all my questions and teach me everything there is to know about organic inputs. It was how I was justifying in my head spending that much on soil and shipping. But last week I found a dang hydro store in my state, not too far from where I live! They carry Malibu compost which I thought may be good enough to use to cook my own living soil. After pricing it out I could do the 2x4 bed I initially wanted but couldn't afford, plus blumats for the whole thing for the same price as a 30 gallon pot. However your #6 comment was a really good point and made me stop and think. But when I put my mind to learning something I usually do okay. That was another reason why I decided to try to make the soil myself. I really like kis organics. I think the info you're spreading about organics is helping the world. I know you're making your living doing it, but that's cool, and even better bc I know I have a place to go to get quality amendments. The ones that have free shipping, lol. Really cool to hear from you, I've been listening to you talk for a month now.

 

[KIS]

Glad to hear the podcast has been helpful in your gardening! And yes shipping can be a killer with soil, so we do try and help folks with amendments or sourcing things locally where it's possible. And Brandon is really good at explaining and understanding soil tests. He's had to draw the line with focusing on folks using our soil just because of time constraints. I'm glad he was helpful though.

Malibu is not my favorite compost. Honestly the compost you're making will probably be better. I'd try and find or make some earthworm castings if possible. They tend to be higher quality and more balanced in my experience.

Happy gardening!