Let's talk liquid cooled lights.
- Thread starter Uncle FREEDOM
- Start date
I'll be honest, if you were to do this, youd be best by making your own fixtures, assuming you have the technical know how and the money to fund the CNC mills, raw materials, etc.
Everybody is going crazy on the water / electricity thing, but really, thats not going to cause a fire outright.
if you use distilled water, or R/O water (same thing really, right? 0PPM = distilled water) the water itself is then non-conductive, and if you can find some clear water additives that also would help reduce the conductivity of water you'd be set.
id envision a really small thinkness of water surrounding the light at all times, but moving past the light in a whirlpool type motion, to create more turbulence. Remember that you will NOT want air bubbles in the moving water, so that you'll have to take that into consideration. I'd use 1000W bulbs, and make sure the glass is somewhat thin too (not too thin)
i wish i had a scanner, so i could draw a picture.
again, condensation isn't something to worry about, as its going to only happen at a few places:
1) inside the actual bulb - that gets thrown away because there is no h20 in the bulb to begin with
2) outside your fixture - will happen if ambient temp by the fixture is warmer than fixture itself, again doesnt matter as if it does happen, the most it is doing is changing the way light gets reflected through, other than that, its going to drip onto what? oh right the plants you are growing that are under the fixture (assuming horizontal placement)
3) inside the place where you screw the bulb in. if there is some air there, you could get some condensation, but I feel that this is something to worry about when it happens, as the possibility of it is MINUSCULE. (since the bulb is being screwed in, you are looking at literally absolutely NO air being in there, and any that is will probably just have a temp that is in equilibrium with the surrounding materials, thus not creating condensation)
Everybody is going crazy on the water / electricity thing, but really, thats not going to cause a fire outright.
if you use distilled water, or R/O water (same thing really, right? 0PPM = distilled water) the water itself is then non-conductive, and if you can find some clear water additives that also would help reduce the conductivity of water you'd be set.
id envision a really small thinkness of water surrounding the light at all times, but moving past the light in a whirlpool type motion, to create more turbulence. Remember that you will NOT want air bubbles in the moving water, so that you'll have to take that into consideration. I'd use 1000W bulbs, and make sure the glass is somewhat thin too (not too thin)
i wish i had a scanner, so i could draw a picture.
again, condensation isn't something to worry about, as its going to only happen at a few places:
1) inside the actual bulb - that gets thrown away because there is no h20 in the bulb to begin with
2) outside your fixture - will happen if ambient temp by the fixture is warmer than fixture itself, again doesnt matter as if it does happen, the most it is doing is changing the way light gets reflected through, other than that, its going to drip onto what? oh right the plants you are growing that are under the fixture (assuming horizontal placement)
3) inside the place where you screw the bulb in. if there is some air there, you could get some condensation, but I feel that this is something to worry about when it happens, as the possibility of it is MINUSCULE. (since the bulb is being screwed in, you are looking at literally absolutely NO air being in there, and any that is will probably just have a temp that is in equilibrium with the surrounding materials, thus not creating condensation)
boroboro
Member
Horizontal loops of pex tubing buried a few feet underground is how many geothermal heating systems are built, so there's plenty of precedent there.
I like the previous ideas of two loops for heat transfer: one to get the heat out of the bulbs / room, and a second to push the heat into the ground (or into a house/building in those Canadian winters). This could use standard air cooling of the grow rooms for the first loop, and then and air/water heat exchanger to take the heat out of the air before it's exhausted out of the building.
I like the previous ideas of two loops for heat transfer: one to get the heat out of the bulbs / room, and a second to push the heat into the ground (or into a house/building in those Canadian winters). This could use standard air cooling of the grow rooms for the first loop, and then and air/water heat exchanger to take the heat out of the air before it's exhausted out of the building.
1love1earth
Member
if you're really dead serious, there are liquids other than water that are even less conductive.
My suggestion would be to make a watercooled reflector.
It would not be all that difficult to do.
You could either:
A. copy a solid reflector design, and have them machined out/fabbed from scratch. This is not gonna be cheap. The reflector would have channels for water to flow through much like a PC water block or radiator, you'd have fittings on the reflector, and plug your tubes into the reflector's fittings. This way, you get all the benefits of a reflector, except much better cooled.
B. The other option is to simply take pre made reflector, and attatch a large waterblock with thermal epoxy. Look at what they have for PCs, and you'll find something suitable.
C. Do the LED deal!!!! Take all that cash you were going to spend on this crazy project, and buy a shitload of LEDs that produce next to no heat, and use hardly any power.
Condensation will occur anywhere that there is a temperature differencial of ambient and sub ambient.
The most likely places are:
Your tubing/piping (imagine all of your tubing/piping runs dripping water, this is what can happen, no leak, but alot of condensation), or your housing, bulb, reflector unit.
Now you CAN get insulated tubing, but I'd recommend pre-made insulated piping. Don't bother insulating it yourself, it'll take a ton of time, and it still won't be perfect, you'll have leaks where you still get condensation.
The other option would be to have a temp monitor hooked to a heater that varies the water temp based on the external ambient air temp. Not aware of such a device that can do this, I'm sure it exists, but damn, it might cost a penny.
My suggestion would be to make a watercooled reflector.
It would not be all that difficult to do.
You could either:
A. copy a solid reflector design, and have them machined out/fabbed from scratch. This is not gonna be cheap. The reflector would have channels for water to flow through much like a PC water block or radiator, you'd have fittings on the reflector, and plug your tubes into the reflector's fittings. This way, you get all the benefits of a reflector, except much better cooled.
B. The other option is to simply take pre made reflector, and attatch a large waterblock with thermal epoxy. Look at what they have for PCs, and you'll find something suitable.
C. Do the LED deal!!!! Take all that cash you were going to spend on this crazy project, and buy a shitload of LEDs that produce next to no heat, and use hardly any power.
Condensation will occur anywhere that there is a temperature differencial of ambient and sub ambient.
The most likely places are:
Your tubing/piping (imagine all of your tubing/piping runs dripping water, this is what can happen, no leak, but alot of condensation), or your housing, bulb, reflector unit.
Now you CAN get insulated tubing, but I'd recommend pre-made insulated piping. Don't bother insulating it yourself, it'll take a ton of time, and it still won't be perfect, you'll have leaks where you still get condensation.
The other option would be to have a temp monitor hooked to a heater that varies the water temp based on the external ambient air temp. Not aware of such a device that can do this, I'm sure it exists, but damn, it might cost a penny.
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Y
yamaha_1fan
Why cant they make a hood that is jacketed on the metal side, not the glass side? The water would still remove the heat buildup but not affect the light output.
I think the reason people are not thrilled about this idea is it just isnt cost effective and introduces a ton of problems. A large op is about making money, not being cool. The more complicated, the more possible problems down the road
You mentioned noise on 3 acres? Are you kidding me? I have 4 vortex fans, 3 2600 GPH pumps, a ton of air pumps, some smaller pumps, a 25,000 BTU A/C in my basement and I cant hear them, let alone my neighbors.
You would be better of just air venting the hoods and pumping the air out underground and finding a creative way to let it dissipate
I think the reason people are not thrilled about this idea is it just isnt cost effective and introduces a ton of problems. A large op is about making money, not being cool. The more complicated, the more possible problems down the road
You mentioned noise on 3 acres? Are you kidding me? I have 4 vortex fans, 3 2600 GPH pumps, a ton of air pumps, some smaller pumps, a 25,000 BTU A/C in my basement and I cant hear them, let alone my neighbors.
You would be better of just air venting the hoods and pumping the air out underground and finding a creative way to let it dissipate
Texas Kid
Member
Look on the site for "Best Coast Growers" to get all the information about the "Fresca Sol" product line..
I think the Fresca Sol is much more heavy duty and durable than the Liquid Lumens. I would much rather have precision machined peice of billet aluminum as an endcap that a peice of plastic, but that just me.
They also so a bunch of sample circuts for settin up the chiller circut and you can get by without one on single lights but you do need a surge reservoir with a pretty decent water volume in it. The coolest one actually runs into your simming pool and circulates through there so you get the water conditioner built right in..
www.bestcoastgrowers.com
Tex
I think the Fresca Sol is much more heavy duty and durable than the Liquid Lumens. I would much rather have precision machined peice of billet aluminum as an endcap that a peice of plastic, but that just me.
They also so a bunch of sample circuts for settin up the chiller circut and you can get by without one on single lights but you do need a surge reservoir with a pretty decent water volume in it. The coolest one actually runs into your simming pool and circulates through there so you get the water conditioner built right in..
www.bestcoastgrowers.com
Tex
2buds
Active member
Dropped in to see what you got going Uncle. Any test modules built? Could you really build an air to ground/geo heat exchanger that would keep temps in range? I've been playing under the lights tonight and it reminded me of how much heat a 1k bulb throws out. Just the radiant heat coming through the glass is a lot. My hoods/glass stay cool, as cool as the air outside that I draw through them yet teh heat from the light itself is still warm/hot. In an enclosed glass/water cooled device, do you still get the radiant heat from the light(light waves)? If the water cooling fixture doesn't work out you may consider just hanging your lights as most commercial grows end up and looking into a nice recirculating ventilation system using your geo for AC and building in a carbon filter media setup with your ventilation to knock down any odor your gonna get from large numbers of plants permeating the air with that succulent sweet stench of crystalline buds glistening under the lights. Just bouncing ideas as we are discussing 2 things I've never tried or been in the presence of and thats GEOthermal heat/ac and water cooling lights. But it interest me a lot. Heck if your air exchanger was plumbed up with a few valves you may just find already paying for it heat from your grow for your house in the winter. Good luck with whatever you decide. If at all possible I'd build a small scale setup if its cost effective before going asshole deep in your pocket for the big kahuna.
Peace
Peace
Uncle FREEDOM said:
Just a thought on the anti-algae, and control res..
1) Shouldn't you be using sterile distilled water in a closed loop. So you wont have to worry about that stuff.
2) I dont see how using the ground would be a good heatsink. The copper itself would be the heatsink. Wouldn't it be more economical to find some old radiators and bury those and use that as a heatsink instead large ammounts of copper pipe..
Just some thoughts...
Stealthy said:
Very true....
However, there are many things that we can do and use to make it safer..
Using ultrapure water, GFCI, Proper construction and materials..
Is there a need for watercooled lights?.. perhaps...
Elephunk
Member
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet... But this is another water cooled light.
For some reason I get an error page when I click on the upload photos button so you'll have to just visit the website. Scroll down a little bit until you see some pictures of this thing.
http://www.blunt.co.uk/hydroponics-shop-uk/hps-grow-lights/grow-light-kits.htm
For some reason I get an error page when I click on the upload photos button so you'll have to just visit the website. Scroll down a little bit until you see some pictures of this thing.
http://www.blunt.co.uk/hydroponics-shop-uk/hps-grow-lights/grow-light-kits.htm
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Hawk
Member
FWIW (probably not much), I just visited a hydro shop that had a water cooled light operating under some plants. I'm almost sure it was this unit:
It appeared to simply recirculate water from a 55 gal drum. I didn't look all that closely at exactly how it was plumbed though. I put my hand on one of the lines and noticed it was warm. That must be the exit line, I thought. So then I felt the other line and to my surprise it was even hotter. There was definitely no "cool" water being pumped through there. It was hard to judge the speed of the water since there were no moving bubbles or anything but it didn't seem to be rushing through there with much speed at all. Regardless, I touched the glass and the system seemed to be doing it's job.
If my recall is accurate, I think I could have held my hand there indefinitely without discomfort although I didn't really try. Warm? Yes. Hot? No. I walked away with the impression it was an effective cooling system. But I did not ask any questions about it. I'll look more closely next time.
It appeared to simply recirculate water from a 55 gal drum. I didn't look all that closely at exactly how it was plumbed though. I put my hand on one of the lines and noticed it was warm. That must be the exit line, I thought. So then I felt the other line and to my surprise it was even hotter. There was definitely no "cool" water being pumped through there. It was hard to judge the speed of the water since there were no moving bubbles or anything but it didn't seem to be rushing through there with much speed at all. Regardless, I touched the glass and the system seemed to be doing it's job.
If my recall is accurate, I think I could have held my hand there indefinitely without discomfort although I didn't really try. Warm? Yes. Hot? No. I walked away with the impression it was an effective cooling system. But I did not ask any questions about it. I'll look more closely next time.
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Not sure if this has been mentined but alot of this stuff is used in salt water aquariums. They are often throwing 400W MH just 2 inches above the salt water. Heating the water can kill the fish so chillers are often used. DIY with a small refrigerator and tubing running between fridege and tank. Anyways might be worth reading a bit about as the salt water people are maassively into this kinda thing and lots of literature on it.
GrowerGoneWild said:
#2 wouldn't work, copper tubing running in U shape (if going vertically) or just around in a cool pattern (horizontal) would be 10000000x better than burying a radiator. Radiators are designed with the idea that there is going to be air being pushed/pulled through them. it would be a complete waste to bury them.
look towards how the geothermal heating/cooling units work for homes.
Those things would be the ideal solution.
get a 10 ton geothermal system installed while your house is being built. After all my research, I found out that you need ~400ft(or was it meters) of copper tubing per ton of heating required. You also ALWAYS base your needs (for your home) on the amount of heating required (80%)
4000 ft of copper tubing isn't cheap. geo systems can range anywhere from 10k upwards i believe. (not including installation and copper cost)
of course using copper is assuming you go the direct exchange method, personally i don't like the non direct method and feel that you'd end up losing a lot of efficiency going with the non direct method.
