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Lookie Here
- Thread starter vta
- Start date
I thought you were asking for healthy debate. Several times you called our for a reasonable reason to vote yes. I feel that you are throwing in your hat and saying lets agree to disagree. I was disappointed by that, I like healthy debate.
Ok, how about Samuel Adams beer. Sierra Nevada. Gueness? None are the best, but I am so glad I can order these at a bar in pretty much every major city (nationwide).
It sure does. At least $60,000,000 was spent last year on busting Cannabis users in California. Also, did you know currently that the smell of Cannabis gives an officer the right to search? Just do a google-news search on cannabis; you can find several news articles from officers statewide that say that Cannabis is illegal and they think that Medical Cannabis is a sham. Yep, they are still putting people in jail. People are still getting convicted. It has taken courageous people to take these to the supreme court to get clarity. Even after the supreme court rulings, you still have cowboy officers not following the law.
Yes, I actually know very many CEO's of medium to large corporations. I also have a decent understanding employment law, as I work in this area. Just because a company is national, doesn't mean they don't have to adhere to local laws. After prop19, companies will have to not discriminate. Yes, I am sure someone will have to test this, but most companies won't touch this at all. These are the kind of cases that can break your company.
My buddy is one of the best home brewers I have ever seen. Amazing stuff. He was trained by some of the best. We have talked at length about making money in it, and it's very difficult just to break even let alone make enough to pay the bills and have some spending money left over.
Well, personally I don't like to lie. Not saying that I have never lied before, but it's an ethics thing. I know I am not alone with this. Shouldn't there be safe access for everyone? Having to lie doesn't make it safe for many people.
As a property owner, I wouldn't want just anyone to throw up a huge grow in my property/home. I have myself made the mistake of leaving the water on and to come to my grow space flooded. This causes MAJOR damage. A lot of times it's easy to clean up and no one can tell until several years later when problems develop. I think that property owners should have the right to ensure that if someone grows on their property, that safety precautions are taken (float valves, drainage, fire extinguisher, etc). It's like if someone started a full-on car mechanic's shop on a property, the owner should be able to know about this too. Chances are that if a mechanic is taking on several customers per day, and working on cars in the yard, that toxic chemicals will find their way in the ground.
It does not say you need to have permission from your landlord! That is not true!! All it says is that a landlord can tell you not to grow...it never ever said you need permission.
Mr Celsius, they don't understand the trade off we will be making. We have people here over exaggerate the hassle of getting a med card, and the amount of freedom they will have vs what we have now.
The doctors and the cops KNOW its an exploit, that's the beautiful thing about it. Of course the "they" know we are lying, everyone does, AND ITS ACCEPTED. Look how far we have come on a "lie".
Personally I view the med system as an ideal privilege "they" are letting us have (Obama especially so far). Its a system that is intact currently which keeps it in our hands the best it can. We are so lucky to have it, I guess those that have no chance of benefiting from our current system would like to see it change.
There really is no way to explain to them. You are doing a good job trying but I think its one of those things either you get it or you don't. Also you have to consider if some of the people who want these changes are envious of those who are benefiting from it. The classic moocher/looter/producer scenario. There is to many moochers theses days and they will vote for what benefits them at the expense of the producer.
Iv given up on the argument we will just have to see what happens in Nov. Its clear to me now a lot of the yes crew on icmag don't give a shit about mom and pop or anyone else for that matter(though they say they care about people going to jail),a one sided approach that shows they pick and choose who or what they care about.
The doctors and the cops KNOW its an exploit, that's the beautiful thing about it. Of course the "they" know we are lying, everyone does, AND ITS ACCEPTED. Look how far we have come on a "lie".
Personally I view the med system as an ideal privilege "they" are letting us have (Obama especially so far). Its a system that is intact currently which keeps it in our hands the best it can. We are so lucky to have it, I guess those that have no chance of benefiting from our current system would like to see it change.
There really is no way to explain to them. You are doing a good job trying but I think its one of those things either you get it or you don't. Also you have to consider if some of the people who want these changes are envious of those who are benefiting from it. The classic moocher/looter/producer scenario. There is to many moochers theses days and they will vote for what benefits them at the expense of the producer.
Iv given up on the argument we will just have to see what happens in Nov. Its clear to me now a lot of the yes crew on icmag don't give a shit about mom and pop or anyone else for that matter(though they say they care about people going to jail),a one sided approach that shows they pick and choose who or what they care about.
Of all the Anti's...you seem to stand out the most to me in regards to "I gots mine" and "I'm gonna lose money...my tax free ride"
Well here is the thing...I already gots mine. My income is padded with extra cash because I get compensated for my effort in bringing top quality medicine to people that need it most. Do I think that will change with 19? Maybe...but I doubt it. In fact 19 and ABX6 9 will finally give ME the opportunity to take my gear public without the fear of arrest. I can live a life long dream of legitimately running a Cannabiz. Who knows, maybe I will be successful, maybe I won't. For me to think that it is better with only 215 would be against my own moral principals. I know first hand how the prohibition of marijuana can ruin or cause a major kink in ones lives. And it's ridiculous. So...your Mom and Pop...well if they are smart they will get their shit together and take advantage of legalization. The State has their shit together, and they are ready for passage of 19. They have a bill that sets the stage for running a legitimate, morally accepted cannabis related business. And I want one!!
To me, it's very obvious your against 19 and legalization for personal reasons....And hey that is cool...everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But it's time for cannabis to come out. And only a complete dumb ass would argue that we need a prop with no regulation or no limits. Like that would win. But hey...some people just want the black market, they like the tax free money..fuk the 80,000 that get drug convictions every year here or the 10,000 or so that get felonies for growing. Like they deserve to go to jail just because they didn't want to lie and make an excuse to get a card.
Truth is cannabis is not worth what it is being sold for now....at least not in a free market. Legalization will also bring stronger competition. And I think these two are what you fear most.
i usually dont respond to your posts...all the "passive aggressive" "talking out the side of your neck" bull...er...crud...i assume your a lady(foxy doe) and i dont like arguing w the ladies...but i saw this, and i just HAD to point out...
1) you dont understand the trade off either...NO ONE does yet...its all gonna be changin...this something BOTH sides have to understand cuz most arguments here have no answers yet...so your fear mongering DOES NOT WORK
2) ITS NOT ACCEPTED..it was rammed down the establishments fukn throats after years of hard work and they DONT HAVE ANY CHOICE in the matter, yet we still spend millions of dollars and arrest thousands of people a year
3)IT IS NOT A PRIVELEGE...and THEY did not LET US HAVE IT, NOR DO THEY CONTINUE TO LET US HAVE IT....
----i think VTA pretty much summed up what i already felt about where your opinion is coming from...and i notice that still no anti's have given a shot at defeating my argument for the moral reasons to vote yes on any of the threads....am i on every anti's ignore list(which wouldnt surprise me after i made very clear what my opinion of them was) or would you like to take a shot at it?
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Another thing I just can't understand about all this "Prop 215 already gives us Cannabis freedom" talk, is if we are so free then why are Dispensaries still getting shutdown by Local & State authorities? Like fully legit ones?
Why is it that there were TONS of raids/shutdowns/arrests for dispensaries, mom&pop growers, etc, between 1996 and 2004? It took SB420 before things calmed down a few notches. Though, public rights have since been violated time and time again.
It took a signal from Obama before the HUGE influx of dispensaries and growers started. Last year, in the bay area, there were probably 1/50th of the dispensaries & growers then there is now. Since Obama's signal, Cannabis growers, dispensaries, coops, have come out in amazing numbers.
Sadly, our officers and politicians don't have clarity on this issue (prop 215 is very gray). If we pass Prop 19, it will change everything for the better. Clearly, without a single doubt, Cannabis will be legal to use and grow in California. No questions, no gray.
Right now, several counties and cities are passing ordinances that ban Cannabis. There are many counties and cities who are in the process of trying to pass these ordinances. Why is this? Many reasons, but one of the main ones is that Prop 215 isn't organized in such a way that makes counties & cities comfortable. So they pass these ordinances and continue to steal our freedom away. What if your county passed an emergency ordinance against cannabis in your county? I bet you would feel different about Prop 19.
Prop 19 makes Cannabis acceptable from legal and especially a social aspect. It's the lies and negative stigma that needs to be destroyed. Prop 19 will help that.
Why is it that there were TONS of raids/shutdowns/arrests for dispensaries, mom&pop growers, etc, between 1996 and 2004? It took SB420 before things calmed down a few notches. Though, public rights have since been violated time and time again.
It took a signal from Obama before the HUGE influx of dispensaries and growers started. Last year, in the bay area, there were probably 1/50th of the dispensaries & growers then there is now. Since Obama's signal, Cannabis growers, dispensaries, coops, have come out in amazing numbers.
Sadly, our officers and politicians don't have clarity on this issue (prop 215 is very gray). If we pass Prop 19, it will change everything for the better. Clearly, without a single doubt, Cannabis will be legal to use and grow in California. No questions, no gray.
Right now, several counties and cities are passing ordinances that ban Cannabis. There are many counties and cities who are in the process of trying to pass these ordinances. Why is this? Many reasons, but one of the main ones is that Prop 215 isn't organized in such a way that makes counties & cities comfortable. So they pass these ordinances and continue to steal our freedom away. What if your county passed an emergency ordinance against cannabis in your county? I bet you would feel different about Prop 19.
Prop 19 makes Cannabis acceptable from legal and especially a social aspect. It's the lies and negative stigma that needs to be destroyed. Prop 19 will help that.
I don't live in California but the rest of the nation is EAGER that prop 19 is passed. I can't believe you guys are even fighting over it. Yes it should be legalized ASAP.
Understand that if prop 19 fails, the chance to legalize it again will be 5, maybe 10 years from now, and it will set back the legalization movement quite a bit. The DEA will claim "the people don't want it legalized. Look at what happened with prop 19."
"What's wrong with the laws now? MMJ is pretty much legal" is a STUPID argument.
It's like saying "What's wrong with the laws now in NY? Decriminalization is good enough. You can smoke weed everyday, no criminal record etc."
That's not the point. Fuck MMJ, look at the big picture: Marijuana is a plant that is illegal in every single part of the US and in almost every country the US has a say over. Prop 19 will change this. I figured Californians would be thrilled at being the first to legalize it completely. It's ridiculous but not surprising that potheads would fight over whether to legalize it or not. Humans are generally greedy idiots.
The government CANNOT tell us what drugs we can or cannot take. I can ingest Bleach if I want to, and I can ingest magic mushrooms, smoke weed, drop acid, inject ketamine, and do whatever else I want. It doesn't make sense that the government or anyone else will have a say over what I put into my body.
You aren't getting another bill with no tax, no regulations, that's ridiculous. These small victories are all we have toward complete legalization. We can't just throw opportunities out like this. Do you know how big of an influence on the movement prop 19 will have? Fucking legalize!! Yes on prop 19 motherfuckers. Doesn't the reefer madness bullshit make you pissed? It's time to dismantle that stigma.
Understand that if prop 19 fails, the chance to legalize it again will be 5, maybe 10 years from now, and it will set back the legalization movement quite a bit. The DEA will claim "the people don't want it legalized. Look at what happened with prop 19."
"What's wrong with the laws now? MMJ is pretty much legal" is a STUPID argument.
It's like saying "What's wrong with the laws now in NY? Decriminalization is good enough. You can smoke weed everyday, no criminal record etc."
That's not the point. Fuck MMJ, look at the big picture: Marijuana is a plant that is illegal in every single part of the US and in almost every country the US has a say over. Prop 19 will change this. I figured Californians would be thrilled at being the first to legalize it completely. It's ridiculous but not surprising that potheads would fight over whether to legalize it or not. Humans are generally greedy idiots.
The government CANNOT tell us what drugs we can or cannot take. I can ingest Bleach if I want to, and I can ingest magic mushrooms, smoke weed, drop acid, inject ketamine, and do whatever else I want. It doesn't make sense that the government or anyone else will have a say over what I put into my body.
You aren't getting another bill with no tax, no regulations, that's ridiculous. These small victories are all we have toward complete legalization. We can't just throw opportunities out like this. Do you know how big of an influence on the movement prop 19 will have? Fucking legalize!! Yes on prop 19 motherfuckers. Doesn't the reefer madness bullshit make you pissed? It's time to dismantle that stigma.
Your way off, I ALREADY gots mine well enough I'm not worried about it. I don't like to throw it in peoples faces and I don't talk about it much.
Thing is I know to many families depending on this, on top of that I hate big biz crushing out the little guy. Iv said what I dont like many times on here.
Far as price yeah no shit cannabis is overpriced. You think I like the currant inflation? Competition is already bringing it down. I see people not being able to compete in the game already. I'm all for cheaper prices. Mater a fact I am one of the people helping to make it happen already, in real life outside this forum. I never charge market prices like most "greedy" growers.
You basically just trolled on me. Maybe you didn't mean to but your attempt to profile me failed.
"And I think these two are what you fear " this is the worse of them all... I been growing 20 plus years I got my shit down to such a degree I wont mention on this forum, fear of competition was never an issue for me.
I guess I need to start posting pics of my proprieties/grows and possessions so I can be taken seriously, and not be viewed as someone with their own fears and motivations as their primary concern.
I have land in so hum and trin, I stand to make a lot more than I already have if things go in the direction they might after prop 19 passes. Sad thing is I will watch alot of friends suffer since they are not in that position.
I already know this... It doesn't surprise me at all. I don't want to insult you or talk shit(you came of like a nice guy). Ill just say.. You gotta look past the surface sometimes and think about what a person is really getting at. My views extend beyond myself, you guys just can't see that.
you know what? still not buying it...the moral argument for voting yes trumps everything i have heard.(though i give you props for continuing not to stoop to my level...must be a lady...now i feel guilty again) period. i do not care what any of you people who are able to make a living off herb are saying. i see right through all of it..im not doubting people will get hurt...as i have publicly stated i have family from arcata to ferndale to crescent city to willitz..and beyond...i have FAMILY that is voting no...matter of fact, im in the minority of my own clan...people get hurt in war....and dont jump my shit, im not comparing this to actual military battles..but it is war nonetheless, and people have to sacrifice for the greater good in a fight like this...like it or not...it will all come around...sigh...i really wonder if i should just stay out of this, i know a lot of people dont like how blunt i am...but im scared that some of the younger folks, impressionable folks will fall for some of the bullshit that is being flung around.
IT IS THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY CALI SMOKER TO VOTE YES ON PROP19....WHETHER ITS A SHITTY BILL OR NOT...SOMEONE PROVE ME WRONG AND I WILL STOP PIMPIN LEE'S BILL
IT IS THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY CALI SMOKER TO VOTE YES ON PROP19....WHETHER ITS A SHITTY BILL OR NOT...SOMEONE PROVE ME WRONG AND I WILL STOP PIMPIN LEE'S BILL
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ok whatever
Trolled you...lol. Like Subrob, I have refrained from debating you thus far because you might be a lady. But I finally said fuk it and gave you my thoughts, too which you refer to as trolling...should of figured as much. Your in here downing this chance of legalization because you know of "some" people that for some unknown bullshit reason can only survive in if there is a black market for cannabis. Sounds like some real winners. Is this something they have said to you, that legalization would kill their income? Because of what? They grow schwag or something? I'm being serious here. Is it too much work? Is running a legitimate business so hard or are they maybe not smart enough to do it? I don't get it! Excuses excuses. Mom and Pop better get with the program or they just might have to do something else. Wait..don't tell me that is all they know how to do? If so then I am really sorry for you and your friends...and maybe I'll reconsider saving eighty thousand people from drug convictions...because of you and the 'people' you know.
Tell us Foxxy...what are you against? And are you for legalization of cannabis?
I didn't call you a troll, I meant what you told me was a troll. I mention the troll word because you really fished up and angle on that one... way off. Rob says I'm full of shit. maybe you think so too. I dunno..
I am down for legalization but I don't/didn't like the way p19 is setup at all. It doesn't have the balance I would be looking for. BUT this ABX6 9 its already looking better.
I don't know what to tell you guys i just say what I feel. maybe sometimes I even contradict myself, I try not to. Its just my opinion on things its not the end of the world. I doubt Im gonna be able to keep prop 19 from passing by talking about it from the angle I do.
Sometimes you guys just come off so one sided I think someone needs to debate against you. Me like others are running outta ammo as things keep getting better. You should be happy.
debate is not what you are looking for...what you are looking for are opportunities to make snide remarks about how 'we' just dont get it...but direct them at someone who agrees w you rather than directly at people...hence, no debate and 'you didnt start it'
---if you want to debate, why dont you take exception to the points i made about your post rather then when i called bullshit? because there is no debate...you fukd up and made a post w out thinking it thru and it made for a horrible argument on your part...nothin wrong w that, ive done it more often than i can count, and will, without question, do it again....but debate is not ignoring it and moving on to the next like nothin happened.
---if you want to debate, why dont you take exception to the points i made about your post rather then when i called bullshit? because there is no debate...you fukd up and made a post w out thinking it thru and it made for a horrible argument on your part...nothin wrong w that, ive done it more often than i can count, and will, without question, do it again....but debate is not ignoring it and moving on to the next like nothin happened.
This sounds a lot like you are saying,
Again, that's just how it sounded to me. I am probably wrong and don't take offense.
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Not a fair assessment in my opinion. Actually, we only just started debating each other. You wanted to quit almost immediately. That's ok, fair enough.
The beer brewing friend has won awards for his beer. He has a pretty impressive setup and is well known in the brewing community. To sell beer you have to have a license. These licenses are not easy to get and are not cheap at all. It's not easy to make money off of beer brewing at home. It's not impossible, but it sure is a lot harder then doing a home hydro grow and selling illegally (while being able to pay bills and have spending money left over). So if people are going to complain about getting licenses and paying taxes, I don't have sympathy. Bassing your livelihood and carrier on an industry that is changing drastically comes with these risks. That's one of the reasons it costs what it does.
I am sorry if you don't like debating me. I am hardly a person who has closed ears and eyes. I think my posts speak for themselves.
