lets talk em1, bim, imo, and any other benificial bacs n fungis n effective micro org

[ReikoX]

Related Threads

Related Threads

I've just gotten into this, so I've been doing a bit of research.


Here is the website with Gil's Recipes.
Here is a great thread on Lactobacillus by JayKush.
Here is another thread on fermented plant extracts (FPE).

 

[HAZE FIEND]

lacto isn't the same as em1,
em1 contains lacto bacillus cultures AND others it's generally more diverse of a consortium of microbes than you are going to get by separating curds and whey using rice wash.....

not to say lacto is insufficient, or insuperior to em1, but em1 is more diverse of a mix
so yes, to say em1 = lacto is false, imo the terms should not be interchanged - better to be specific about what we really are innoculating with or using to ferment.

imo these cultures are the basic building blocks of the whole natural farming tech.
first comes lacto/em1 ("serum")
one gallon of serum can be multiplied in both liquid AND solid state fermentations.

FPJ/FPE (fermented plant juice / extract) are liquid fermentations based in water.
bokashi is a solid state ferment, because it is based in a sold form (traditionally grains)
when making either of these you only use a little bit of serum, but it multiplies as you let it sit/ferment.
in liquids; a few cups of serum and equal part of molasses a trash can full of water and fermentables (accumulator plants like alfalfa, plantain, horsetail, cannabis; animal byproducts like bone meal, bat guano, insect frass; and minerals like azamaz, rock dusts, native sand) if you are making a fermentation, if not just serum, water and sugar - seal it up and let it sit...
in solid state you just use a grain or carbon source instead of liquid, i like wheat bran mixed with rice hulls (3:1).
OR a bag of grain to having 50 lbs of innoculated grain

yep thanks bro exactly what i thought em1 is, a mixture of the 3, lacto, purple non sulpher mold, n yiest... like what u get when u finish infecting your rice water n then the consentrated mostly lacto is em4 according to one site iv been researching off, n then u can make all the extracts n imo n bmo etc from that huh cant wait to experiment now..

 

[Avinash.miles]

i look at it like ; em1 is a product name, it's a proprietary mix of cultures

what we make at home are lactic acid bacteria cultures, if you add some yeast for those cultures, or let it brew in the sun, or whatever it's still our own thing - designed to emulate em1.

my understanding is that higher numbers (imo2, imo3/ em2 em3) are specific multiplications of the original culture, whether thats solid "imo/bim" indigenous microbes or liquid "em".

look into quantum lite, quantum vsc, and quantum hsc - they are liquids containing fulvic, humic, baccillus AND the R. Palustris PNSB at up to 2%. i use this in addition to em1 - i dont think there are ways to multiply it as easily as em1 tho, at least haven't found any yet.

those are great links btw

 

[ReikoX]

Now that makes sense!

 

[HAZE FIEND]

Hmm, I thought EM1 was a single type of culture. A yeast culture would be an EM1 too. I thought the EM4 was four types of culture; yeast, lactobacillus, phototropic bacteria, and others that co-exist. I cant find the reference at the moment, but regardless, they are all EM.

nope em1 is the mix of 3 bro, but one of the 3 IS lacto, and yiest, n purple non sulpher mold, like what u get in the rice wash part, and pure lacto what we make mostly concentrated lactobacilis is actually em4 but like u say they are all effective micro organisms, the lacto is just the main one we want to do all the good organic magic that it does breaking down foods in soils n eating bad bacteria n out competing n filling in any spots on plant tissue n roots n soil so that pathogens cant colonise an already benificial bacteria occupied plant n environment

 

[HAZE FIEND]

i look at it like ; em1 is a product name, it's a proprietary mix of cultures

what we make at home are lactic acid bacteria cultures, if you add some yeast for those cultures, or let it brew in the sun, or whatever it's still our own thing - designed to emulate em1.

my understanding is that higher numbers (imo2, imo3/ em2 em3) are specific multiplications of the original culture, whether thats solid "imo/bim" indigenous microbes or liquid "em".

look into quantum lite, quantum vsc, and quantum hsc - they are liquids containing fulvic, humic, baccillus AND the R. Palustris PNSB at up to 2%. i use this in addition to em1 - i dont think there are ways to multiply it as easily as em1 tho, at least haven't found any yet.

those are great links btw

yep well kinda.. as everytime u re multiply it with more fresh fruit n re ferment it with different additions, it goes up a number n stage.. basicaly what i understand is that when i was doing research on em1 i came across another way of making with decomposing fruit n water in a compost bin, n here is a little bit that explains the stages n the differences between em1 ,2,3 and 4

EM is a blend of beneficial microorganisms developed by Teruo Higa, a professor at the University of the Ryukyu in Japan. These microorganisms improve the health of the soil, the plants, water and humans by breaking down organic matter in the soil, fixing nitrogen from the air, and feeding and protecting plants and animals. The organisms included are primarily yeast and pro-biotic photosynthetic bacteria and lactic acid bacteria. Buying EM is quite expensive, and you actually can make yourself at very minimal cost.

In Asia, they even further process the EM into 4 types of EM (EM1, EM2, EM3 and EM4) and become much more effective and best depending what you will use the EM for. Here is simple way to make your own EM.
EM1 is the original trademark product and contains a group of bacteria primarily lactic acid bacteria (lactic acid produced in metabolism), yeast, and photosynthetic bacteria. EM1 contains only three types of microorganisms in ideal proportions.
EM2 is a mixture of more microorganisms, which is about 10 types and 80 species. Microorganisms, like many in EM1, also exist together as a consortium. The main microbes that exist in the EM2 is a photosynthetic bacteria, fungi, yeasts or molds, and so on. Made in liquid culture medium with pH 7 and stored at pH 8.5. The population of microorganisms in the solution is about 10 (9) or 1 billion cells per gram of fluid.
EM3 consists of approximately 90% of bacteria photosynthesis and the rest are of other microorganisms. EM3 was cultured and stored at pH 8.5. Microorganism population in the fluid is also about 10 (9) or 1 billion cells per gram of fluid.
EM4 consisted of 90% Lactobacillus spp. and microorganisms that produce lactic acid more. EM is made by culture in liquid medium was acidic pH of 4.5. The number of microorganisms retained the same as above, ie 1 billion per gram of fluid.
That’s the main difference between EM1, EM2, EM3, and EM4. So in principle, the differences caused by the content of microorganisms of each type of EM is. The one that mostly used in Asia to boost farming and fisheries is the EM4.
Materials:
- Vegetables waste, especially beans
- Fruit skin peels (papaya, banana, rambutan, mango, etc..)
- Cheap Bran
- Brown sugar
- Rice water (the water you use to wash rice before you cook it)
Method:
- Mixed vegetable waste, fruit peels and bran. Place the instance in a bucket or container. Close and stir occasionally, leave for one week to rot and then it become EM (EM1). EM stands for Effective microorganisms that will accelerate the composting process.
- EM1 liquid waste is mixed with vegetable and fruit peels. Then keep again for a week. It will develop a new liquid called EM2.
- EM2 fluid mixed with bran, brown sugar and rice water and keep for about a week, it will become EM3.
- Lets stand for about another week without adding anything. It will be EM4.

 

[HAZE FIEND]

anyone that has any additional info feel free to chip in as it would be good for us all to fully understand this wonderful beneficial world of microlife

 

[HAZE FIEND]

so how about any info from anyone else with experience developing fermented plant extracts from our lacto? or bim's / imo's? reikoX's fish fert 1 was great! everyone should know how easy n cheap it is n how much better it is to just make your own plant ferts/enzymes/beneficial bacterias

 

[Avinash.miles]

so what specific fermentations beyond the lacto serum /em1 have you done hazefiend?

i've done a bunch from kelp, carrot, papaya, flowers like calendula, sunflower heads,... for bloom
for veg alfalfa, clover, cannabis fan leaves, stalks & roots
or just random stuff for all around use, once made one with kitchen scraps only, lots of onion, pepper seeds, veggie parts, potato skins
used the finished fermentation at dillutions of about 1 cup per 5 gallon bucket of water

also doing mineral extractions with native sand and specific rock dusts, letting those ferment longer than the fruit ones

insect frass is up next on the list....
AND more IMO/BIM

 

[HAZE FIEND]

so what specific fermentations beyond the lacto serum /em1 have you done hazefiend?

i've done a bunch from kelp, carrot, papaya, flowers like calendula, sunflower heads,... for bloom
for veg alfalfa, clover, cannabis fan leaves, stalks & roots
or just random stuff for all around use, once made one with kitchen scraps only, lots of onion, pepper seeds, veggie parts, potato skins
used the finished fermentation at dillutions of about 1 cup per 5 gallon bucket of water

also doing mineral extractions with native sand and specific rock dusts, letting those ferment longer than the fruit ones

insect frass is up next on the list....
AND more IMO/BIM

none as of yet but i would like to try out some bim's/imo's soon by going and finding a very nice rich active spot in the woodlands all around me, iv been watching alot of brian mcgraths vids who is a leading expert westerner in all these subjects that traveled to phillipines n learned from gil n the local farmers all over those parts n from what i see it is pretty simple to do, u can check him out on you tube on his wifes account hiedi mcgrath lots of very informative clear vids.. also gonna see about making my own seaweed extracts, and like u seem to be experimentin with too some fermented plant/fruit extracts as iv read very good things of them.. and already use alfalfa n comfrey n insect frass n worm casts so will be nice to be able to use em in a more absorbable processable way n see the results.. thanks for chiming in with some great info n examples of fruits n materials can use n at the right times bro!

 

[HAZE FIEND]

so what specific fermentations beyond the lacto serum /em1 have you done hazefiend?

i've done a bunch from kelp, carrot, papaya, flowers like calendula, sunflower heads,... for bloom
for veg alfalfa, clover, cannabis fan leaves, stalks & roots
or just random stuff for all around use, once made one with kitchen scraps only, lots of onion, pepper seeds, veggie parts, potato skins
used the finished fermentation at dillutions of about 1 cup per 5 gallon bucket of water

also doing mineral extractions with native sand and specific rock dusts, letting those ferment longer than the fruit ones

insect frass is up next on the list....
AND more IMO/BIM

i hear carrot papaya and i cant remember the other fruit or ingredient but combined the 3 are meant to make an absolutley amazing all in 1 fermented plant extract left to ferment with some lacto in the mix for 2 wks i think n then u have an amazing all in 1 bloom fert! so you defo are on the right path there bro maybe it was the kelp that was the missin ingredient i cant remember gonna av to find the site..

 

[Avinash.miles]

for sure, also wanted to drop a line about using more complex carb sources than rice in your original wash to capture native bacteria from the air.
i've used pasta water, bean water and potato water all alone and in combination with rice water with no ill effects; i'm guessing there are subtle (or not so subtle) differences to them. they all stink, but slightly different.

 

[HAZE FIEND]

for sure, also wanted to drop a line about using more complex carb sources than rice in your original wash to capture native bacteria from the air.
i've used pasta water, bean water and potato water all alone and in combination with rice water with no ill effects; i'm guessing there are subtle (or not so subtle) differences to them. they all stink, but slightly different.

ok very cool i never even thought about that tbo.. very interesting.. did it produce better lacto at any noticible degree like even happyer or lusher or more vigerous plants?

 

[HAZE FIEND]

for sure, also wanted to drop a line about using more complex carb sources than rice in your original wash to capture native bacteria from the air.
i've used pasta water, bean water and potato water all alone and in combination with rice water with no ill effects; i'm guessing there are subtle (or not so subtle) differences to them. they all stink, but slightly different.

im not sure if i remember rightly also but i think that brian n gil recommend NOT to use more complex carb sources for some reason i think? i might be wrong but i think it takes longer for the bacterias to colonise the carb water as they have to process the more complex carbs more before can use em as food n be able to start populating the carb water? i could be wrong tho gonna have to re check what iv been reading n watching.. if u have seen just as good or better effects tho with more complex carbs then guess its not that much of a prob huh bro? rice n pastas carbs are prob pretty similar anyways no?

 

[ReikoX]

insect frass is up next on the list....
AND more IMO/BIM

I was reading the chitosan thread wondering if this would be a reasonable and safe way to make it. My thought was that as the bacteria break down the sugar creating a lactic acid, that acid would then dissolve the frass into a soluable form. I was going to use shrimp shells and try it myself.

 

[HAZE FIEND]

I was reading the chitosan thread wondering if this would be a reasonable and safe way to make it. My thought was that as the bacteria break down the sugar creating a lactic acid, that acid would then dissolve the frass into a soluable form. I was going to use shrimp shells and try it myself.

defo let us know how it turns out bro thats what its all about.. experimenting.. see the possabiltys are endless once you have some lacto there..

 

[Avinash.miles]

I was reading the chitosan thread wondering if this would be a reasonable and safe way to make it. My thought was that as the bacteria break down the sugar creating a lactic acid, that acid would then dissolve the frass into a soluable form. I was going to use shrimp shells and try it myself.

i'm under the impression that even just soaking the frsss gets you some chitinase / chitosan enzyme in the mix
but i figure the lacto extrac will be even more effective, at least different

 

[HAZE FIEND]

i'm under the impression that even just soaking the frsss gets you some chitinase / chitosan enzyme in the mix
but i figure the lacto extrac will be even more effective, at least different

yea thats what i do usually just add it to the 48 hr act tea but hopefully the lacto shud make it more quickly broken down n faster more efficient reactions/results good thinkin.. also has anyone heard of how well lacto n other EM's n beni bac's collinises bamboo n can anyone remember what beni bac it encourages to produce?.. pretty sure i came across it when lookin into BIM n IMO but cant remember the exact specifics but it defo was benificial.. knew i loved using bamboo steaks for some reason.. gonna have to find it again now.. thanks again guys for chippin in n building the knowledge

 

[ReikoX]

i'm under the impression that even just soaking the frsss gets you some chitinase / chitosan enzyme in the mix
but i figure the lacto extrac will be even more effective, at least different

They call it chitosan lactate, is that because they dissolve it in lactic acid? I was thinking about using malted barley as my sugar source as it has a lot of enzymes (chitinase being one of them). I think there is some potential here, now where is my shrimp feast?

 

[MileHighLife]

I've just recently started brewing up my own EM1 as well but I started with a culture from Tera Ganix and am using their recipe for Activated EM1. I also have a batch of what Tera Ganix calls "EM5" that just finished fermenting so I'll be alternating between neem/karanja and EM5 for IPM. Here's the basic recipe for EM5:

1 part EM1
1 part Molasses
1 part white or apple cider vinegar
1 part distilled alcohol
20 parts water
Add plant material with known pesticide properties (I used red peppers and chives from my garden and I'm going to add neem cake next time around).