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Living organic soil from start through recycling
- Thread starter Gascanastan
- Start date
- Status
Yah but mine is black...you guys are green..horns
I knew it!!!!
Unknown Blueberry x BMR grown by a guy here a couple years ago whom I helped out with a soil recipe.
CC's Nigerian landrace x BMR....dried...1 plant.
Notice the horsetail in the background...it was about 3 lbs which I dried,pulverized,and mixed into the soil on the re-amend.
B
BlueJayWay
(Less than a day but several pages later, and many posts of which made me "LOL"and a few that made me cringe thinking boy I'm glad I'm not on the receiving end of that comment HAHA)
That is odd man, and would make me not use the SOLO cups again! For me, they're never in the solo cup (18oz) for more than 7-10 days, they're rooted plenty by that time and they go into 1gal "bags" to finish veggin' out. Haven't had negative issues I would attribute to the cups etc.
It may be worthwhile to note, or probably not, but in lieu of poking or drilling drainage holes I put an inch of perlite/lava/rice hulls on the bottom and they get a specific amount of water to avoid water-logging. Also @ the finishing stage in 5gal buckets I do the same thing. The way I've had things set up over the years it made sense not to have to deal with runoff.
After testing some #7 smartpots next to the 5gal buckets I was pleased, and I picked up a #45 today to start a no-till alongside the 4 rubbermaid 18gal no-tills on their 2nd and 3rd runs, again no drainage on those. Anyways, I think I'm in the process of switching out to mostly no-till and larger smartpots..... neither here nor there, but hey it's on mind
B
BlueJayWay
DUDE, stop posting pictures of THE ONE - you're makin' me jealous and am now wondering who I have to sell my body to to add this one to the garden - I feel ashamed now
blessing in disguise
blessing in disguise
the trick is to "not" tug it so much
but dont sweat it bud
having metal hands, naturally
gives me the advantage
blessing in disguise
tell me about it
the trick is to "not" tug it so much
but dont sweat it bud
having metal hands, naturally
gives me the advantage
Wow. Kinda crazy around here today. Maybe some lingering effects of the full moon a couple days ago.
Thanks, Toes. Yep, blue and yellow SOLO cups. They're a few years old and they've been used a few times if that matters.
And I'm almost afraid to admit that I'm using some old GO bottled 'organic' nutes that i've had in my cupboard for a few years (please don't hate me) supplemented with regular doses of ACT and kelp/alfalfa tea. I took a couple clones that will get the true organic treatment, as will everything else I grow from now on. I'm on board 100%.
Thanks, Toes. Yep, blue and yellow SOLO cups. They're a few years old and they've been used a few times if that matters.
And I'm almost afraid to admit that I'm using some old GO bottled 'organic' nutes that i've had in my cupboard for a few years (please don't hate me) supplemented with regular doses of ACT and kelp/alfalfa tea. I took a couple clones that will get the true organic treatment, as will everything else I grow from now on. I'm on board 100%.
(Less than a day but several pages later, and many posts of which made me "LOL"and a few that made me cringe thinking boy I'm glad I'm not on the receiving end of that comment HAHA)
That is odd man, and would make me not use the SOLO cups again! For me, they're never in the solo cup (18oz) for more than 7-10 days, they're rooted plenty by that time and they go into 1gal "bags" to finish veggin' out. Haven't had negative issues I would attribute to the cups etc.
It may be worthwhile to note, or probably not, but in lieu of poking or drilling drainage holes I put an inch of perlite/lava/rice hulls on the bottom and they get a specific amount of water to avoid water-logging. Also @ the finishing stage in 5gal buckets I do the same thing. The way I've had things set up over the years it made sense not to have to deal with runoff.
After testing some #7 smartpots next to the 5gal buckets I was pleased, and I picked up a #45 today to start a no-till alongside the 4 rubbermaid 18gal no-tills on their 2nd and 3rd runs, again no drainage on those. Anyways, I think I'm in the process of switching out to mostly no-till and larger smartpots..... neither here nor there, but hey it's on mind
Okay, this is a little big of a hijack and I'm not embarrassed to ask what is the real deal with the smart pots? I've read about the natural root 'pruning' thing but not sure I fully grok what happens.
So right now I've got a few hundred paulowinia trees bursting out of one gallon pots. I'm ready to transplant them into 5 gallon standard pots and within a few weeks they will bursting out of them. If I plant them into 5 gallon smart pots will it be different? Will they not be bursting or will it just be hidden?
IncredibowlBoss
Member
I could never figure out the root pruning claims - I know certain copper compounds have proven to prune roots and Smart Pots do seem to have some sort of copper woven in. That's my totally untutored hypothesis FWIW.
EDIT: i did run smart pots for 1 cycle and actually kept my root balls because they were surprisingly developed (also ran H&G Roots Excel that cycle, my variables were deeply confounded) - stopped using em because they suck to clean - no matter what the grow store guy says, you can't just throw em in the washing machine and pull em out good as new.
Y
YosemiteSam
The time frame for busting out will be similar...but the root structure will be very different. Instead of that circling thing it just kinda turns the whole pot into a web of roots...if you leave it too long in a pot it actually effects how fast the pot will drain.
I like them but if you asked me hard enough I could not say if there is a real measurable difference or not.
I like them but if you asked me hard enough I could not say if there is a real measurable difference or not.
IncredibowlBoss
Member
^^^ this
B
BlueJayWay
I've been running one smart pot next to my 5gal paint buckets. From what I see on top, everything is the same, no discernible difference between the rest. BUT I like how they drain, or rather the lack of drainage when watered appropriately, and I like that I didn't have that small extra step of adding a drainage amendment to the bottom of my no holes buckets, and I like the idea that the roots are receiving more air from all sides of the container. There's a few other likes as well...
Also, I don't clean any pots/buckets/smart pots to begin with so that issue never crosses my mind. I've also never had anything so nasty as far as pests are concerned to feel a need to clean, I feel lucky at this location, not sure if elevation has anything to do with it, I know the fleas can't live up here....
(the room and the environment remains suitably clean, don't go thinkin' I'm some sort of slob around here now )
Also, I don't clean any pots/buckets/smart pots to begin with so that issue never crosses my mind. I've also never had anything so nasty as far as pests are concerned to feel a need to clean, I feel lucky at this location, not sure if elevation has anything to do with it, I know the fleas can't live up here....
(the room and the environment remains suitably clean, don't go thinkin' I'm some sort of slob around here now
)
I never mentioned CALMAG as a product, I was saying a ratio of calcium to mag 3 to 1 is ideal.
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Y
YosemiteSam
3:1 using chem nutes in a very light soil is good.
But you are in a thread that is based on a whole different paradigm...living soil. That is why your post was thought to be a joke at first.
Ratios become less and less important the more sites can hang onto cations and the more living things you have to hold onto anions.
Wrong thread.
Microbeman
I think that I can answer your question (at least the first one) from experience unrelated to growing cannabis.
Plants which require anything over 9 months of normal growth to hit market size for that cultivar pose some special considerations. The circling of the roots at the bottom of a standard nursery container may not be much of a problem for a 4 or 5 month cycle but it is a huge problem for nurserymen as it becomes a breeding ground for all kinds of 'things'
For several years plastic pots have been coated with Copper Hydroxide and this goes back to the 1920's. When the root ends hit this coating the do stop the push out and now the new root development will be lateral. This is important for another reason - when a nursery takes on a contract from one of the brokers or the behemoth nurseries like Monrovia Nursery (largest in the world) or Teufel Nursery in Oregon, a typical contract will be something like this:
Japanese Lace Maple (name of specific variety)
1,000 saplings to be delivered 24 months from date of contract
Root checks will be allowed at grower's expense every 90 Days
So this means that if you need to deliver 1,000 saplings you need to plant at least 150 for the root checks and because things 'don't always work out' with several plants.
The root checks involve removing the plant from the container, cutting the plant at the soil line and then the soil is removed to the extent possible so that the quality control inspectors from the contractor can verify that this crop is moving along as it should.
In the mid-80's a company called Hi Caliper introduced a line of containers made from plastic but it was a fabric. It was intended for the tree growers. Their growth in this area was explosive because conifers, hardwoods, etc. don't suffer much from the Copper Hydroxide as do the boutique plants. And that's where the money is as in many things - speciality plants pay more than Arbor Vitae plants.
So these 'fabric' pots accomplished the same thing as the chemical paint used but what became apparent is that the aeration in the root zone came into play. When you have black plastic containers sitting in a field for their 2 - 4 year growing cycle, the temperature on the sides of the posts can exceed the ambient numbers by as much as 15F
Soon there were other 'air-pruning' or 'auto-pruning' tree containers coming to market because Hi Caliper/Treebag was making serious money. The product worked and it was far less expensive to use these pots vs. buying standard plastic nursery pots, the labor to paint the chemical on the inside, let it dry, etc. With Hi Caliper's Treebag product line you had a container which was price competitive with what they had used for years.
The new products included Caledonia Tree Co. out of Scotland and their product called Air Pot (after 3 or 4 incarnations) and these are priced in la-la land.
Here's a photo of an Air Pot
Later the other side of the nursery business (annuals, flowering plant growers, etc.) took a look at these pots and again, it was and is the speciality growers that moved over to the product designed for their segment - SmartPots, i.e. Hi Caliper is where tree growers go and SmartPots for smaller plants which usually means less time for the growing cycle.
So the primary reasons for using SmartPots by nurseries is the increase in root mass and the cooling/aeration factor which is critical in the summer months.
CC
My goodness. Sorry you took it that way, if it is indeed me you are addressing.
Not you microbe man, i have always respected your posts. Your a great member of this ic world. I can only hope to one day have a grasp on teas and soil life as you do.
Yosemite Sam- Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know you guys dont go bottle shopping for your soil. Perhaps I read it too fast or wrong but I posted that 3 to 1 ratio (which I believe can be applied to organics) simply b/c I thought someone had mention mag deficiency. I then became aware that (the speak of mag deficiency) was actually a joke but Gas can Stan came up and decided he'd rip me a new one, simply for sharing that info.
I am a huge supporter of recycled soil and in fact have never replaced the soil outside in holes, just ammend, topdress, and apply aact's fwiw.
I do dig this thread and some of the regular people in it are stand up icmagers who share troves of info we are all lucky to get.
Yosemite Sam- Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know you guys dont go bottle shopping for your soil. Perhaps I read it too fast or wrong but I posted that 3 to 1 ratio (which I believe can be applied to organics) simply b/c I thought someone had mention mag deficiency. I then became aware that (the speak of mag deficiency) was actually a joke but Gas can Stan came up and decided he'd rip me a new one, simply for sharing that info.
I am a huge supporter of recycled soil and in fact have never replaced the soil outside in holes, just ammend, topdress, and apply aact's fwiw.
I do dig this thread and some of the regular people in it are stand up icmagers who share troves of info we are all lucky to get.
Thanks Coot, This explains it very well from my standpoint. Now I've got to decide whether to shell out the extra $$. I'm looking at trying to stunt paulowinias (haha) by pot size.
MM
Contact Hi Caliper direct as they afford wholesale pricing for situations like you're considering. They will be at the wholesale nursery show in Portland this week and I'll stop and see what's up and send the information to your office.
Good people - our friend in Redmond (the elder) knows the owner and he introduced me to the Hi Caliper people a couple of years ago. Solid company and well respected.
CC
Contact Hi Caliper direct as they afford wholesale pricing for situations like you're considering. They will be at the wholesale nursery show in Portland this week and I'll stop and see what's up and send the information to your office.
Good people - our friend in Redmond (the elder) knows the owner and he introduced me to the Hi Caliper people a couple of years ago. Solid company and well respected.
CC
S
schwagg
good one MM, stuntin' instant shade tree's! i'd buy one for sure, i don't think i've ever seen one for sell. just took a trip over to woodland park and they have some beautiful mature paulownia's!
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