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vonforne
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Living organic soil from start through recycling
- Thread starter Gascanastan
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I'll post a link tomorrow which lists some P contents of various materials. Hopefully Avenger won't think it is about SRP
Who's here in this thread using SRP or HRP in ROLS..re-amending or otherwise..just curious.
Have fun...and don't forget to play nice~
Gas
Have fun...and don't forget to play nice~
Gas
RanchoDeluxe
Member
Not me. I was trying to look back 100 pages or so and find the recycled mixes Stan and Coot posted up after I asked a question about my old partner recycling his mix over and over again w/ 2tbs of lime per gal every cycle. I turned him on to this site about a month ago. I told him I couldn't help him anymore unless he read the first 100 pages of this thread. He wanted to thank both Stan and Coot. He's sayin his veg plants are the best plants he's ever grown.
Anyway it seemed liked SRP is on every damn page that I clicked on...I thought it was old news.
Anyway it seemed liked SRP is on every damn page that I clicked on...I thought it was old news.
Gascan
I don't use SRP or RP as a stand-alone amendment. It was (is?) part of Naomi's Mineral Mix and when I used that product the SRP was 20% of the total mix. I used that for maybe a year or so.
Here's some safer options for 'P' that you could buy and use from Concentrates: fish bone meal (4-20-0) or fish meal (10-4-0) and if you buy conventional versions on the fish meal then you'll be dealing with Ethoxyquin - a widely used fungicide & pesticide. Naturox is an organic version and costs about 8% more than the tainted crap.
And then of course there's good ol' Stutzmans (3-2-2) - great for worm bins, etc. Less than $.10 per lb. and certified organic (USDA) and it's local. I use it on the raised beds as well.
If you're building compost piles you could look into using straw from grains - oats, barley, wheat, rye, etc. Because these are used as livestock feed there is lots of information on their 'nute profile' that you'll find at livestock sites. Use one of these straws as your Carbon source and alfalfa for your Nitrogen and you will have a very solid 'nute profile' from plant materials alone. It's a base to begin with and adjust with Basalt or whatever.
Comfrey, Alfalfa, Stinging Nettles, Dandelion leaves, etc - the usual suspects are good sources as well.
CC
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RanchoDeluxe
Member
So Coot is fish bone meal/fish meal from say Whitney Farms, Dr. Earth etc. contaminated w/ that fungicide pesticide you speak of? Son of a bitch. Everytime you look around it's something new we gotta look out for. I've got a small box of Dr. Earth's fish bone meal. Looks like I'm gonna have to just buy a couple 50lb sacks soon.
RanchoDeluxe
I'll change my post - it's fish meal that is treated and not fish bone meal.
If it's marked organic then it's Naturox.
I'll change my post - it's fish meal that is treated and not fish bone meal.
If it's marked organic then it's Naturox.
RanchoDeluxe
Member
Right on. So fish bone meal is good to go regardless of whether it says organic on the box?
RanchoDeluxe
When the factory is setting up to make either fish hydrolysate or fish emulsion the first few steps are identical.
The fish carcasses are ground to a slurry and water is added and this mix is agitated for several hours and then allowed to sit. The bones float to the top and is skimmed off, washed, ground to a consistent size, dried and bagged - fish bone meal.
It's in the later processing (hydrolysate or emulsion which it cooked a high temperatures) where the differences come in. Since Phosphoric acid is used with fish hydro to stop the fermenting there isn't a need for fungicides, antioxidants, etc. - it's the fish emulsion (like Monsanto's 'Alaska Brand') that you want to avoid.
Some organic purists pass on both versions of 'liquid fish' - YMMV.
CC
When the factory is setting up to make either fish hydrolysate or fish emulsion the first few steps are identical.
The fish carcasses are ground to a slurry and water is added and this mix is agitated for several hours and then allowed to sit. The bones float to the top and is skimmed off, washed, ground to a consistent size, dried and bagged - fish bone meal.
It's in the later processing (hydrolysate or emulsion which it cooked a high temperatures) where the differences come in. Since Phosphoric acid is used with fish hydro to stop the fermenting there isn't a need for fungicides, antioxidants, etc. - it's the fish emulsion (like Monsanto's 'Alaska Brand') that you want to avoid.
Some organic purists pass on both versions of 'liquid fish' - YMMV.
CC
still working my ol 50lb bag, back from 2yrs ago...
goes in my bins & in = parts of my rock powder collection
@2tsp a gal
casting,caompost,soil is more then active,alive & diverserabbit,duck,guano along with many fruits and weeds will help out with P...
Dynamic Accumulators of Nutrients for Composting
designer compost + ACT
Sources of Phosphorus, Comparitives, etc
Sources of Phosphorus, Comparitives, etc
I apologize for earlier referring to attached PDFs as links.
I have had to find the link for this document as it is 1.01 MB rather than the maximum 1 MB allowed by the IC mag system.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/19310000/ThomasTworkoski/No. 14 Preusch et al. 2002.pdf
As you can see, it appears first in my post because of this. Please be aware that this order, where it appears above the PDFs attached below, has absolutely no bearing upon its importance in relationship to the other documents nor the subject matter.
Sources of Phosphorus, Comparitives, etc
I apologize for earlier referring to attached PDFs as links.
I have had to find the link for this document as it is 1.01 MB rather than the maximum 1 MB allowed by the IC mag system.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/19310000/ThomasTworkoski/No. 14 Preusch et al. 2002.pdf
As you can see, it appears first in my post because of this. Please be aware that this order, where it appears above the PDFs attached below, has absolutely no bearing upon its importance in relationship to the other documents nor the subject matter.
I have used straw in my compost pile, along with dried grasses from around the pond, other things include fall leaves,well composted small wood chips,lawn cuttings,stinging nettles, comfrey, dandelions, bamboo leaves, horse and cow manure, chicken manure pellets, rock dusts fruit/veg forest humus...lots of stuff i've probably forgotten about too...I turned it the other day it's looking really good, lots of worms have made it there home too which I found strange because its on brick-weave and the grass is over the other side of the garden with shingle in between.. but they came from somewhere lol.. the smell of manure has gone too but I have added some more straw and the dried grass it the bottom 1/3 was a little wet so I bulked it back up with the dry browns I wont use it now tell next year im gonna just make it really good for then... Ive added a couple ACTs too it as the begining and I might brew up a fungi dominated tea to try increase the crumble texture of the end product
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YosemiteSam
Cootz...do you have any info on the Stutzman Farm? Or a total chem analysis of the chicken shit compost?
I ask because when you see total analysis on most chicken shit it looks as bad or worse than the srp analysis. Maybe not true of Stutzman...and if it isn't that stuff is the bomb. Basically that plus some kelp/rock minerals and a little lime and you are freakin golden provided you have the fungal network to break down the calcium phosphate you are going to create.
Even in CO you cannot beat the price. Either way it will be part of my worm feed once I get that up and running.
I would love to see the full chem analysis like the stuff Avenger provided on the Stutzman stuff though.
i tired rock phosphate some time in the late 90s and wasnt impressed ~since it seemed to make zero difference
i didnt understand then just how long it was before it became available {hrp}
been tempted by KIS' calphos SRP ~only now; i have some P sources; totally sold on fish bone meal for instance
some may remember when i made efforts to make a P heavy compost? it was some un-processed regular old bat poo; mostly flowers in the compost; had some horse manure and alfalfa +quite a few other goodies
i must say i was much happier w/ the results in that direction
i have had no RP for 12+ years; and i think i might be able to get by w/o it
i didnt understand then just how long it was before it became available {hrp}
been tempted by KIS' calphos SRP ~only now; i have some P sources; totally sold on fish bone meal for instance
some may remember when i made efforts to make a P heavy compost? it was some un-processed regular old bat poo; mostly flowers in the compost; had some horse manure and alfalfa +quite a few other goodies
i must say i was much happier w/ the results in that direction
i have had no RP for 12+ years; and i think i might be able to get by w/o it
On the tub of chicken shit I bought the N-P-K was 4-2.5-2.5 but didnt say anything else on the tub but it isn't the same as what cootz said about
http://www.harrodhorticultural.com/new-horizon-pelleted-poultry-manure-pid8415.html?Aff=JHAG
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YosemiteSam
The Stutzman is 3-2-2 (minimum analysis) and it has a bunch of Ca. You got to assume they are supplementing the chickens diet with something high in Ca.
It is great to start a soil...probably got to be careful re amending with it though...my guess is you would build very high P levels after a while. Probably is truly genius for worm food though.
It is great to start a soil...probably got to be careful re amending with it though...my guess is you would build very high P levels after a while. Probably is truly genius for worm food though.
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vonforne
Crushed oyster shells like the brand I use in my bins and in my soil mix. It is sold at the farm stores here for 12.00
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vonforne
Cycled soil is a staple for my worm bins. Faster turn over to re-amending the other cycled soil. A little goes a long way and all the amendments are cycled by the worms and are plant ready when the roots hit the soil.
Once the P is initially in the soil there is no need to re-amend. I generally stick with FBM but do at times add RP for grit for the worms the same as I add GRD.
I don't know much about analysis, and all that. But when back when,,, we used to amend the soil in the orchard with Chicken Manure, once every year or so.
As the old saying goes; It's good shit.... if a bit on the hot side.
As the old saying goes; It's good shit.... if a bit on the hot side.
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