look at this bullshit

[scegy]

hello guys, i'd really like to see a comment from an experienced hydro grower
2×400W setup
2×50L buckets + res = 140 L of solution in the system
using canna substra with great results, used to

the setup worked perfectly but since i went vertical i have nothing but problems...because i was messing with the lights (14/10 cycle). they grew well the first 2 weeks and then the growth stopped and they've been like this for almost 4 weeks now. my assumption is:
as i introduced them into the veg substrate at (ec 0,4/ph 5.5, water-temp~25°C, growroom temp: 30°C -- and dropping since the cyclon reached our country), they began immediate stretch, but since they'r indica they stretched only a little and they the wanted to flower but didn't have enough PK so they slowly became deficient and all purple and wilty nd shit....so what did i do...first i tried with Mg...didn't work, then i flipped the lights to 18/6 and gave them 50+L of fresh RO water and dumped some of the old solution.
now i wait what will happen, the root zone looks healthy and smells healthy but the whole plants are stunned as hell.

ec was 0.7-0.8 before adding fresh water, now it's around 0.4-0.5 at ph 6.0-6.1

i'd really appriciate an advice cos i'm out of ideas, here's a few pics so you can see what i'm talking about
thank you

mg def?

purple stems? P?

wilting? low humidity, stunned roots?


got a new one, gonna introduce them some rhizotonic, what do you think about this?

 

[gaiusmarius]

i don't know man, but an ec of 0.45 is very very low. with 2 x 400 watts you should give them about 1.0 to start with and slowly go up as they devellop. the other thing is you said you are using the canna substra. that's for rockwool etc, what you want is the canna aqua. how are the water temps? do you have enough air in the water?

good luck

 

[scegy]

i agree that it is low, but when i raised it they didn't wanna take it(the ec got higher on itself in the next days...meaning that they can't take it)
it's not the nutrients, i've grown monster buds in the past grows with the same nutrient, even from the same canister.
starting at ec 1.0 would definetly kill my plants, i have to start with lower ec's and end up about 1.5-1.7 ec in the peak flowering, specialy small indica strains don't take much juice.
as i said, it's not the temps, not the DO levels, they'r just totally stunned plants, living somewhere in the middle of flowering and vegging because of my initial 14/10 light regime.
ever had these kind of problems(explorations) ?

 

[BlindDate]

Go back to the basics. gaiusmarius is right, your EC should be at least 1.0 and Canna Aqua is what you want. Forget about any additives right now untill you correct your problem. I think that is is environment, not nutrient.

25 is too hot. Buy a chiller and ditch those fans blowing on the roots. Is that a tub aero setup? If it is then measure temps INSIDE the roots not the reservoir. You said that the problem began during 14/10 but I can see that those plants were never healthy during veg.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Almost sounds like they're stalled trying to reveg to me...I know they didn't go into full fledged flowering, but that 14/10 could have been enough get them started flowering and now they're trying to get back into veg mode again. I'm also kinda thinking that maybe there's an inbalance of the nutes in your mix...what's the water source, EC, and amount of which nutes that you're using?

Canna Substra looks like it's a little low in the Phosporus dept to me...dunno about the micro's that it has either. Have you tried any kinds of amino/humic acid plant stimulants?

 

[brightside]

initial 14/10 light regime ? why ? - could this be the start of the problem ?

I'm not hydro so can't comment about the rest - but an initial 14/10 light cycle is not a good idea - i've used 16/8 for seedlings successfully but clones generaly need 18/6 for veg or they go into stress - good luck

hi gaiusmarius good to see you

 

[Purgatory]

It looks like you've been shifting the ph around to much; the leaves are curling to the side.
RO water will have lots of PH fluctuations because it has nothing in it to buffer the ph.


Your nutrients look right judging by the top growth, the bottom leaves are just turning yellow because there's not enough photosynthesis happening in this area; notice the spindly lower growth and no lateral branching.
The spindly growth could be do to a lack of light. Plants in the most screwed up environments will still branch out laterally under high intensity lights.

Plants don't take well to frequent light schedule changes either. That can offset flowing by months.

 

[Blunt Trauma]

Jail.....man, they hate being in jail! It looks like an institution in there. Hang up some boobies for them to look at.

 

[scegy]

hm...is it gonna be a fight?
it is a dwc tub that, I REPEAT, gave me awsome buds with the substra nutes even if it's recirculating setup without clay, rockwool or something i ditched that long time ago
i disagree on your remark
"You said that the problem began during 14/10 but I can see that those plants were never healthy during veg."

i have no pics from the start but trust my word, the plants were doing as they should for the first two weeks of 14/10, they grew to the height u see now, then they began to show flowers and they stopped growing and became more and more defficient
those vents blowing in the buckets lowered the temps for 2-3 degrees during night cycle and even more in the light cycle where i had high temp problems this time because of the weather(almost two months no rain just plain burning sun) which raised the temps so much.
the proper way would be to ditch everything and start over...but i've lost a month with these bitches so i'm gonna give them one more week or so
that''s why i'm asking what to do, because i've grown some nice ladies(the same and sometimes bigger buds than in ur ladie's rack ) in the same setup, just wasn't messing the lights
if i get the ec higher and nothing gets better i'll toss a lot of not very cheap nutes, and i've decieded this grow to use canna aqua in the flowering, although substra never ditched me but it has some minor ph fluctations which was supposed to be fixed in the aqua series..we'll c about that
so you say no additives just plain ferts? cos i usually see leaves curled upwords when they need more nutes not like claws as in my case and there should be a lot more yellowing if they were lack in N....or are you talking about adding flower nutes? cos they'r definetly in lack of P, but i'm afraid of using it cos they'r stunned already without raising the ec.
no offence guys i need some more ideas

 

[scegy]

hehehe blunt, will do

brightside: you can bitchslap me if you want, i'd do it myself but i just soo like to play every new grow, nothing ever stays the same the plan was:
put the babies in the 14/10 so they'll think that they can grow and veg but also flower a little so that when i flip them to 12/12 they'll stretch just a little and bloom on full then---plan failed as you can see

mtf: exactly, the problem is that i have no idea what would they need now cos they show me nothing because being somewhere in the middle. yes i'm using cannazyme + some Mg since i noticed that these indica strains love Mg
my water source is about 0.5 ec, and i get it to 0.1 with the RO unit.
hm i'll say it this way, i had the biggest, tha dunkiest and the stickiest buds when i used just a little less then enough nutes(lower ec's). i fucked up the solution after i fucked up the lights....solution ?

purgatory:i've done the lesson about fluctating ph long time ago, and it usually comes with little spots on the fan leaves...but this is not the case here, the ph fluctated from 5.5 to 6.1 in one month
no signs of low light were present in the start of the grow so i exclude that too.

 

[gaiusmarius]

well on the one hand you are asking what to do and when you are told you say it's wrong.

if i was you i would dump the whole fucking tank and start again with fresh nutes at ec 0.9 or 1.0 add nothing else except cannazym. then watch them a day or two and you will see things get better. as long as your water has enough air and doesn't get too hot.

you will be ok for the veg phase with the substra nutes. as long as you change to aqua flores when you go 12/12.

you did say you had 2 x 400 in there right. if you are talking flouros then the ec might well have to be very low, but hps lights will use a lot of nutes. even a low feeding strain needs 1.0 once in the system and even up to 1.5 depending on how long you veg for and what the strain wants.

anyway mate, good luck.

 

[Guest]

if u look at cannas website they quote much higher ec's than those said here ,,i my self start clones (canna nutes) with e.c 1.0 then as soon as they root i go to 1.4 then 1.6 over the course of 2-3 days then up it even further to 1.8-2.0 for the final stages of veg,,then a plain water flush then onto flores at ec 2.0,,

 

[scegy]

gaius, told you not to be offended, i'm just arguing with you in a sence of arguments nothing more. you have to know the backround of my grow it's not all in numbers. maybe you put your clones in ec 1.0 because you veg them before you put them into the flowering chamber, cos i know that mine didn't want the high ec STARTING point, i agree that they need more later even if i had fluoros which i don't

are you also reffering that i should add just PK,i'm afraid to raise the ec much cos i loose a lot of water and nutrients if i don't do the topping righ.....ditching em and having time for that would be great, but can't do this time, i wanna do it vertical cos my 1m2 with 800w on it doesn't do the job of g/W.
thank you for your effort man, i apriciate it really

hazy i agree about the ec in NORMAL conditions, but as these are stunned want-to-be revegged plants.
i usualy start with a 0.5 and top through the first two weeks untill i reach ec 1.0 then i go gradually towards 1.7, and above all i always mesure the ec daily so that i can see how it changes and i add straight RO water or mixed with ferts, depending on the measurements of ec and ph.
i did the exact same thing this time, but 14/10 did it's thing.
you still insist that my problem is in the low ec?

btw gaius, very nice plants, remind me on my own one grow ago, have a few budshots in my gal. too..how much u pull per m2?

 

[gaiusmarius]

well all i'm saying is that i'm known for using a very low ec due to my strains preference. so when i say start with 1.0 others would tell you to start with 1.2 or 1.4 even. your plants are no longer clones which will need no more then 0.8 to 1.0 just you watch what happens, trust the canna veg nutes, they are complete and need no mg, specially not so early on. you will end up burning them by adding mg salts.

i am certain your plants would perk right up if they had a clean tank of veg nutes at ec 1.0 you would be surprised how fast they recover. but they can hardly recover if you are giving them nothing but the equivalent of tap water with a slightly high ec.

but in the end it's up to you, maybe with your RO water the nutes might be enough to get them growing normal again, but why make it hard on them, those crinkly green top leaves are a typical sign of hungry plants. and the dead stuff at the bottom is a typical sign of the plants taking what it needs to survive from the lower fan leaves.

normally i yield about 1 gpw +/- with my coco slabs on tables with drippers and recirculating the nutrient solution. i didn't mean to sound offended, i just wanted to get the point across lol.

peace out

 

[foaf]

when in doubt with hydro, dont try to figure it out....

dump res, rinse roots with tap water, mix nutes based on the label. and of course all the other things like lots of light, lots of aeration, cool root zones, dont overwater ect...

 

[scegy]

well guys i'll give it a try with the high ec, i'm mixing some nutes so i can add fresh enriched solution tomorrow. so i owe you a bud or two if this works, and you owe me 6 clones if it doesn't
will give you feedback in a few days, thank you for your efforts

 

[scegy]

hehe dudes
ec @ 0.8, ph 5.7 and already looking better, can't wait for tomorrow to give you a pictorial update, thank you again i sure would fuck them up this time

 

[bp420]

your plants are fucked because the 14/10 is to long of dark period. if you plants started to show flowers...its flowering. its not gunna hover between half flower half veg.
the reason it stopped growing is for just that reason, its flowering. whatever growth it had was probably just its initial flowering stretch.
the reason its fucked up now is probbably because you put the light back to 18/6 - now its reveging. you won't see any growth or very little change for a few weeks - expect 2 or 3 weeks before you see any major changes.

set your EC to whatever you want, everyone seems to be saying 1.0, you seem to think thats to high, so go for 0.70 - whatever. put your lights on 18/6 and leave it there.

reset everything back to normal, and wait and see.

(just a note, i opened this thread like...18hours ago..so there could be more replies between when i opened it and when i posted...so yeah)

 

[ethereal]

is that a cloner ur growin in?
no disrespect just curious?
maybe im just fucking stoned

 

[scegy]

etheral: that's recirculative dwc, only water pumps, but you'r right my cloner works on the same principle just that it's smaller. those buckets are each 50L, cloner is 5L, that's the difference
bp: you haven't read good my post, i have my plants on 18/6 for 3 weeks now, the bigger ones are new lately added clones, which showed the same deficiencies as the old ones although they'r on 18/6 now...so i guess my mixture was in lack of everything.

i've added rhizotonic yesterday 150ml / 140 L , i'd raised my ph sky high to 7.6..smelled baaaaadd, like something died in there ec @ 0.78(they've eaten alot, remember ec was yesterday 0.8 + i added rhizotonic) so i think we'll c some changes in the next few days, nothing worthwhile photographing for now. and i've also mixed some new ferts today for topping, targert ec is 1.0-1.2, so i added 0.2 ml A+B per 140L of solution(having in mind that the ec is now 0.78), gonna pour it in this afternoon.
good day guys

higer ec and rhizo in action