Living organic soil from start through recycling

[vonforne]

Von - i like to use the Fulvic Acid - Fulpower - on a regular basis, waterings and foliars and cuttings/seedlings. Then once a week or 10 days i will use the TM-7 instead of Fulpower, which is Ful-Humix with the 7 main trace minerals added. Youre then getting the benefits of Ful-Humix Humic Acid plus some extra trace minerals.

I hear ya BJW. I am still on the fence with the price though. I do take into consideration that we as Living soil growers are using a plethora of things with similar if not the same 7 trace minerals in it. I like to trim on the costs as much as I can. And the savings I get with making my own out weighs the 7 trace minerals.

I can make 150 gallons that is 600 quarts x 30.00 plus shipping. Around 40 then. That is 2400.00! I get the Humix for 12.00 plus shipping. I think I will stick the 2386.00 dollars in my pocket. To me it is 7 trace minerals are not worth 2386.00.

but that is just me. I use chicken scratch for my oyster shell and smash it up myself also.

V

 

[BlueJayWay]

I can make 150 gallons that is 600 quarts x 30.00 plus shipping. Around 40 then. That is 2400.00! I get the Humix for 12.00 plus shipping. I think I will stick the 2386.00 dollars in my pocket. To me it is 7 trace minerals are not worth 2386.00.

Maybe im confused, but the TM7 is just $3 more ($15) and it is the same product as Humix, with a little trace minerals adde, both are powders.

The fulpower liquid is $30 quart online, locally i get a gallon for $35 which is why its easy for me to use a bit more freely.

Wow i wouldnt spend that much on minerals either! And like ya said we're already getting those same 7 from multiple sources, i like it as an insurance policy though for $3 more.

 

[vonforne]

Maybe im confused, but the TM7 is just $3 more ($15) and it is the same product as Humix, with a little trace minerals adde, both are powders.

The fulpower liquid is $30 quart online, locally i get a gallon for $35 which is why its easy for me to use a bit more freely.

Wow i wouldnt spend that much on minerals either! And like ya said we're already getting those same 7 from multiple sources, i like it as an insurance policy though for $3 more.

I thought you were just talking of the liquid. If it a powder then I will look further into it. Thanks man. lol

When I looked at the liquid online and did a price comparison with the powder I assumed most were using the liquid, I was like hell with that cost.

I am just used to cutting costs for jobs and things in my business. lol

 

[W89]

I ordered ful-humix should be here this week

 

[Neo 420]

Von - i like to use the Fulvic Acid - Fulpower - on a regular basis, waterings and foliars and cuttings/seedlings.

I use the ful every week or so. I thought I read somewhere too much ful (specifically Fulpower) was a bad thing. My mind maybe tripping?

 

[BlueJayWay]

Too much in one watering yea, keep it within their rec. amounts.

 

[vonforne]

I use it once during Veg and once during Flower. And when I sprout seeds I dilute it 1 to 20 or greater.

 

[vonforne]

I don't know this for an absolute fact but calcining clay or de (burning it in a kiln to a certain temp/time) more than likely makes it inert...not available.

I like to use a little Red Lake Earth...de (amorphous) and montmerillite (no way I spelled that right) with some Ca. Good chit mang.

I tend to agree with this. So using the DE or Calcining clay would be no different than using perlite as an aeration medium in our mixes.

Any other thoughts on this?

 

[invocation]

I decided to abandon my Sub Supersoil hybrid recipe for the past year and move on to a real living soil using non commercial bag soil (Roots). So far this is what I got "Baking" in my trashcan. I have crab meal and oyster shell coming that I will mix in later in the week.

Per cubic ft:

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat
1/3 Aeration material verm perlite DE (had these materials already)
1/3 EWC/Compost (Bioflora Kelp and fish)

4 cups Glacial rock dust
1/2 Cup Neem Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1/2 Cup Alfalfa
1/2 Cup powdered dolomite lime
1/2 Cup agricultural gypsum

Hoping to see my old results

 

[Weird]

I tend to agree with this. So using the DE or Calcining clay would be no different than using perlite as an aeration medium in our mixes.

Any other thoughts on this?

i use powdered food grade de and my plants show the anecdotal signs (more rigid stems, whiter ash) just like when I use silica

I am happy with it in this regard

and I was a proponent of it when I read it was not harmful to earthworms (but effects other insect populations) then I saw conflicting information, such as microbeman say it does (which I am not contesting)

I seed parts of my property (lots of dead fill no topsoil veggie gardens) with the recycled soil (i had soil from years of growing chemically that i eventually recycled, reclaimed organically and transitioned outdoors) so I would rather not negatively effect biological diversity by putting in something that eliminates part of it

so I am transitioning to neem meal in hopes it will serve the same purpose but degrade faster but I will need to replace the source of silica at least because even though its anecdotal it makes a difference

curious to see some other takes

 

[dank.frank]

food grade DE is completely different than calcined...and I don't think they should even be grouped in the same conversation.

I absolutely have seen benefits in soils amended with food grade DE.



dank.Frank

 

[W89]

That's some frosty shit invocation.. NICE!

 

[Cann]

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat
1/3 Aeration material verm perlite DE (had these materials already)
1/3 EWC/Compost (Bioflora Kelp and fish)

4 cups Glacial rock dust
1/2 Cup Neem Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1/2 Cup Alfalfa
1/2 Cup powdered dolomite lime
1/2 Cup agricultural gypsum

Is it just me or does 2 cups of fish bone meal per cuft seem a little bit excessive?

1/2 cup per cuft sounds a lot better IMO....2 cups of kelp is all good...hard to overdo it on that one.

maybe 2 cups/cuft will be fine though, anyone else use this much in their mix?

 

[Durdy]

I go 1/2 a cup per C.F. on amendments

I'm a big believer in less is more!

 

[invocation]

Is it just me or does 2 cups of fish bone meal per cuft seem a little bit excessive?

1/2 cup per cuft sounds a lot better IMO....2 cups of kelp is all good...hard to overdo it on that one.

maybe 2 cups/cuft will be fine though, anyone else use this much in their mix?

I doubt I'll have issues since I've ran "hotter" mixes in the past just like the one I'm using now. I plan to let this sit for a month or so. Add a few ACTs and I think I'll be good to go.

If you have anymore suggestions that's way cool. I'm not about to toss out my pots quite yet. It's real hard to change things that work but, with recycling, I don't think my current mix would be good for that.

 

[Cann]

Definitely a good call to start from scratch if you are tailoring a soil for recycling. Easier to troubleshoot any problems you might encounter if you know exactly what went in your soil from the get go.

Durdy said it very well, often times less is more in these situations. I tend to make a mild soil to start with and then I have the ability to topdress at any point if I feel the soil needs it. If you start out too "hot" it can be a huge pain in the ass to dilute the soil or what have you.

speaking of which, I have a few cuft of "super soil" which I no longer want to be a "hot mix". I am considering cutting the mix with peat moss and aeration to make it less powerful - how much do y'all think I will have to add to create a soil that veggie starts can handle? maybe a 1:1 ratio peat/pumice to super soil? 2:1 ratio? 5:1 ratio? I have no idea where to start...

 

[invocation]

Definitely a good call to start from scratch if you are tailoring a soil for recycling. Easier to troubleshoot any problems you might encounter if you know exactly what went in your soil from the get go.

Durdy said it very well, often times less is more in these situations. I tend to make a mild soil to start with and then I have the ability to topdress at any point if I feel the soil needs it. If you start out too "hot" it can be a huge pain in the ass to dilute the soil or what have you.

speaking of which, I have a few cuft of "super soil" which I no longer want to be a "hot mix". I am considering cutting the mix with peat moss and aeration to make it less powerful - how much do y'all think I will have to add to create a soil that veggie starts can handle? maybe a 1:1 ratio peat/pumice to super soil? 2:1 ratio? 5:1 ratio? I have no idea where to start...

Good call Cann. You know I could just add more peat, EWC, compost, and call it a day as well. I do have some extra that I was going to make a seed start mix with.

Should I cut it down folks???

 

[YosemiteSam]

I decided to abandon my Sub Supersoil hybrid recipe for the past year and move on to a real living soil using non commercial bag soil (Roots). So far this is what I got "Baking" in my trashcan. I have crab meal and oyster shell coming that I will mix in later in the week.

Per cubic ft:

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat
1/3 Aeration material verm perlite DE (had these materials already)
1/3 EWC/Compost (Bioflora Kelp and fish)

4 cups Glacial rock dust
1/2 Cup Neem Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1/2 Cup Alfalfa
1/2 Cup powdered dolomite lime
1/2 Cup agricultural gypsum

Hoping to see my old results

View Image

Nice. I look at that supersoil recipe as nothing more than an attempt at NPK. Spikes and whatever else he calls that shit is nothing more than an attempt to feed the plant what it needs when it needs it.

In a really true living soil one feeds the soil...not the plant. The soil does its evolutionary thing (you know, the one that has been tweaked for literally millions of yrs) and works in a symbiotic relationship with the plant.

It is an insult, a travesty, to say living soil and spikes, bands...wtfever and living soil in the same sentence. It is absolute prima facia whoever is talking does not understand living soil one fucking bit.

At least imo. I tend to be slightly cynical though...your opinion may vary.

 

[invocation]

I'm really excited to start from scratch and even ordered a few books to catch up thanks to everyone's contributions. If I can get the results I get from my old mix I'm sure this new method will be even better. Look forward to keeping this thread updated with the new soil results.

Books I ordered:

The New Organic Grower:
Eliot Coleman

The One-Straw Revolution: An Introduction to Natural Farming (New York Review Books Classics) The One-Straw Revolution: An Introduction to Natural Farming (New York Review Books Classics)
Masanobu Fukuoka

The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming
Gary F. Zimmer

 

[YosemiteSam]

I have been wanting to read Gary Zimmer's book. Let me know how it is