Lightweight Peat's Mucky Muck soil testing

[biggreg]

The North Carolina soil advisor manual and another organo-calcium study stocking stuffer.

The NCDA style testing right off the bat uses bulk density, humic matter % and color to classify each soi sample as organic, mineral or mineral-organic. The test is reported in volume units, not weight. This is ol' man Mehlich's solution to testing the wildly varying soils of his home state. The Mehlich 3 was designed as a universal extractant for those soils.

Some good info on the diffrences in organic vs mineral in there. The index system of reporting the results confuses me but can be converted back to mg/dm3 ( mg/L) via multipliers in a chart in this manual or I assume if one got a private lab that offers NCDA style tests to report it in mg/dm3 if asked. The bulk density report on this style test can be used to convert it to mg/kg to compare to other tests if one wished.

Who could ask for a better stocking stuffer? Maybe print it out and have it on the coffee table for the enjoyment of your holiday guests?

 

[biggreg]

Attached is a green paper on setting up a container soil for cannabis. A couple of tips in there make sense.

 

[biggreg]

And what every kid wants under the tree, some soil textbook stuff on organic soil and physical properties!

Be careful, Don't shoot your eye out with it!

 

[biggreg]

And because I'm a generous guy, here is a little something for that special person in your life: nothing says I care like a paper on nutrient requirements of Florida muck. Trust me, he/she will be so thrilled!

 

[biggreg]

More mucky muck info for you fans of this boring , dry-ass thread on soil testing organic-based soils vs mineral soils:

New York style: http://cvp.cce.cornell.edu/submission.php?id=110

Ohio muck station: http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/branches/branchinfo.asp?id=4

Canadian mucks, eh? : http://www.uoguelph.ca/muckcrop/

 

[biggreg]

You guys are a tough crowd, I tell ya.


Here is some more for files for your viewing pleasures.

 

[biggreg]

Maybe you're thinking:

But biggreg, I'm okay with paying my lab for mis-weighed, non-standard soil to solution ratio, cut-corner for enhanced labrotory profit, deviant from accepted written standards, bastardized tests. I don't care my lab under reports my soil elements and skews the ppm mg/kg and CEC math with a intentionally shoddy job of "weighing" my sample with a super tiny spoon calibrated for the wrong basic class of soil and then grossly over-assumes density and report in pounds per acre. It's okay because I work only with the ratios and I find that if i weigh in my my amendments without measuring my bulk density and just assume 1g/cm3, over applying those amendments into the weight of the soil according to an under reported test, those two mistakes counter act each other in most cases and it all seems to work out. I can achieve a desired cation balance on re-amend with this skewed measurement, so what's the problem?

I understand maybe you really like the guys at the lab who not only mis-handle your soil either ignorantly or with deliberate indifference but also save you money by cutting the silly lab manual standards in half and use an even smaller wrongly calibrated spoon and 1/2 the expensive Mehlich sauce per test. Think of all the savings they pass to you, their valued customer! Who needs lab standards anyway? Accuracy and precision? Scoff! As long as you stick with them and not think about it, their wrong test can be used as a valuable tool if your only goal with the test is looking at elemental ratios, it does measure that and if done the exact same wrong way each time can be calibrated to measure your soil just fine. I say if you are comfortable with that and get results, go for it.

I'm just not comfortable with it for myself. A crappy tool can get the job done but just like anything else, working with proper tools makes the job go easier.

 

[jidoka]

best fucking post in the history of icmag. nicely and mucho respect

 

[biggreg]

Not looking to re-invent a wheel here, just want quality, appropriate soil tests done to accepted, existing standards and reported in relevant units.

I want at least two or three labs that cater to us not just tolerate taking our money.

 

[biggreg]

Found this on the history of soil science in North Carolina. The chapter on organic soils I found interesting and provides a historical perspective on the diffrences in organic-based soils vs mineral soils.

http://sssnc.org/about/century.pdf

 

[biggreg]

How do they do it in other countries?

Found this on Finland soil testing. They report volumetrically mg/dm3 and have separate recommendations for organic soils excluding spagnum and one for spagnum peat. Hmm, interesting.

 

[biggreg]

And over in the U.K. : volumetric reporting ( mg/L) and differing ph targets for peaty soils and Scottish peatlands.

http://www.pda.org.uk/pda_leaflets/24-soil-analysis-key-to-nutrient-management-planning/

Maybe it the American get rich at all costs mentality with our labs here in the states?
I could hear it in their responses to my request to test my soil properly.

Me: Could you not weigh my soil with a mineral soil calibrated weighing scoop? It's not mineral soil.

McLab: what? We do 600 tests a day, no way we would make profit if we slowed down long enough to break out our old, dusty balance. And no, we don't have time to change our spreadsheet and report correctly. We only care about $$$$$$$.

Me: you suck and you should have your science card revoked! You don't deserve to wear that lab coat.

McLab: Whatever

( only slightly exaggerated for effect)

 

[biggreg]

When super cool dude's 420 or whoever's mix is the flavor of the day soil recipie calls for a cup or two of lime per batch, what does that mean? If one scoops their cup into the bag, it's one measurement. If you spoon it into the cup it's another. Try and scoop lime or any dry amendment by the cup and weigh it. You will see huge swings in mass.

Setting up a soil mix chemically using these tests is more like baking than cooking. If you're into baking ( I like pizza) you will know you weigh in dry ingredients if you want consistency. Cooking is more a bit of this and pat of that to taste. Baking and soil building are similar and have more of a chemistry aspect to them.

http://m.joyofbaking.com/WeightvsVolumeMeasurement.html


In these smaller batches most of us mix up, plus or minus 50 grams lime per 20 gallon batch of mix could make a huge difference in the resultant PH.

 

[biggreg]

Proposed standardized soil recipe format for soil testers:

Bulk Base ingredients measured by volume -parts ( peats, composts, areations, mineral soils, clays, biochars, etc.)
Base dry ingredients by grams per Meter3 or yard3 . ( broad spectrum trace elements and CEC booster stuff like rock powders,humate ores,azomites,etc)

Target ph and CEC ( meq/100cm3) defined

Amendment choices for each element tested for would be listed with desired ratios and/or ppm mg/dm3 target. amendments weighed in according to soil tests in grams / Meter3 or yard3.

When someone says they are running "coots"mix, we could know the ratio of ingredients per volume and what the soil test should look like. Let's dial this stuff in.

Scaleable, quantifiable and repeatable recipes.

 

[acespicoli]

I really like where your at with that soil science buddy! Merry Christmas biggreg!

 

[biggreg]

You guys are lucky or unlucky depending on how you feel about this run on thread/blog of my random thoughts on soil testing and mixes. I usually don't sit around on the internet and post anything but I've been laid up in bed recovering with nothing else to do. You guys are getting unfiltered, half stir-crazy biggreg trying to figure this stuff out in real time and hopefully asking interesting questions. So you are welcome and/or you have my apologies for running on and on

Merry Christmas all.

 

[biggreg]

A tight description of a soil is what a mix recipie should be, a definition.

Imagine a list of mixes all with a target soil test report values

Imagine the ability to mix a small batch of soil to closely match any ideal soil test you want.

Imagine how we could all collaborate on our well defined mixes

Imagine the progress we could make

We all are part of a revolution in container soil gardening knowledge. Our hobby/industry is pushing the envelope of knowledge on growing plants to maxim potential. Our knowledge spills over into growing better food as well. We all are doing important work that benefits humanity in many ways.

I salute all you who toil in the muck, you organic soil recyclers, you lightweight mineral-organic hybrid mixers, all you who love soil and live for this shit, thank you!

 

[biggreg]

Damn, I'll have to admit that I was wrong. Due to recent advances in technology, we now have a spoon that weighs whatever we scoop!



Now, if I can program it to only say "2 grams" no matter what i scooped up in it, I could sell it to soil labs across the country and get rich!$$

 

[biggreg]

Actually, I'd have to have a "1 gram" switch on it somewhere for those labs that believe that the 2g written standard is just too silly and less profitable to follow.

 

[biggreg]

The Feds have their own standard for the Mehlich 3. It is to weigh in 2.5g air dried soil to 25ml of Mehlich 3 solution!

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb1253872.pdf

Some interesting tests in this up to date manual.