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vta

Active member
Veteran

PLEASE VOTE YES ON PROP 19


If you smoke cannabis or know someone who does and you live in California, this may be the vote you most remember in your life. It is pivotal to the future legal and social status of cannabis consumers everywhere -- a mark of where we stand in society, communities, workplaces, and our families. Will we continue to be subject to arrest, incarceration, asset forfeiture, discriminatory drug testing, loss of jobs, benefits and custody rights, the dangers of the illicit market, and the stigma that marijuana prohibition perpetuates? Is this the next positive step towards exercising our rights as equal partners in society with a growing acceptance and tolerance that common sense cannabis policy holds in store?

This is our historic opportunity to shift a paradigm that has been operating since at least 1937, when the US outlawed marijuana. Prohibition is a scourge wreaking havoc on our lives, devastating our Constitution, and wasting billions of dollars and resources criminalizing a plant and good people who use it. It clogs our courts and our prisons. It has crippled our hemp industries and devastated family farms and forests alike.

The enormity of this moment should not be understated. It has been 38 years since non-medical marijuana legalization was last on the California ballot which, coincidentally also was numbered Prop 19. It's been 14 years since voters passed the Compassionate Use Act, Prop 215. No one knows how long it will be until we have another chance, but we do know that every day people are arrested for marijuana in California.

We are therefore surprised to hear some 'legalizers' oppose Prop 19 to wait for 'something better.' There is only one marijuana legalization initiative on the ballot this year, and there is no guarantee this opportunity will come again anytime soon. So the choice is clear. We urge an enthusiastic vote: "Yes' on Prop 19.

When personal use and cultivation are "lawful activities," it changes everything. No longer will an odor of cannabis be automatic probable cause to search your home or person. No longer will you be labeled a 'criminal,' ticketed and fined over a small bag in your trunk or purse. No longer will you face the inflated prices that prohibition and the illicit market command for cannabis, as prices drop and adults grow their own and share.

If it passes, Prop 19 will make it easier to protect patients' rights and the gains we've made with medical marijuana. Doctors will still need to approve patients' larger dosages and patient collectives will continue to play their unique role in providing access. But no longer will cannabis be an illegal medicine, so both stigma and skepticism will soon fall away. Passing Prop. 19 will send a message to law enforcement and to the cities and counties currently banning and clamping down on medical cannabis dispensaries that voters want legal outlets. Prop 19 will allow for profit as well as non-profit activity, which makes it clear that cities can permit retail sales of medical marijuana as well.

Change of this magnitude cannot always be smooth. The challenge for many of our readers will be to start planning now for how to engage with a safe, legal, regulated, and commercial market in California localities. That may be as consumer, producer, product development, employee, business operator, or entrepreneur in an emerging industry that will bring jobs and new revenue streams to our cash-strapped state. It's not too early to start organizing and lobbying for regulations that benefit and sustain your communities.

We may stand on the dawn of a new era, where all adults 21 and over can use, possess, grow, and share small amounts of cannabis with other adults if they just follow a few simple rules. The whole world is watching and waiting for California to make the first move towards legalization.

Tell your friends and family. Register to vote, volunteer, donate and phone bank for the campaign to help get-out-the-vote. Go to YesOn19.com to see what you can do to get involved. Make this the vote you remember for advancing the rights of cannabis consumers the world over.

This is our time. This is our moment. On Nov. 2, please vote Yes on Prop. 19.




Source: West Coast Leaf (CA)
 
E

el Dream Reader

The only parts that I really don't like about Prop 19 is the parts that say you can't smoke around minors and you can't smoke in public. People drink beer around minors and in public places like at the river or mountains, if they want to regulate cannabis like tobacco and alcohol (which I believe is inaccurate to begin with) they shouldn't put so many stipulations on it. I only hope that it can be voter amended to remove those stipulations. I don't vote anyways, registering in this county pretty much guarantees you jury duty every year. I don't like that sh**. I do hope the prop passes but only to further the cause of true legalization.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
Whats wrong with cheap medical cards and privatization?

Why is commercialization the answer?

If you have a medical, you're just as legal, if not more so.

So whats wrong with whats going on right now?

The big one for me is, under 215 the cops still bust us...especially if we have several pounds in our house...leaving us to have to prove in Court that we are compliant--
If 19 passes....they will not have that option-- The only way they will be able to take anything, is if they can prove sales--:tiphat:
 

Mrgrowem

Active member
Whats wrong with cheap medical cards and privatization?

Why is commercialization the answer?

If you have a medical, you're just as legal, if not more so.

So whats wrong with whats going on right now?

I haven't seen any CHEAP medical recommendations for years. Keeping it illegal will certainly make lots more money for the docs and not everyone can qualify, unless your suggesting the applicant should lie. These are doctors, it will never be cheaper.

Having a medical recommendation does NOT make it legal. It still means you can be arrested and put in jail. It only gives a defense but not in all cases. If it were legal, as set forth by prop 19 there would be no basis to make an arrest.

Whats going on right now is, the cities and counties are having themselves a heyday. I've posted plenty of stories here on ICmag. If it were legal, then the system will have to work within the confines of the law. As it stands right now, there is no law. I've watched the system make up the laws as they go along, and it's never in our favor, at least not in most parts of CA.

If Prop 19 passes, the system will be turned on its head. It's difficult for some to see because we've lived in this world of prohibition for so long. Legal means you'll have nothing to prove because you'll never be arrested since Leo has nothing to arrest you for. All those smells from your weed, your grow, your car, and the list goes on and on are no longer probable cause. So then why would there be a problem with this ? The way Leo does business will change completely. Think of the way it is now, everything you do is probable cause, remove that and there's no reason for the system to be involved intimately in your private life.

Nothing will ever be perfect, when it comes to creating a new freedom of and from the system. Prop 19 will be a powerful deterrent for us to use against the system that has left us behind.

We could go on and on for days about this proposition and the power that lurks beyond it. For whatever it's worth, I hope you all will look deeply and see beyond the fear.
 

Tony Aroma

Let's Go - Two Smokes!
Veteran
No piece of legislation is perfect. In fact, there is no such thing as perfect. Put ten legalization proponents in a room, and I'd bet they couldn't agree on the perfect way to achieve legalization. Perhaps some of you are hermits. But those of us that have lived in society for any length of time know you can NEVER please all the people all the time. Anybody waiting for the perfect legalization scenario will still be waiting on their deathbed. Might as well be waiting for winged unicorns to come take you away to a magical land where the streets are paved in hemp and people live together in peace and harmony.

My point: ANYTHING is better than the situation now. This sort of thing is a process, not a one-time event. Prop 19 is just the first step in that process. Step 1 -- Stop putting people in jail for using cannabis. Worry about the rest of the process later. But you can't finish something that you don't start. And you can't get to step 2 without going through step 1. Prop 19 is the first step in a long process of changing not only our laws, but the public's perception.

PLEASE don't vote NO on Prop 19 just because it isn't perfect. The outcome of this vote will either push the legalization movement forward throughout the country, or stop it dead in its tracks. Your vote will affect us all.
 

partly cloudy

New member
comercialization is the answer because there are no guidelines or regualtions on the growing of medicines right now. Growers are passing PM on to patients, and chemicals that can be hazardous ect..... with regulated cultivation, its garanteed that there are no contaminants in our medicine, growers would have to follow the guidelines set forth. There are shady growers passing off sub quality cannabis with PM and chemicals as high end medicine. regulation will end this practice. It would be a different story if "we" all did the right thing from the begining....... but "we" didnt and right now you can go to any club to pick up your dose of PM! scary thought.

you shouldnt smoke around kids, ie.... second hand smoke. dont want our youngsters getting high when their brains are still just developing. Kids cant ingest beer from second hand drinking. they can ingest cannibis from second hand smoke. NO SMOKING BY THE KIDS......

you shouldnt drive while under the influence of any substance that alters your perception. you can get arrested for this even if it is legalized... so the smell coming from your car? probable cause.

just my 2-cents. voting yes on prop 19.... we need the regulations, sorry to say it. too bad to, but just goes to show how greedy people are that we could not self regulate.

Partly.............
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
Honestly, show me the advantages of Prop 19 over everyone in California that wants to smoke pot, simply getting a medical card. Please, show me (the $50 a year is mute in my book, so don't try).

Here's one--
The big one for me is, under 215 the cops still bust us...especially if we have several pounds in our house...leaving us to have to prove in Court that we are compliant--
If 19 passes....they will not have that option-- The only way they will be able to take anything, is if they can prove sales--:tiphat:

The problem with 215, is that the burden of proof is on us, the Patients, to prove we are compliant-- That is why they can still arrest you, and let it work out in Court--
If 19 passes, the burden of proof will be on the Police Officers, not us--
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
Get your state card, not just your recommendation and sue them if they take your stuff or arrest you. You'll win and profit, but it shouldn't come to that if you have your state card.

Bro, take a look at the 2010 Greenhouse link in my Sig...notice the video on Pg 2...
Under 215, that is all legal...we have all the proper paperwork in place-- But if the cops ever come in there, do you honestly think they are going to say, "Have a nice day Sir.", and leave?? lol
Under Prop 19, we could simply pay for the proper licensing, and do it all without the worry we have now--


Burden of proof will still be on people under prop 19.

"That looks like more then an ounce"
"I'm gonna have to confiscate that and take you in and weigh it"

"I'm gonna have to take you in, you seem like your high. Were going to do a pee test to see if you have a DUI." True story, my bro recently got a DUI for marijuana, under these exact circumstances.

"Your plants are outside the 5'x5' area and you don't have permission from the landlord/owner."

Bro, just stop trying to act like its better in some way... cause its not.

All that is just guessing...I mean for the average or small grower or user...they already pretty much leave you alone--
Most ppl do not need more than a 25 sq ft garden, nor do they need to carry more than an oz with them...why should they have to pay for a Rec and State Card every year??
19 does nothing to hurt anything...it takes away no Rights...why not vote Yes??
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
No prob Mr Celsius-- My mission on this subject, is to try and get ppl to the Yes side-- You are obviously very cemented in your thinking, and no amount of debate will change that-- Nothing I can say here, that hasn't been said over and over again--
Much respect to you as a grower--But you are being selfish--
With Prop 19, you can do most things that you can with prop 215...Garden size being the only difference--
"Why vote Yes?"
Because it gives every single person in Cali (Over 21), the Right to do everything (exept grow limitations) that 215 does...without having to go to a Dr, or have to pay for it...remember, just because YOU think it is mute...many simply don't have the $$
So the question for me is...Why vote No?? It is no skin off your ass--
 

Tony Aroma

Let's Go - Two Smokes!
Veteran
Mr Celsius, please address the issue of prop 19 failing being a major blow to the legalization movement across the country. Do you really think if it fails that similar efforts, both for medical use or full legalization, won't be severely set back. You think folks in other states, after seeing prop 19 fail in CA, won't think twice about introducing legislation.

Sounds like you have everything the way you want it now. But everyone, especially those of us outside CA, don't. Voting NO is committing the rest of us to more years of trying to change things. Think of the rest of us.
 

Fat J

Member
I was on the fence(leaning no), but all things said and done, I think I have to vote yes, very good arguments here, both sides and no its by no means anywhere near perfect. But yeah, cops been bustin a LOT more ppl for pot round here, like a big push to keep out the vote :-(

Though I really dislike this bill - for the cause I have to vote yes. Any way you legalize it will end up being dominated by commercial warehouses so I really cant argue against that as I enjoy being a capitalist society, even with its problems. I wish they hadnt so nastily protected themselves with the 25sqft issue - you can brew as many gallons of beer as you want, and grow as much tobacco as you want... its kinda bs.

Still I have to vote yes.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
Idk... $50 a year for more freedom then already posed... seems like its worth it. I bet most people spend waaay more then $50 a year on pot alone. If they spend that and grew for themselves I bet they would save money... butt that's not the point of this conversation.

My personal reasons for no:

There's no reason, aside from the logic I've already stated. Commercialization will bring down quality, introduce just as many pesticides and take the profits out of mom and pop and place them into larger companies. Its like walmart vs the corner store... get it?

So...millions of ppl not having to go pay for a Rec...that is too much to ask??
Commercialization will ruin it for the Mom and Pops?? Really??
So, the ppl that have been buying your top shelf...they are suddenly going to go by "Pot-Mart" weed?? :biglaugh:
This will not hurt us...if anything, it will make it better!!
It will be years before Mega-Grows are in place, and dialed in...and many Props/Bills/Legislation later...and a whole other set of rules--
I believe this is a solid first step--
 

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