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Long-Term Pot Use Tied to Less Dopamine, Which May Help Explain Less Motivation

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
Don't shoot the messenger, i am not agreeing or disagreeing with the article, just sharing what I saw on the news

funny that the syndrome they say may be linked to its use is controversial in and of it self

for people such as myself with dopamine and serotonin dysfunction the potential dopamine effect has little bearing on me personally


http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/0...h-may-help-explain-less-motivation/56728.html

New research discovers long-term cannabis users tend to produce less dopamine, a chemical in the brain linked to motivation. UK investigators found that dopamine levels in a part of the brain called the striatum were lower in people who smoke more cannabis and those who began using the drug at a younger age.
They suggest this finding could explain why some cannabis users appear to lack motivation to work or pursue their normal interests.
The study, by scientists at Imperial College London, UCL and King’s College London, was funded by the Medical Research Council and published in the journal Biological Psychiatry.
Scientists at Imperial College London, UCL and King’s College London used PET brain imaging to look at dopamine production in the striatum of 19 regular cannabis users and 19 non-users of matching age and sex.
The cannabis users in the study had all experienced psychotic-like symptoms while smoking the drug, such as experiencing strange sensations or having bizarre thoughts, like feeling as though they are being threatened by an unknown force.
The researchers expected that dopamine production might be higher in this group, since increased dopamine production has been linked with psychosis. Instead, they found the opposite effect.
The cannabis users in the study had their first experience with the drug between the ages of 12 and 18. There was a trend for lower dopamine levels in those who started earlier, and also in those who smoke more cannabis.
Experts believe the findings suggest that cannabis use may be the cause of the difference in dopamine levels.
The lowest dopamine levels were seen in users who meet diagnostic criteria for cannabis abuse or dependence, raising the possibility that this measure could provide a marker of addiction severity.
Some previous research has shown that cannabis users have a higher risk of mental illnesses that involve repeated episodes of psychosis, such as schizophrenia.
“It has been assumed that cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia by inducing the same effects on the dopamine system that we see in schizophrenia, but this hasn’t been studied in active cannabis users until now,” said Dr. Michael Bloomfield, who led the study.
“The results weren’t what we expected, but they tie in with previous research on addiction, which has found that substance abusers – people who are dependent on cocaine or amphetamine, for example — have altered dopamine systems.
“Although we only looked at cannabis users who have had psychotic-like experiences while using the drug, we think the findings would apply to cannabis users in general, since we didn’t see a stronger effect in the subjects who have more psychotic-like symptoms. This needs to be tested though.
“It could also explain the ‘amotivational syndrome’ which has been described in cannabis users, but whether such a syndrome exists is controversial.”
Other studies have looked at dopamine release in former cannabis users and not seen differences with people who haven’t taken cannabis, suggesting that the effects seen in this study are likely to be reversible.
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
hold on now... everyone of the smokers have had psychotic like symptoms ? like being threatened by a unknown source? Wtf does that even mean? O they picked people that are already psychotic and smoke weed.... good scientific study... Wheres the control group that does smoke weed without psychotic tendencies? Non huh... kool.... O and it goes into the thing were cannabis causes schizophrenia. These studies are always so wack.....


and where is the control with ex cannabis users to see if there dopamine came back?

where is the 5 year study with the same subjects...? this study sucks... -=P

o and dont forget this line


"Other studies have looked at dopamine release in former cannabis users and not seen differences with people who haven’t taken cannabis, suggesting that the effects seen in this study are likely to be reversible. "


So basically when u are high you are happier and u use more dopamine in regular activities causing lower levels when tested but when stop using they go back to normal... wonder how much this study cost... 5$?
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Very interesting. The involvement of Kings College is always a warning sign for me though. They specialize in anti cannabis studies. I imagine the funding is always there for them. Still, it seems that this study is rather objective. The study group is not representative of the general population though. People have a wide range of reactions to cannabis. The stuff is bad news for some people. I definitely can slip into behavior that can only be called dependency where the amount of time spent smoking leaves room for little else and I fail to get important things done. It's for real. But then my seratonin system is atypical and I have an addictive personality, OCD. Right now I'm struggling with my caffeine habit after having been clean of the stuff for months. Different people react differently to cannabis.

I expect this thread to soon be filled with people claiming bullshit and telling stories of how motivated they are and how much they accomplish with a smoking habit. If true, then good for you. Different people react differently. To think that something with effects as profound as marijuana has, won't result in side effects, is naive. In India which has a long cultural tradition of cannabis consumption, the use by minors is strongly discouraged. I think that the psychosis connection is real ... maybe one in 3,000-5,000 people are susceptible to having an underlying potential triggered by cannabis use ... a number that is statistically insignificant ... unless you're one of those individuals ... or its your brother. There's no free lunch. It can trigger anxiety disorders in some people too. I might have been one of those individuals.

Because of the persecution of users under prohibition there really haven't been the studies needed. Because of the politics behind prohibition, for good reason we tend to not believe the studies done by institutions such as Kings College. With relaxation of prohibition, people might be willing to discuss their use with doctors. But under current laws and prejudices telling your doctor you smoke it can put you on the record and subject you to serious discrimination. I really wouldn't want to discuss my use with an M.D. who hadn't ever used the stuff. Hopefully things will change.

Relaxation of prohibition will allow many more studies to take place. Brain scans are becoming more and more commonplace and have revolutionized psychology. We're going to be seeing more and more of these kind of studies as time goes on. The lies and prejudices that accompany and enable prohibition have been so obvious that it's resulted in a cannabis culture in which people believe that pot can never have any negatives. The powers that be have brought it upon themselves. The drug war has countless more victims than the drugs themselves have ever produced. Cannabis is relatively benign but persecution of users destroys families and lives to feed the police state. But there's no free lunch. To think so is denial.
 
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supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
well I been smoking around 30 years. the more stoned I get the more I want an adventure and some fun . so there goes that theory. nothing better than , hiking ,fishing ect when blazed. some people are just lazy I guess
 

prune

Active member
Veteran
Very interesting. The involvement of Kings College is always a warning sign for me though. They specialize in anti cannabis studies.

Ya, this "study" was designed from the beginning to produce DEA quality anti-marijuana propaganda. The only kind of science that the "right" can appreciate...
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
i fall both sides of that argument.

days of blissful activities and days of paralyzing lethargy.

i too condemn any study by tptb.

shyster tactics using subjects with psychotic events prior to study.

shitheels.
 

mrcreosote

Active member
Veteran
So...
Crazy people who smoke dope get lazier than people who don't smoke.

This is good. Who needs hyperactive crazy people?

"Dude...wanna get crazy as fuck today? Ya kno...like drive THROUGH the mall or sumpthin'?"
"Nah...let's just stay here and do another bowl."
"OK, cool."
 
L

longearedfriend

I was already aware that marijuana had an effect on dopamine.

That's why some people who get into smoking ganja, can have vulnerabilities to cocaine/meth who also work on the dopamine receptors. Also the stimulants work on the heart while the ganja works on other organs. So when some of your organs are overtaxed, you change and you start to tax the heart, which is much harder to repair if not impossible.
 

blastfrompast

Active member
Veteran
I might get flamed for this, but I know 2 people with un-treated mental health issues who go shit house rat crazy if they smoke. One in particular can keep it together when straight...but give him a hoot and he looses all "control" and he has a full blown episode.
 

soil margin

Active member
Veteran
Dr.Oz claims that too high of dopamine levels in the brain actually encourages addiction and risky behavior. Maybe this explains why many pot smokers don't get addicted to hard drugs and stupid behaviors as often as other groups.

Too little dopamine is bad but too much is even worse. This study seems pretty irrelevant to the mast majority of cannabis users imho.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
I don't like how they picked people who have psychotic episodes when smoking then say the dopamine effect applies to all people who smoke cannabis. It applies to people who have psychotic episodes while smoking cannabis.
I know people who just can't smoke cannabis. They freak out. Lots of people have allergic reactions to drugs. It doesn't mean no one should use them. People who have bad reactions to a drug should not use that drug.
A lot of people's addiction problems are related to this especially with stimulants. Some people enjoy feeling psychotic.
 
I was at a bar that got shot up by a madman last year, waiting to buy a drink. Over heard some one say "mentally Ill people are depressing"

Ironic, maybe.
 

soil margin

Active member
Veteran
Does anyone besides myself notice this trend of reporting in the media where if a crazy person does something crazy while drunk off his ass the story is "Madman Terrorizes X!" while if a crazy person does something crazy after smoking a joint the story is "Stoned Madman Smokes Super Psychedelic Weed and Terrorizes X!"

It's like somehow we are supposed to take it for granted that people get drunk and do stupid stuff, but if anyone behaves badly while stoned, it's specifically the fault of the supercharged killer cannabis he just consumed? I find it ridiculous personally. I'm probably 10x more likely to commit a crime after drinking 3 cups of coffee than I am after taking a couple bong rips.
 

m314

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
"Weed doesn't take away your motivation, weed takes away your motivation to do something that fucking sucks." - Joe Rogan

That's been my experience. It sounds like they're grasping at straws here trying to find something negative to say about weed. If it had increased dopamine levels (like having sex or playing a video game), they would have concluded it's as addictive as meth or cocaine.

News flash: Neurotransmitter levels can change when you get high. It's not bad for 99.9% of us.
 

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